The 2022 Draft

[Whatever]

(01-13-2023, 10:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: To be fair, Britt has been a really solid tackler, but has had some issues in coverage.  Also got dinged (PFF-wise) pretty badly for a couple BS penaties.  As a rookie CB to start in the league, I think he has been a pleasant surprise.  People forget what Leon Hall looked like as a rookie.

Carter gets some really low PFF scores (though he has been improving throughout the year) on tackling.  He seems to be in position but tries to arm tackle instead of driving through with his body.  He is getting better and I like the energy I see.  He has that relentless gene.  DT, IMHO, is the hardest position to make an impact as a rookie.

Volson has been a steal.  Starting from day 1 and a solid contributor.  

Don't forget also, the one major flaw in PFF to me:  They don't take in to account the level of competition.  I think ALL these scores are significantly higher if they had the weak ass Chiefs schedule (playing the rest of the AFC west twice and the AFC south.  Turd soup).

Have big hopes for Anderson.  Loved him at Toledo.  Stood out.  Has incredible length, speed, and for a bigger guy, change-of-direction.  

Here's to pick 32 this year being a stud OT, and getting some depth at CB, WR, DE, and DT.  

Out of 484 qualifying players, CTB has the 74th worst Missed Tackle % per ProFootball Reference.  I have no idea where this myth that he's a good tackler comes from.  

As far as the OP goes, a lot of young guys have shown flashes, but they've all been mediocre on the whole.  Next year will be a much better indicator.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-13-2023, 01:17 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Honestly I’m not sure if people should be giving Hill a rough grade. I think he’s the future at FS, but I was hoping he would have made a few plays similar to his preseason play. He looked like a man amongst boys

Bates has played so well, he could not get on the field much to really evaluate 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-13-2023, 02:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: Out of 484 qualifying players, CTB has the 74th worst Missed Tackle % per ProFootball Reference.  I have no idea where this myth that he's a good tackler comes from.  

As far as the OP goes, a lot of young guys have shown flashes, but they've all been mediocre on the whole.  Next year will be a much better indicator.

Eh, from the eye test, that just doesn't sound right. But I would have to go back and watch all these missed tackles you speak of.

I have seen CTB knock big RB's and QB's backwards like a mean mutha. The so called Tannehill run for a first down for instance.

Still don't think that was a 1st, sometimes I think the refs use forward progress too leniently at times.

Also 74th worst means there are a lot of players worse than him. I don't know, CTB's tackling sure looks good to me when I watch him.

Unlike Logan a few times this season where a TE has taken him for a ride and I am a big Logan Wilson fan, maybe the biggest. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-13-2023, 03:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, from the eye test, that just doesn't sound right. But I would have to go back and watch all these missed tackles you speak of.

I have seen CTB knock big RB's and QB's backwards like a mean mutha. The so called Tannehill run for a first down for instance.

Still don't think that was a 1st, sometimes I think the refs use forward progress too leniently at times.

Also 74th worst means there are a lot of players worse than him. I don't know, CTB's tackling sure looks good to me when I watch him.

Unlike Logan a few times this season where a TE has taken him for a ride and I am a big Logan Wilson fan, maybe the biggest. 

Whatever is on my ignore list.  I see the argument, though, because you quoted him.  People that don't really understand football look only at a rank of a measurement against their peers as gospel.  CTB might have missed some tackles, but he is a HITTER and he is a willing tackler.  How many tackles did you see Dre Kirkpatrick make?  People that know the game see CTB come off his man and aid in run support and help minimize any gains.  He also does a good job using the sideline and steering a player back to help.  Those things aren't easy and they aren't obvious to the average fan.

There is a reason, though, that the Bengals have won 8 straight game against some of the heaviest rushing teams (Atlanta, Carolina, Baltimore, Tennessee, Cleveland, and New England) and CTB's rush defense is a part of it.  

The other thing about the overall group being just average or less, these are rookies that are gaining valuable experience in year 1.  I am amazed how quickly people forget what Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, and others were as rookies.  

[Whatever]

(01-13-2023, 03:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, from the eye test, that just doesn't sound right. But I would have to go back and watch all these missed tackles you speak of.

I have seen CTB knock big RB's and QB's backwards like a mean mutha. The so called Tannehill run for a first down for instance.

Still don't think that was a 1st, sometimes I think the refs use forward progress too leniently at times.

Also 74th worst means there are a lot of players worse than him. I don't know, CTB's tackling sure looks good to me when I watch him.

Unlike Logan a few times this season where a TE has taken him for a ride and I am a big Logan Wilson fan, maybe the biggest. 

