Offensive Line Strategy

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Okay, Bengaldom! The offensive line isn’t what it was because it isn’t who it was. We’ve lost La’el Collins, Alex Cappa, and Jonah Williams so it’s best to plan for not having them in remainder of the postseason. My suggestion is to rebuild around Ted Karras, Max Scharping, and Cordell Volson by working in either Jackson Carman or D’Ante Smith at left tackle and keeping Hakeem Adeniji at right tackle. It’s always best to create as much chemistry among the offensive line as possible.

Frank Pollack has a decision to make. Does he retain the gap blocking scheme the Bengals have used since the game against the Saints or does he revert to zone blocking? Zone blocking is “easier” because it relies on individual linemen to clear a certain area. If one guy misses, however, the ball carrier or quarterback will take a hit. This is what the Bengals did for the first part of the season.

Gap blocking is mentally and physically tougher but it’s better. In this case linemen are assigned a defender to block, not a certain area of the field. In this case the linemen are given secondary blocks, etc. or assignments to put two men on a certain defender, for example. The Bengals’ win streak started when the gap blocking started.

While gap blocking is harder I think it needs to be taught this week to the new left tackle. Frank will have to get in lots of reps in very little time for it to work. Offensive line play is the key to beating Buffalo because a bad line severely limits the playbook.

[Earendil]

They have probably all been working on Gap Blocking in practice, so it isn't like Carman has been sitting on the bench thinking about Zone Blocking while the starters are working Gap.

[EatonFan]

Smith is hardly even mentioned. According to the depth chart he's the 'next up' guy.

[SladeX]

(01-18-2023, 10:01 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Smith is hardly even mentioned.  According to the depth chart he's the 'next up' guy.

Maybe Carman has been doing the best in practice? 

[Bengalitis]

We are going to have to go short and quick passes, with equal amount of runs. For every 6 passes the mandatory deep ball. I suspect the line will struggle and Burrow won't have the time he usually has to throw.... hopefully our OC knows this and is adjusting accordingly this week.

[higgy100]

(01-18-2023, 10:14 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We are going to have to go short and quick passes, with equal amount of runs. For every 6 passes the mandatory deep ball. I suspect the line will struggle and Burrow won't have the time he usually has to throw.... hopefully our OC knows this and is adjusting accordingly this week.

Especially on 1st down as they need to get 5-6 yards. It's going to be far easier to run the ball on 2nd/3rd and short for any team and especially one down 3 starters. It's exactly what they were doing as this OL was adjusting earlier in the year as teams were also playing 2 high S so JB was hitting the short/underneath passes.

[higgy100]

(01-16-2023, 02:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Okay, Bengaldom!  The offensive line isn’t what it was because it isn’t who it was.  We’ve lost La’el Collins, Alex Cappa, and Jonah Williams so it’s best to plan for not having them in remainder of the postseason. My suggestion is to rebuild around Ted Karras, Max Scharping, and Cordell Volson by working in either Jackson Carman or D’Ante Smith at left tackle and keeping Hakeem Adeniji at right tackle.  It’s always best to create as much chemistry among the offensive line as possible.  

Frank Pollack has a decision to make.  Does he retain the gap blocking scheme the Bengals have used since the game against the Saints or does he revert to zone blocking?  Zone blocking is “easier” because it relies on individual linemen to clear a certain area.  If one guy misses, however, the ball carrier or quarterback will take a hit.  This is what the Bengals did for the first part of the season.

Gap blocking is mentally and physically tougher but it’s better.  In this case linemen are assigned a defender to block, not a certain area of the field.  In this case the linemen are given secondary blocks, etc. or assignments to put two men on a certain defender, for example.  The Bengals’ win streak started when the gap blocking started.

While gap blocking is harder I think it needs to be taught this week to the new left tackle.  Frank will have to get in lots of reps in very little time for it to work.  Offensive line play is the key to beating Buffalo because a bad line severely limits the playbook.

You still need the guys to be able to play either scheme. I'm really not sure what these guys were playing a year ago when some of these backups were starting and getting lots of reps and what they're strengths are. The thing with zone scheme is it's still very difficult because once you man your area you still need to get to that 2nd level for play succession and I don't know what kind of athleticism these guys have or if they can.

Going to have to revert back to earlier when they started to figure it out as the new OL was getting acclimated with lots of quick hitters to the WR's and let them basically become the RB out on the edge, quick pops out in the flat to the RB's, some QB draws, etc. Buffalo with/without Miller doesn't scare me nearly as much as the Ravens with Smith manning the middle.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-18-2023, 10:01 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Smith is hardly even mentioned.  According to the depth chart he's the 'next up' guy.

