Win in the Trenches, Lose in the Trenches

[Fan_in_Kettering]

There it is. Trench warfare determines who wins football games and the last two weeks proves this point. Against Buffalo the Bengals dominated in both offensive and defensive line play but yesterday against the Chiefs the lines were horrible in comparison.

Stout line play enables both the offense and the defense. This has been the case since the Dayton Triangles played the Portsmouth Spartans back in the Cretaceous Period and it’s true now.

The Bengals had an above average offensive line for most of the season and the defensive line was far more consistent. Shore up the line play on both sides of the ball and the Bengals will consistently go deep in the playoffs.

[*Go Cards*]

(01-30-2023, 07:43 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: There it is.  Trench warfare determines who wins football games and the last two weeks proves this point.  Against Buffalo the Bengals dominated in both offensive and defensive line play but yesterday against the Chiefs the lines were horrible in comparison.

Stout line play enables both the offense and the defense.  This has been the case since the Dayton Triangles played the Portsmouth Spartans back in the Cretaceous Period and it’s true now.  

The Bengals had an above average offensive line for most of the season and the defensive line was far more consistent.  Shore up the line play on both sides of the ball and the Bengals will consistently go deep in the playoffs.

Need to add an elite pass rusher on the D-line 

[Essex Johnson]

(01-30-2023, 07:43 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: There it is.  Trench warfare determines who wins football games and the last two weeks proves this point.  Against Buffalo the Bengals dominated in both offensive and defensive line play but yesterday against the Chiefs the lines were horrible in comparison.

Stout line play enables both the offense and the defense.  This has been the case since the Dayton Triangles played the Portsmouth Spartans back in the Cretaceous Period and it’s true now.  

The Bengals had an above average offensive line for most of the season and the defensive line was far more consistent.  Shore up the line play on both sides of the ball and the Bengals will consistently go deep in the playoffs.

I would greatly question we have an above average Oline most of season for sure. The dline was not horrible, the Chiefs rushing attack averaged about 2 yards a carry and we had 2 sacks with some pressure on Mahomes.. so the defense line was not horrible, yes could play better against pass but totally dominated the run game

[Brownshoe]

Yep, best way to beat any team with a great QB is to get to the QB. That's how teams beat us. We need to fix our OL first and foremost. We need to find a great pass rusher too. IMO our OL isn't THAT far off from becoming reliable. We just need to find one or two more great players, or at the very least stay somewhat healthy.

[THE PISTONS]

I remember when the board wanted Thuney.

Spain would have helped at Guard.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Chiefs have an elite line they spent a ton of money on. Part of the reason they don't have Hill anymore.

[cincyfan429]

Two stud offensive tackles would make this team elite. They thought Collins would be an upgrade, but he just didn't work out. Stack the line, and this team will compete against anyone in the league.

[Murdock2420]

(01-31-2023, 12:15 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Chiefs have an elite line they spent a ton of money on. Part of the reason they don't have Hill anymore.

Well based on the results from Sunday guess it is safe to say that the elite line is better than a top tier WR as long as you have an elite QB. 

Of course that's been debated around here for several years now. 

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(01-31-2023, 12:35 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Well based on the results from Sunday guess it is safe to say that the elite line is better than a top tier WR as long as you have an elite QB. 

Of course that's been debated around here for several years now. 

They have a TE that's probably better than most WR's to be fair. And they had both and still had an okay enough line before last year and when they won the Super Bowl.

Also the Chiefs looked like ass to end the season but got the 1st seed then proceeded to play Jacksonville who just came off of back to back 1st round picks. Improved yes, but Jacksonville is far from a very good team, then beat us with 3 missing linemen and IMO questionable calls to give them the game at the end.

[Murdock2420]

(01-31-2023, 12:41 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: They have a TE that's probably better than most WR's to be fair. And they had both and still had an okay enough line before last year and when they won the Super Bowl.

Also the Chiefs looked like ass to end the season but got the 1st seed then proceeded to play Jacksonville who just came off of back to back 1st round picks. Improved yes, but Jacksonville is far from a very good team, then beat us with 3 missing linemen and IMO questionable calls to give them the game at the end.

There is no denying that Kelce is a beast, but he wasn't himself Sunday at all. It was very clear that injury was an issue for him. 

MVS would be the #3 or #4 WR on this team, and he went off for 6 for 116 and a TD to lead all recievers on both teams. 

Elite QB plus badass OL = Wins

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(01-31-2023, 12:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There is no denying that Kelce is a beast, but he wasn't himself Sunday at all. It was very clear that injury was an issue for him. 

MVS would be the #3 or #4 WR on this team, and he went off for 6 for 116 and a TD to lead all recievers on both teams. 