CTB makes some good hits, but he whiffs.  A lot.  Often, guys who go for big hits whiff because they play out of control.  He's also very poor at understanding leverage, which gets him out of position.  He should improve at that with time.  He has obvious speed to go with good size and physicality, so I'm hopeful for his future, but right now he plays like a kid who got by on being a better athlete than everyone else in college and needs to work on playing solid assignment football.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dax Hill -- not enough data
Cam Taylor-Britt -- boom or bust, but handling business decently well
Zach Carter -- started slow, but finding himself nicely now
Cordell Volson -- probably the best pick the Bengals made
Tycen Anderson -- injured and incomplete
Jeffrey Gunter -- flashed in the preseason and blocked a kick

Overall it's a reasonably promising group.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-13-2023, 05:49 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Whatever is on my ignore list.  I see the argument, though, because you quoted him.  People that don't really understand football look only at a rank of a measurement against their peers as gospel.  CTB might have missed some tackles, but he is a HITTER and he is a willing tackler.  How many tackles did you see Dre Kirkpatrick make?  People that know the game see CTB come off his man and aid in run support and help minimize any gains.  He also does a good job using the sideline and steering a player back to help.  Those things aren't easy and they aren't obvious to the average fan.

There is a reason, though, that the Bengals have won 8 straight game against some of the heaviest rushing teams (Atlanta, Carolina, Baltimore, Tennessee, Cleveland, and New England) and CTB's rush defense is a part of it.  

The other thing about the overall group being just average or less, these are rookies that are gaining valuable experience in year 1.  I am amazed how quickly people forget what Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, and others were as rookies.  

Yeah, I love the way CTB hits and the passion he plays with. I can handle a whiff here and there even if I don't remember any.

You would think I would remember these missed tackles, being as I love watching the guy play. So true about him being a rookie and
playing as well as he has. Whit and Leon struggled as rookies, true. Actually pretty crazy how well Cordell has played and being from 
such a small college, his good play has surprised me more than anybody without question.

(01-13-2023, 06:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: CTB makes some good hits, but he whiffs.  A lot.  Often, guys who go for big hits whiff because they play out of control.  He's also very poor at understanding leverage, which gets him out of position.  He should improve at that with time.  He has obvious speed to go with good size and physicality, so I'm hopeful for his future, but right now he plays like a kid who got by on being a better athlete than everyone else in college and needs to work on playing solid assignment football.

Color me surprised as I have watched every game and don't remember many whiffs from CTB at all. Like you said, he should 
improve over time if this is a real thing. The weakness of CTB coming out was double moves and playing too aggressive, I have
seen this from him if we are looking at his weakness. I don't think it is tackling from watching him play, he tackles low with good
leverage and lowers his shoulder while keeping his head up. That is technically sound tackling.

(01-13-2023, 06:31 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Dax Hill -- not enough data
Cam Taylor-Britt -- boom or bust, but handling business decently well
Zach Carter -- started slow, but finding himself nicely now
Cordell Volson -- probably the best pick the Bengals made
Tycen Anderson -- injured and incomplete
Jeffrey Gunter -- flashed in the preseason and blocked a kick

Overall it's a reasonably promising group.

Well said, promising to say the least.

[CottonHill]

(01-13-2023, 06:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: CTB makes some good hits, but he whiffs.  A lot.  Often, guys who go for big hits whiff because they play out of control.  He's also very poor at understanding leverage, which gets him out of position.  He should improve at that with time.  He has obvious speed to go with good size and physicality, so I'm hopeful for his future, but right now he plays like a kid who got by on being a better athlete than everyone else in college and needs to work on playing solid assignment football.

The tackles CTB misses are really tough chances. He’s really aggressive and good at reading runs early and coming out of coverage to make a play. That leads to some missed tackles, but at the same time, it still affects the play. Can’t remember the game, but he missed one that looked horrible, but he was full tilt downhill…still made the guy cut inside and got swallowed by traffic. He’s a lot better at getting off receivers blocks than a lot of boundary guys.

Also, he has gotten missed a few times but he’s been in position almost every time. Those ball skills will come.

This year is a complete positive from him. He’s still getting comfortable in the secondary. We should be much more worried that Dax hasn’t made his way into any type of rotation.

[EatonFan]

Anderson just came off IR.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-13-2023, 08:33 PM)CottonHill Wrote: The tackles CTB misses are really tough chances. He’s really aggressive and good at reading runs early and coming out of coverage to make a play. That leads to some missed tackles, but at the same time, it still affects the play. Can’t remember the game, but he missed one that looked horrible, but he was full tilt downhill…still made the guy cut inside and got swallowed by traffic. He’s a lot better at getting off receivers blocks than a lot of boundary guys.

Also, he has gotten missed a few times but he’s been in position almost every time. Those ball skills will come.

This year is a complete positive from him. He’s still getting comfortable in the secondary. We should be much more worried that Dax hasn’t made his way into any type of rotation.

Nice post CottonHill. Even if he does miss a tackle he sure isn't making it easy on the runner that is for damn sure.

Love the way CTB plays, we would be a lesser Defense if he didn't play on Sunday night. You cannot say that about many rookies 
going into their first Playoff game in the NFL.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(01-13-2023, 03:06 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Bates has played so well, he could not get on the field much to really evaluate 

Volson might be the best player selected from the draft, But I wouldn’t be surprised if Hill becomes an immediate impact player next year. I really feel like he was the best player on the board when the bengals picked

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-13-2023, 11:12 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Volson might be the best player selected from the draft, But I wouldn’t be surprised if Hill becomes an immediate impact player next year. I really feel like he was the best player on the board when the bengals picked

Same here, would be very surprised if Dax Hill doesn't become one of the best Safeties in the NFL or just overall Secondary players.

