Carman

[Sled21]

I meant to focus on him last night, but found myself watching Joe run from trouble so much I lost focus. From what I remember, all the pressure came either from the right side or up the middle. As far as I saw, Carman held up. Is that correct, or did he get beaten. (I saw one play where his guy got around him and got to Joe, but he held the ball forever on that play) What is everyone's opinion on his play last night?

[THE PISTONS]

It's honestly hard to say. I'd need to rewatch the game.

The Chiefs seemed to overload the tackles.

[grampahol]

(01-30-2023, 11:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I meant to focus on him last night, but found myself watching Joe run from trouble so much I lost focus. From what I remember, all the pressure came either from the right side or up the middle. As far as I saw, Carman held up. Is that correct, or did he get beaten. (I saw one play where his guy got around him and got to Joe, but he held the ball forever on that play) What is everyone's opinion on his play last night?

If it helps I didn't read any comments last night calling for Jackson's balls to be cut off with a rusty butter knife..

[wcu]

I think last night, he was the least of our online worries. RT and OG were hot trash. I'm sure he could have played better, but it seems he was good enough to win.

[Anarumo_Savant]

Yeah Adeniji and Scharping gave up most of the sacks and pressures

Carmen could win the starter spot over Jonah

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2023, 11:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I meant to focus on him last night, but found myself watching Joe run from trouble so much I lost focus. From what I remember, all the pressure came either from the right side or up the middle. As far as I saw, Carman held up. Is that correct, or did he get beaten. (I saw one play where his guy got around him and got to Joe, but he held the ball forever on that play) What is everyone's opinion on his play last night?

That's what I noticed too @Sled.
He did allow Jones to go around him one time after initially blocking him, which looked like a mental mistake. He acted like he had outside help to his left and looked for someone else to block after Jones went to the outside.

The majority of the pressure came from Adeniji and Scharping, who went against Chris Jones most of the game.
I was highly disappointed in Adeniji, although I guess in a way I wasn't because I saw him suffer from the same type of pass rushing that he was poor against his whole career. Dude just gets pushed back on skates when he faces power.

[leonardfan40]

I think I remember the play you mentioned. Pressure had already gotten to Joe and he dodged it. Then with all the time that took and movement and bodies on the ground Carman’s guy got by him for the sack. I don’t put that on him though, it’s really whoever got beat off the snap that allowed that play to be blown up.

Like you, I didn’t watch him closely but I noticed the interior and Adeniji getting beat a lot. I’d say that probably means Carman was pretty solid last night. He was a pleasant surprise those last few games. Might be better off letting him start over Jonah at this point. Save money too.

[Whatever]

(01-30-2023, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's what I noticed too @Sled.
He did allow Jones to go around him one time after initially blocking him, which looked like a mental mistake. He acted like he had outside help to his left and looked for someone else to block after Jones went to the outside.

The majority of the pressure came from Adeniji and Scharping, who went against Chris Jones most of the game.
I was highly disappointed in Adeniji, although I guess in a way I wasn't because I saw him suffer from the same type of pass rushing that he was poor against his whole career. Dude just gets pushed back on skates when he faces power.

Yeah, that play looked like a mental lapse.  Stuff like that can be smoothed out with more experience.

[THE PISTONS]

I'll just wait for his pff grade to be like 43...

[CJD]

I only noticed Carman (in a bad way) once, when he seemed to just...stop blocking Jones on a play that Jones' pressure ended up causing the incomplete pass. I don't recall exactly what happened (I'd have to go back and watch, if I have the stomach for that), but having one noticeably bad play all game is pretty astounding.

Maybe we try him at RT next year and see what happens. Or maybe even move Jonah over, since he's likely gone after 2023 anyway.

[HarleyDog]

(01-30-2023, 11:28 AM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: Yeah Adeniji and Scharping gave up most of the sacks and pressures

Carmen could win the starter spot over Jonah

There were a few plays Sharping looked completely confused and inept. It appears the snow in Buffalo helped our OL more than first realized because that line was not the same as the one in KC.

[WhoDeyK]

Carman appeared to be our best offensive lineman last night. I personally think his last two performances at LT were better than Jonah’s played all year.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-30-2023, 11:34 AM)WhoDeyK Wrote: Carman appeared to be our best offensive lineman last night. I personally think his last two performances at LT were better than Jonah’s played all year.

