The 2022 Draft

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-14-2023, 01:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: CTB was the one that finished off that 4th and 1 play the Rats ran with a 300 LB fullback that Ossai blew up and caused the RB to stutter step and CTB finished him off from the side.  No way in hell does a Dre Kirkpatrick or many other CBs we have had (WJIII) make that play and it was a huge stuff.  

Yes, great play by Ossai and CTB. Love these guys for the future. Ole HarleyDog sure would approve of your Kirkpatrick hate lol

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2023, 03:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, great play by Ossai and CTB. Love these guys for the future. Ole HarleyDog sure would approve of your Kirkpatrick hate lol

Kirkpatrick always has a special place in my heart for one of the most entertaining games of my lifetime, the primetime win over Manning and the Broncos where he had two picks.  That being said, he was not made for the AFC North.  

[Soonerpeace]

PFF grades I used to like but I seriously don’t know how are record is 12-4 according to them it should be 4-12.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-14-2023, 04:13 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Kirkpatrick always has a special place in my heart for one of the most entertaining games of my lifetime, the primetime win over Manning and the Broncos where he had two picks.  That being said, he was not made for the AFC North.  

Was a pretty big red flag when we heard in the first OTAs or whatever that he was "learning to backpedal". Like wait, our first round cornerback doesn't know how to backpedal? Lol

If that wasn't hard enough to come back from, he'll probably forever be best remembered as the guy who got his head dribbled like a basketball.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-13-2023, 02:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: Out of 484 qualifying players, CTB has the 74th worst Missed Tackle % per ProFootball Reference.  I have no idea where this myth that he's a good tackler comes from.  

As far as the OP goes, a lot of young guys have shown flashes, but they've all been mediocre on the whole.  Next year will be a much better indicator.

It is not just the percentage, it is the amount of tackles he is in on. It is like a shortstop in baseball. One guy never makes an error but has a very limited range, so a lot of balls roll by him into the outfield. The other guy has a better range and gets to more balls than the other guy, but makes some errors on them. But he also makes a lot of outs on balls the first guy never touches. In comparing the two, it is not a big deal the 2nd guy makes a couple more errors, especially if most/all of them are on balls the first guy does not get to anyway. Plus, his chances are tougher. The first guy only ever makes routine plays.

In my view, CTB puts himself into position to make more tackles than your average CB. And it is not just me or a few here. CTB played 591 snaps this year. Apple played 908. Apple played over 50% more snaps than CTB. Wanna know who had more tackles? CTB. 55 to 49. And this is not an Apple thing. Chido played 471. 80% of CTBs total (roughly 48/60, or 4/5ths). He had 35 tackles. 63% of CTB's total. Proof meet pudding. Yeah, I get Chido is better in coverage, but we play a lot of zone, and that number is significant. And Apple's is huge. 

And I will say some of CTB's misses were on plays where he made the right play. A gamble on a tackle to stop a guy on 3rd down where a big play was not a possibility. He isn't making dumb gambles, trying to make impossible plays and giving up huge plays. He is not overthrowing first with two outs and allowing a guy to score from second. His sense of when to gamble is good. 

Now, he is still raw in coverage. But that play vs Baltimore last week in the end zone was spectacular. Quick change of direction to stick to the guy crossing in front of him. And a great play on the ball. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-13-2023, 08:33 PM)CottonHill Wrote: The tackles CTB misses are really tough chances. He’s really aggressive and good at reading runs early and coming out of coverage to make a play. That leads to some missed tackles, but at the same time, it still affects the play. Can’t remember the game, but he missed one that looked horrible, but he was full tilt downhill…still made the guy cut inside and got swallowed by traffic. He’s a lot better at getting off receivers blocks than a lot of boundary guys.

Also, he has gotten missed a few times but he’s been in position almost every time. Those ball skills will come.

This year is a complete positive from him. He’s still getting comfortable in the secondary. We should be much more worried that Dax hasn’t made his way into any type of rotation.

Great post.  But on the Hill part, remember CTB did not "make his way" into the rotation." Chido got hurt. 

Yes, there was one game where he played a half for Apple. Even so, taking some snaps from Apple (or Flowers in 4 corners) is a lower bar than Bates or Bell. Or Pratt (if we are playing 3 safeties). 

[Bengalitis]

Proof that you don't need a top notch QB to win in the playoffs.

#252 BROCK PURDY

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-15-2023, 12:34 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: It is not just the percentage, it is the amount of tackles he is in on. It is like a shortstop in baseball. One guy never makes an error but has a very limited range, so a lot of balls roll by him into the outfield. The other guy has a better range and gets to more balls than the other guy, but makes some errors on them. But he also makes a lot of outs on balls the first guy never touches. In comparing the two, it is not a big deal the 2nd guy makes a couple more errors, especially if most/all of them are on balls the first guy does not get to anyway. Plus, his chances are tougher. The first guy only ever makes routine plays.