Great tackler with great coverage and is very smart. Crazy versatile, as Essex said, the guys in front of him...

Namely Bates have just played so well.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-13-2023, 11:02 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I would agree with this. You get a 2-3 guys each draft that end up as above average players then you can call that draft a success. 

I read an article about 10 years ago where a team executive said that when a team drafts two starters, you've had a good draft. Three starters means you've had a great draft. Four or more players is an unbelievable draft.

[kalibengal]

(01-13-2023, 05:49 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Whatever is on my ignore list.  I see the argument, though, because you quoted him.  People that don't really understand football look only at a rank of a measurement against their peers as gospel.  CTB might have missed some tackles, but he is a HITTER and he is a willing tackler.  How many tackles did you see Dre Kirkpatrick make?  People that know the game see CTB come off his man and aid in run support and help minimize any gains.  He also does a good job using the sideline and steering a player back to help.  Those things aren't easy and they aren't obvious to the average fan.

There is a reason, though, that the Bengals have won 8 straight game against some of the heaviest rushing teams (Atlanta, Carolina, Baltimore, Tennessee, Cleveland, and New England) and CTB's rush defense is a part of it.  

The other thing about the overall group being just average or less, these are rookies that are gaining valuable experience in year 1.  I am amazed how quickly people forget what Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, and others were as rookies.  

Remember WJIII AKA "willow" and his avoidance to tackling? Ill take CTB all day over that guy. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-13-2023, 07:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, I love the way CTB hits and the passion he plays with. I can handle a whiff here and there even if I don't remember any.

You would think I would remember these missed tackles, being as I love watching the guy play. So true about him being a rookie and
playing as well as he has. Whit and Leon struggled as rookies, true. Actually pretty crazy how well Cordell has played and being from 
such a small college, his good play has surprised me more than anybody without question.


Color me surprised as I have watched every game and don't remember many whiffs from CTB at all. Like you said, he should 
improve over time if this is a real thing. The weakness of CTB coming out was double moves and playing too aggressive, I have
seen this from him if we are looking at his weakness. I don't think it is tackling from watching him play, he tackles low with good
leverage and lowers his shoulder while keeping his head up. That is technically sound tackling.



Well said, promising to say the least.

CTB was the one that finished off that 4th and 1 play the Rats ran with a 300 LB fullback that Ossai blew up and caused the RB to stutter step and CTB finished him off from the side.  No way in hell does a Dre Kirkpatrick or many other CBs we have had (WJIII) make that play and it was a huge stuff.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2023, 03:17 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I read an article about 10 years ago where a team executive said that when a team drafts two starters, you've had a good draft. Three starters means you've had a great draft. Four or more players is an unbelievable draft.

And there is no doubt Dax Hill is a starter.  Lou is just adamant about bringing him along the right way.  

I am not going to say he will be a pro bowler or anything at this point of course, but he did show ball hawking flashes in the preseason and I think what even better fits this team's mold of their desired players is he has incredible position versatility.  

That often goes overlooked, but position versatility has been a cornerstone of Lou's defense.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-13-2023, 11:12 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Volson might be the best player selected from the draft, But I wouldn’t be surprised if Hill becomes an immediate impact player next year. I really feel like he was the best player on the board when the bengals picked

Yep, and I think his growth and development really benefitted from being able to sit (for the most part) and watch Bates and Bell.  I have a feeling the Bengals will find a way to extend Bell, if nothing else for his knowledge.  You don't want to let two of the brain trust on defense go.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-13-2023, 08:33 PM)CottonHill Wrote: The tackles CTB misses are really tough chances. He’s really aggressive and good at reading runs early and coming out of coverage to make a play. That leads to some missed tackles, but at the same time, it still affects the play. Can’t remember the game, but he missed one that looked horrible, but he was full tilt downhill…still made the guy cut inside and got swallowed by traffic. He’s a lot better at getting off receivers blocks than a lot of boundary guys.

Also, he has gotten missed a few times but he’s been in position almost every time. Those ball skills will come.

This year is a complete positive from him. He’s still getting comfortable in the secondary. We should be much more worried that Dax hasn’t made his way into any type of rotation.

Nice post and welcome...haven't seen anything else from you but like new folks joining the board.  This is a great place that is expertly ran and we have a ton of great fans on here with great perspectives.  

[dr tarzan]

(01-14-2023, 12:32 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Remember WJIII AKA "willow" and his avoidance to tackling? Ill take CTB all day over that guy. 

"Whiff" was Dre Kirkpatrick's middle name.   CTB is light years ahead of pansy.

[*pally*]

There is an article in the Enquirer about Duke Tobin (who will be overlooked for Executive of the Year again).  For me this was the money quote

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2023/01/13/duke-tobin-bengals-director-player-personnel/69792572007/

Quote:“As Mike (Brown) has maybe backed up a little bit,” Bengals special teams coordinator Darrin Simmons said, “Duke has taken off and really excelled.”

Mike has become less involved in player personnel decisions and suddenly the drafts improve