There is some strange asthmatic-like issue with Smith, I have heard.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-16-2023, 02:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Okay, Bengaldom!  The offensive line isn’t what it was because it isn’t who it was.  We’ve lost La’el Collins, Alex Cappa, and Jonah Williams so it’s best to plan for not having them in remainder of the postseason. My suggestion is to rebuild around Ted Karras, Max Scharping, and Cordell Volson by working in either Jackson Carman or D’Ante Smith at left tackle and keeping Hakeem Adeniji at right tackle.  It’s always best to create as much chemistry among the offensive line as possible.  

Frank Pollack has a decision to make.  Does he retain the gap blocking scheme the Bengals have used since the game against the Saints or does he revert to zone blocking?  Zone blocking is “easier” because it relies on individual linemen to clear a certain area.  If one guy misses, however, the ball carrier or quarterback will take a hit.  This is what the Bengals did for the first part of the season.

Gap blocking is mentally and physically tougher but it’s better.  In this case linemen are assigned a defender to block, not a certain area of the field.  In this case the linemen are given secondary blocks, etc. or assignments to put two men on a certain defender, for example.  The Bengals’ win streak started when the gap blocking started.

While gap blocking is harder I think it needs to be taught this week to the new left tackle.  Frank will have to get in lots of reps in very little time for it to work.  Offensive line play is the key to beating Buffalo because a bad line severely limits the playbook.

Without getting in too deep on the particular schemes for the offensive line, I will offer this more general approach:  running the ball is now more important than ever.  The guys that are in now (except Adeniji) are not as good a pass blocker as the guys they are replacing.  In some instances (Carman?), they may be BETTER run blockers.  Having more balance in the game plan and executing the damn running plays with more effort and passion will help protect Joe the best.  We need the Mixon/Perine we saw against Atlanta and Carolina.  We need that determination from the line.  You simply can't put it all on Burrow when most of his receivers won't have time to uncover.  

The best chance on them continuing to run it back is to have a better effort/production from the rushing attack.  Burrow on a lot of 3rd and long plays is a recipe for disaster.  

[Sled21]

All of these guys have been practicing, it's not like something new is going to hit them this week. Keep doing what they are doing.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-18-2023, 10:14 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We are going to have to go short and quick passes, with equal amount of runs. For every 6 passes the mandatory deep ball. I suspect the line will struggle and Burrow won't have the time he usually has to throw.... hopefully our OC knows this and is adjusting accordingly this week.

Burrow has been getting the ball out much more quicker and the offense has adjusted to taking what teams give them, so that will still be effective.. all defenses are different so we will see what they have planned for Bills, plus the Bills are not that great with pressures especially with Miller out... 

[RegularGuy22]

(01-18-2023, 10:44 AM)Sled21 Wrote: All of these guys have been practicing, it's not like something new is going to hit them this week. Keep doing what they are doing.

Yes, this. These guys have been working together since early last year. This talk of bringing in players from other teams won't work. They will have to roll with who they have now. And they MUST establish a run game to go with the pass game. One dimensional offense will not work. Burrow will be on his back. Gotta somehow keep Bills D guessing with both. If they can't run the ball it will be a long afternoon.

[*ochocincos*]

The OTs are in a tough spot, honestly.

Adeniji has been struggling since taking over as starter at RT.
1 sack but 10 total pressures in the past 3 games.
He has better athleticism though that probably suggests he'd be better at LT than RT, assuming the left side has the speedier, but less powerful edge guy.

Carman wasn't getting pushed back on skates like we've seen with Adeniji at times, but man...he is not athletic enough to recover whenever defenders spin, shake, or really anything other than try to bull rush.

If Smith gets passed over in favor of Adeniji and Carman, I have 0 confidence he'd be any better than them.

I can't in good conscience recommend Prince either, as he was atrocious last year.

We're probably going to just have to hope that these guys can do just enough to reduce the pass rush enough and that Taylor/Callahan can scheme so that Burrow isn't having to rely on being upright for 4+ seconds on most pass attempts.

[Speedy Thomas]

I read somewhere that the Bills' pass rush is stronger from the inside than from the edges. So maybe there's hope.