In my view, CTB puts himself into position to make more tackles than your average CB. And it is not just me or a few here. CTB played 591 snaps this year. Apple played 908. Apple played over 50% more snaps than CTB. Wanna know who had more tackles? CTB. 55 to 49. And this is not an Apple thing. Chido played 471. 80% of CTBs total (roughly 48/60, or 4/5ths). He had 35 tackles. 63% of CTB's total. Proof meet pudding. Yeah, I get Chido is better in coverage, but we play a lot of zone, and that number is significant. And Apple's is huge. 

And I will say some of CTB's misses were on plays where he made the right play. A gamble on a tackle to stop a guy on 3rd down where a big play was not a possibility. He isn't making dumb gambles, trying to make impossible plays and giving up huge plays. He is not overthrowing first with two outs and allowing a guy to score from second. His sense of when to gamble is good. 

Now, he is still raw in coverage. But that play vs Baltimore last week in the end zone was spectacular. Quick change of direction to stick to the guy crossing in front of him. And a great play on the ball. 

Wow.  Facts.  Whatever's head might implode.  But when you watch the games, CTB stands out as a physical hitter and gets around the ball.  I kind of like his back story about being a mike vick-like QB.  He has great speed and I think his game will only improve.  Seems to have the right head on his shoulders and has no delusions that he has arrived.  He works his butt off.  Team loves him.  Coaches love him.  Would I rather have Sauce?  Yes.  Do I think CTB can be a quality starter for years to come?  Also, yes.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-15-2023, 12:34 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: In my view, CTB puts himself into position to make more tackles than your average CB. And it is not just me or a few here. CTB played 591 snaps this year. Apple played 908. Apple played over 50% more snaps than CTB. Wanna know who had more tackles? CTB. 55 to 49. And this is not an Apple thing. Chido played 471. 80% of CTBs total (roughly 48/60, or 4/5ths). He had 35 tackles. 63% of CTB's total. Proof meet pudding. Yeah, I get Chido is better in coverage, but we play a lot of zone, and that number is significant. And Apple's is huge. 

After Revis' rookie year, he never reached more than 47 tackles in a season for the rest of his career. 
The year Deion Sanders won DPOY and was 3rd in MVP voting he had 36 tackles.
In the 5 years Dre Kirkpatrick started at least 10 games that year, he averaged 61 tackles a season despite missing games in all but of 1 the 5.

Rookie CBs are always going to get tested, as seen by Sauce getting thrown at a ton this year. If they respond well then QBs should target them less and less, giving them less opportunity to make tackles. I don't think making a lot of tackles is particularly a good thing on it's own for an outside CB.

According to PFR, CTB allowed a 102.9 QB Rating in his coverage with a 9.8% missed tackle rate and of course 0 INTs. No need to write him off or anything, because it's his rookie season and he can easily improve, but it hasn't been an extremely inspiring rookie year.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

The very first snap after the two point conversion to Tee Higgins.
Cam Sample pulls off a perfect stunt and forces Huntley to try an emergency dump off to Dobbins near the sideline. 
Dobbins makes one man miss and goes for a 27 yard gain.
That one man was CTB who over pursued and fell on his ass trying to stop, thus, more or less, pancaking himself even though he was unblocked.

@ 8:25 in the video on YouTube.

[CJD]

(01-13-2023, 01:02 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Now that the season is over.  What do you think of the Bengals 2022 draft?  What grade would you give?  What players surprised?

I'll be first to comment:  A bit of a disappointment Dax Hill -- But I do believe he just needs more reps and he'll long-term be solid

A surprise:  Zack Carter -- Solid and better than many people thought.  Cam Britt-Taylor is another who (for a rookie) has stepped into a starter's role and played decently.

I think they got good contributors in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. Our 5th round pick was injured all year and our 1st round pick was on the bench all year in preparation for Bates and/or Bell leaving, so we'll know more about him next year. And then Gunter was decent in the pre-season but obviously inactive for the majority of the year.

I like the potential for this draft, but it definitely feels like it's on the low end in terms of its impact on this generation of Bengals football. Unless Hill breaks out in a major way once he is starting, this will likely be a "contributor" draft rather than a "foundational" draft.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-15-2023, 12:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Great post.  But on the Hill part, remember CTB did not "make his way" into the rotation." Chido got hurt. 

Yes, there was one game where he played a half for Apple. Even so, taking some snaps from Apple (or Flowers in 4 corners) is a lower bar than Bates or Bell. Or Pratt (if we are playing 3 safeties). 

Wasn't CTB supposed to be taking over for Apple right before Chido got hurt? I seem to remember that he was.