Elite QB plus badass OL = Wins

MVS was just a horrible mismatch. 6'4" making catches against a 5'9" CB (dang I didnt know Hilton was that short)

To be fair give us just Cappa back and I think we win. So it's not like we constructed our team poorly we just had massive injuries to one whole position group. Not to mention our best CB was out half the season too.

[Whatever]

(01-31-2023, 12:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There is no denying that Kelce is a beast, but he wasn't himself Sunday at all. It was very clear that injury was an issue for him. 

MVS would be the #3 or #4 WR on this team, and he went off for 6 for 116 and a TD to lead all recievers on both teams. 

Elite QB plus badass OL = Wins

Eh, "badass OL" gave up 3 sacks and only mustered 42 yards rushing.  I doubt anybody here would be gushing about OL play after a performance like that.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-31-2023, 12:15 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Chiefs have an elite line they spent a ton of money on. Part of the reason they don't have Hill anymore.

Actually 3/5s of their line is through great drafting and pickup of a player on his 3rd team after 3 years so rhey have 3 line cheap. Brown is a 1 yr rental probably for 16 m. So really if you add up what they spent on Thuney and Brown in 96 m for 2 with Brown probably gone and we spent 74m for 3 all with multi yr deals  I would not say he are not trying. The key difference is their draft and finding a quality fa cheap in Wylie.

[Soonerpeace]

Well imagine this? Our OL got whooped with 3 OL starters out. How would have KC done without 3 OL starters? You have to put things in perspective. Hendrickson was playing with a broken wrist and Hubbard a nagging calf. One of the keys to the game was KC had WR go down and secondary players. Our receivers didn’t take advantage. We missed Boyd. I believe the OL was gelling until Collins went down. I think Carman has turned the corner. He’s obviously more comfortable at LT. Imagine that? He started 27 games there at Clemson. Carman lost a lot of weight. Maybe the light has come on. The OL needs stability. I’d rather them draft a tackle first round. The DL is just going to have to develop.

A lot of money has to go in FA to a lot of players. Not to all one or two guys if they are going to make the puzzle work. If these guys all want to stay like they say then they are going to have to be reasonable

[*bengalfan74*]

It really is just that simple. I get the injuries, however, injuries aside is Williams really the answer at LT? Can Collins make it back and is he good enough in pass pro? We badly need better depth at Oline.

And we have to somehow get A LOT better at pass rush.

[Clark W Griswold]

(01-31-2023, 12:35 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Well based on the results from Sunday guess it is safe to say that the elite line is better than a top tier WR as long as you have an elite QB. 

Of course that's been debated around here for several years now. 

But last year showed the opposite to be true so there is no one right answer (and yes Chase over Sewell was still the right choice)

I think this shows us that they should probably pay for OT help and let Tee go or trade him.
I love what Tee can do but I think they would be even better with their superstar QB and WR playing with a dominant OL.

[WeezyBengal]

The Bengals lost in the playoffs this year and last year because of OL. It's as simple as that.

When you put Joe behind an at least average OL he goes from a good quarterback to the best quarterback on the planet.

Last year our OL sucked, this year we were just unlucky with the timing due to injuries. It happens.

That being said, I'd still look to upgrade the OL this off-season. They need an elite piece at one of the tackle positions.

[higgy100]

(01-31-2023, 12:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There is no denying that Kelce is a beast, but he wasn't himself Sunday at all. It was very clear that injury was an issue for him. 

MVS would be the #3 or #4 WR on this team, and he went off for 6 for 116 and a TD to lead all recievers on both teams. 

Elite QB plus badass OL = Wins

What was so clear his injury hurt him? Look, every guy out there is injured in a way and definitely hurting. There was nothing to the visible eye that Kelce's back was a hindrance. He blocked his ass off and caught 7 balls and got downfield fine. Probably catches at least another couple had they not lost 2 pf their WR's as Cinci. started doubling him.

[lone bengal]

Agree , far as upgrading the line we signed 3 free agents at some point with everyone getting paid we need to draft better there. Volson was solid for a rookie hopefully he continues to improve. The Eagles and Chiefs have two of the best lines in the league. Kansas City hit two home runs in the draft with Creed Humphrey’s in round 2 who’s an all pro and Trey Smith in round 6. Both Humphrey’s and Smith are in year two on rookie contracts which is huge. Eagles LT Jordan Mailata was a 7th round pick who played rugby, got Landon Diskerson rd. 2 and Kelce and Lane Johnson both home grown talent.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-31-2023, 12:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: When you put Joe behind an at least average OL he goes from a good quarterback to the best quarterback on the planet.

This. This a million times over.