Next year’s offensive line should be, from left to right, Jackson Carman, Cordell Volson, Ted Karras, Alex Cappa, and a new right tackle either through the draft or via free agency.

[Sled21]

(01-30-2023, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's what I noticed too @Sled.
He did allow Jones to go around him one time after initially blocking him, which looked like a mental mistake. He acted like he had outside help to his left and looked for someone else to block after Jones went to the outside.

The majority of the pressure came from Adeniji and Scharping, who went against Chris Jones most of the game.
I was highly disappointed in Adeniji, although I guess in a way I wasn't because I saw him suffer from the same type of pass rushing that he was poor against his whole career. Dude just gets pushed back on skates when he faces power.

Yeah, Adeniji looked completely overmatched, and he was. Of course Chris Jones is a DPOY finalist.

[higgy100]

(01-30-2023, 11:33 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: There were a few plays Sharping looked completely confused and inept. It appears the snow in Buffalo helped our OL more than first realized because that line was not the same as the one in KC.

Buffalo didn't have Chris Jones, either. He makes your entire DL not better but damn near great. A true SUPER 1 gap player that takes 2 blockers every time and still has the get off to make tackles at the LOS, behind the LOS, pressure the QB and sack the QB and he plays damn near every down.

If Cinci. had Jones they would be a top 3-4 DL annually.

[sonofstat]

(01-30-2023, 11:33 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: There were a few plays Sharping looked completely confused and inept. It appears the snow in Buffalo helped our OL more than first realized because that line was not the same as the one in KC.

that was my fear going into KC ...even louder environment, just a better DL and playing without an early lead would find them out

This game felt a bit like the Super Bowl loss. We hung in tough despite never looking convincing, made some chunk contested throws but i just felt that the stud DL would bite us in their ass at the death (swap Donald for Jones last night)

[sonofstat]

(01-30-2023, 11:34 AM)WhoDeyK Wrote: Carman appeared to be our best offensive lineman last night. I personally think his last two performances at LT were better than Jonah’s played all year.

Think you might be right  - not Karras best game last night and he's been great for us all year.

re: Carman... he showed more physicality and nastiness in a couple of games v Ravens , Bills then Jonah has shown his whole career - have we ever seen a clip of Williams driving someone to sideline or pancaking someone?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2023, 12:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, Adeniji looked completely overmatched, and he was. Of course Chris Jones is a DPOY finalist.

For sure on CJ.
But Adeniji just now finished his 3rd season and continues to have the same problems with power year after year.
I think at this point it's time to call a spade a spade and realize he's never going to have the functional strength and anchor to be able to handle power.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2023, 12:16 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Next year’s offensive line should be, from left to right, Jackson Carman, Cordell Volson, Ted Karras, Alex Cappa, and a new right tackle either through the draft or via free agency.

Collins is still under contract for the next two years, although his dead cap if released is rather low (just $3.3 mill if let go this year).
He'd free up ~$6 mill in cap if the team moves on from him.

Personally, his cap hit is so low compared to most good OL that I'd keep him for one more year and probably try to draft a guy early to groom behind him.
Collins came in with an injury and had been dealing with injury a good amount of the year until he was finally sent to IR.
If they can't pull in someone like McGlinchey (likely too pricy), George Fant (more realistic), or even draw Daryl Williams out of retirement (only 30 years old), I think they keep Collins.
Fant I think could make the most sense, as he's not going to command a lot, he's been coached by Pollack when Pollack was the NYJ OL Coach in 2020, and he performed well in both 2020 and 2021.

I definitely think Carman has earned the right to stay on this team for another year, and I think it's fair to see if he can continue to grow with more opportunity. I'm not sure he'd get the nod to start though over Jonah Williams with Williams being on his 5th year option.
Adeniji should definitely not be on the team, and it's possible Scharping doesn't re-sign. The Bengals will (or should) have room to add another couple OL.
Hopefully though they don't wait until the 5th round to get a guy just because they feel they just need depth.
I'd be targeting a 3rd rounder at the latest.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-30-2023, 11:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I meant to focus on him last night, but found myself watching Joe run from trouble so much I lost focus. From what I remember, all the pressure came either from the right side or up the middle. As far as I saw, Carman held up. Is that correct, or did he get beaten. (I saw one play where his guy got around him and got to Joe, but he held the ball forever on that play) What is everyone's opinion on his play last night?

he played ok but  im not trusting Left tackle just yet to him.. let Williams and him battle it out... but he got reps which will help if he has to play as a backup