[RegularGuy22]

Not only a Bengals problem but possibly across the league. These big 6'4" 320 lbs. Olineman have trouble with more nimble, quicker, more athletic edge rushers and linebackers. These more athletic players seem to be able to spin and fight off even the best Olineman most times. They may be 40-50 lbs lighter but they are quicker, and just as strong. Lots of times I see a good edge rusher with a spin move and they are past the Olineman aiming at the Qback with little trouble.

These Olineman have a hard time with these fast defenders. It's all they can do to give a Qback 3-4 seconds before the walls cave in. Is there a better way?

[higgy100]

(01-18-2023, 11:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The OTs are in a tough spot, honestly.

Adeniji has been struggling since taking over as starter at RT.
1 sack but 10 total pressures in the past 3 games.
He has better athleticism though that probably suggests he'd be better at LT than RT, assuming the left side has the speedier, but less powerful edge guy.

Carman wasn't getting pushed back on skates like we've seen with Adeniji at times, but man...he is not athletic enough to recover whenever defenders spin, shake, or really anything other than try to bull rush.

If Smith gets passed over in favor of Adeniji and Carman, I have 0 confidence he'd be any better than them.

I can't in good conscience recommend Prince either, as he was atrocious last year.

We're probably going to just have to hope that these guys can do just enough to reduce the pass rush enough and that Taylor/Callahan can scheme so that Burrow isn't having to rely on being upright for 4+ seconds on most pass attempts.

I think the thing with pressures is really overstated. Every OL gives up lots of pressures. I watched every game this weekend and what team did not have a QB scrambling around? Purdy on the 49'rs was running for his life most plays but he made plays out of that. Daniel Jones and Cousins were both running for their lives.

I believe Cinci. is in a much better place at this time than a year ago with a healthy JB who will now take off and get positive yards. DB's now have to turn around to see if he left the pocket which is something they never had to worry about last season.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2023, 12:14 PM)higgy100 Wrote: I think the thing with pressures is really overstated. Every OL gives up lots of pressures. I watched every game this weekend and what team did not have a QB scrambling around? Purdy on the 49'rs was running for his life most plays but he made plays out of that. Daniel Jones and Cousins were both running for their lives.

I believe Cinci. is in a much better place at this time than a year ago with a health JB who will now take off and get positive yards. DB's now have to turn around to see if he left the pocket which is something they never had to worry about last season.

I don't know if it's really overstated, but it does emphasize the need for a QB to be able to run or at least scramble to keep the play alive.
The less ability to move around, the more likely the QB will end up on the ground if they don't have a stout OL.

Burrow is far more mobile than the human tree that was Carson Palmer, but I feel he scrambles less than some of the other QBs.

We'll see how things fare against BUF Sunday.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-18-2023, 12:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't know if it's really overstated, but it does emphasize the need for a QB to be able to run or at least scramble to keep the play alive.
The less ability to move around, the more likely the QB will end up on the ground if they don't have a stout OL.

Burrow is far more mobile than the human tree that was Carson Palmer, but I feel he scrambles less than some of the other QBs.

We'll see how things fare against BUF Sunday.

And I don't think the Bills D line is quite as good as the Ravens. Hopefully, like you say Carman and Adeniji can hold up just enough to give Joe time. And again like you say I think teams underestimate Joe's ability to take off when needs be.

I just hope it doesn't need to be much. 

[WeezyBengal]

The success of the offense with this OL going forward isn't going to have anything to do with the personell (they stink, nothing you can do). It's going to be about offensive scheme.

Quick passing, short drop backs, getting the ball to your play makers and speed guys quickly and in space, and timely shots down the field based on set up plays.

Trying to "fix" the offensive line right now is a waste of time.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-18-2023, 11:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The OTs are in a tough spot, honestly.

Adeniji has been struggling since taking over as starter at RT.
1 sack but 10 total pressures in the past 3 games.
He has better athleticism though that probably suggests he'd be better at LT than RT, assuming the left side has the speedier, but less powerful edge guy.

Carman wasn't getting pushed back on skates like we've seen with Adeniji at times, but man...he is not athletic enough to recover whenever defenders spin, shake, or really anything other than try to bull rush.

If Smith gets passed over in favor of Adeniji and Carman, I have 0 confidence he'd be any better than them.

I can't in good conscience recommend Prince either, as he was atrocious last year.

We're probably going to just have to hope that these guys can do just enough to reduce the pass rush enough and that Taylor/Callahan can scheme so that Burrow isn't having to rely on being upright for 4+ seconds on most pass attempts.

Let's not forget teams have that much more tape on both Carman and Adeniji after last weeks game. 

I am expecting the OL to be a full on trainwreck this game.