15 Unrestricted Free Agents

[Luvnit2]

(01-30-2023, 12:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You saw what happened as soon as Boyd left the game, right? They automatically were able to double both Chase and Higgins. TB is an important part of this trio. You also have to factor in what happens when Chase or Higgins get injured and miss games. I'm a huge Irwin fan, he's a chain mover, but he's not a YAC guy as far as I can tell. Gotta keep TB.

Would you rather pay a LT or RT position player 9 million more or an aging Tyler Boyd who is your 3rd option? My point is losing Tyler Boyd did not cost us the game yesterday or the loss in the Super Bowl (Boyd had a critical drop), our OL cost us both games. You give Burrow and extra second to throw and Chase and Higgins will get open more.

I also think we scored 14 points after Boyd left, but I may be wrong. If right, we scored 6 points with him and 14 points without him.

[tms]

We have not shown a propensity for fixing the OL through the draft. I would much rather have an offseason like last where we add proven commodities to put in front of Joe, and then maybe add some draft pieces behind them for depth. This idea of throwing rookies into the fire is not a solution imo- even if they're good. The learning curve is inevitable and the rest of the team is ready to win now.

And to be honest, I may be one of the few but I don't think the line cost us the game yesterday. They struggled out of the gate but were functional for the last three quarters. Some hits and misses... such is life. For me there are three priorities: getting healthy, nailing the draft BPA-style (for future depth), and then figuring out what to do with the defense. There will be a lot of core pieces moving out (Bates, Bell, Pratt, who knows if Awuzie will be ready, quite possibly Anarumo himself). We've developed a steady professsional unit that complements our gamebreakers on offense, but it remains to be seen whether we can retain it as a strength.

[samhain]

(01-30-2023, 12:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Bates had 1 really good season and most are maybe above average to average. He wants paid at elite.

Yeah, I get it.  I still don't think it's very easy to find a guy that plays single high as well as he does.  He takes a lot of responsibility out there and guys like him aren't as easy to find as we'd like to hope.

In the end it's moot, because he's almost certainly done here.

[Frank Booth]

(01-30-2023, 12:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Would you rather pay a LT or RT position player 9 million more or an aging Tyler Boyd who is your 3rd option? My point is losing Tyler Boyd did not cost us the game yesterday or the loss in the Super Bowl (Boyd had a critical drop), our OL cost us both games. You give Burrow and extra second to throw and Chase and Higgins will get open more.

I also think we scored 14 points after Boyd left, but I may be wrong. If right, we scored 6 points with him and 14 points without him.

I truly believe Boyd would’ve been the player of the game if he didn’t get hurt. He was gashing KC, and Sneed left the game with an injury.

[Whatever]

(01-30-2023, 12:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You saw what happened as soon as Boyd left the game, right? They automatically were able to double both Chase and Higgins. TB is an important part of this trio. You also have to factor in what happens when Chase or Higgins get injured and miss games. I'm a huge Irwin fan, he's a chain mover, but he's not a YAC guy as far as I can tell. Gotta keep TB.

Boyd disappeared when Chase went down earlier in the year.  And again, he has 199 receiving yards in 7 playoff games.  That just doesn't cut it.  The offense struggled last night when he was in and it struggled when he was out.  

[007BengalsFan]

(01-30-2023, 09:53 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: What is the cap hit if we let them go ? could we trade them to get anything?

Sorry I didn't post the full info for Mixon's salary in my first post.  The ~9.5 million is actually his base salary.  Total salary is 12.7 million for the 2023 season.

According to spotrac.com if Mixon is released or traded after June 1 2023, 2.75 million of his 12.7 million would count toward the cap in 2023 and 2024.  It would free up about 10 million in cap space.  

If he were to be released or traded before June 1 the cap hit would be larger and we would only free up 7.2 million in cap space.

[007BengalsFan]

Tyler Boyd's base salary is 8.45 million with a total price of 10.2 million. If Boyd is cut or traded the cap hit would be 1.4 million for the 2023 season but we would save 8.88 million in total cap space.

[J24]

(01-30-2023, 12:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Bates had 1 really good season and most are maybe above average to average. He wants paid at elite.

He's been a top 15 player at safety 3 outbof the last 5 seasons according to pff,+ 2 time team captain, and he doesn't miss snaps or games.

The guy deserves to be paid elite numbers. Wether here or elsewhere. The Bengals are making a huge mistake if they are not signing him.

[HarleyDog]

I'm for moving on from Apple and Pratt. They don't belong here in our present culture.

I'm not sure where I stand with Bates. I guess I'm on the fence with him.

Bell and Hurst are definite re-signs. 

The rest are mid-level contributors. WTS, might be a good time to get a deal done with Burrow BEFORE he wins us a SB.

[*bfine32*]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cincinnati-bengals/

(last year's cost)

BATES ($12.9M)
BELL ($6M)
APPLE (3.7M)
HURST (3.5M)
FLOWERS (1.8M)
PERINE (1.6M)
B. ALLEN (1.5M)
C. HARRIS (1.2M)
D. SAMPLE (1.3M)*
SCHARPING (1.3M)
M. THOMAS (1.1M)
TAYLOR (1.1M)
DAVIS (1M)
PRATT (1M)*
BACHIE (890K)
T. WILLIAMS (850k)
ADOMITIS (705K)*
C. JOHNSON (660K)
WILCOX (N/A)

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 10:23 AM)samhain Wrote: As far as guys that aren't coming back, there are some pretty obvious ones.  Bates and Pratt are probably inking big contracts somewhere else.  Their replacements are in-house and can be backfilled with young players in the draft.  The Bengals do a solid job drafting linebackers and safeties, so I'm less concerned about these departures.  

Guys that could go are Boyd, Mixon, maybe Jonah and perhaps Bell.

I'd hate to see Vonn go in the same year as Bates.  Mixon's cap number, if I remember right, comes with a lot of dead cap.  Joe's been a great Bengal, but replacing a running back is less difficult than replacing other offensive weapons.  Teams with 50 million dollar qbs churn young running backs.  They don't pay big bucks to established ones on 2nd and 3rd contracts.

Jonah is a tough one.  If Carman can convince the staff that he can be trusted, I think Jonah can walk.  Williams is going to get paid a lot of money just because of the position he plays, and I'm not sure he provides the value you want for that level of commitment.  

Boyd's deal seems like a pretty reasonable one for a player of his caliber.  If there's a way to keep him, you make it happen.  You aren't getting a better player for 8.5 mil per year.  On the other hand, the league had a glut of receiver talent.  You can get dudes for less that might not be 1s or 2s, but would be just fine as 3rd options.  Receivers get paid, but possession receivers less so.  

Hurst will be a tough one as well.  We all like him and he likes being here.  If someone is going to shell out big bucks for him, then he probably needs to go and secure his financial future while the iron is hot.  The Bengals aren't an offense that leans on a TE, so paying one big money makes little sense.

We cannot let Jonah walk, he is a $12M cap hit regardless.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 12:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are 32 teams. 32nd highest paid should equal close to a team's #1 receiver, not their 3rd receiver.

Boyd is clearly our #3, we need to pay Higgins by using some of the Boyd money, keep developing our other slot guys or look to a 4th round or worse draft pick. There are a lot of 3 receivers who Burrow could make look good.

I like Boyd, but he needs to be traded in my humble opinion.

The math looks good, but we know there are players still on rookie deals thus the 32 isn't really 32 #1's.

If we could get any value out of Boyd I wouldn't protest.  In fact, I posted last year during the WR high stakes period that was going on that we should have considered trading Boyd at high with 2 years left on his deal for real value.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2023, 02:08 AM)casear2727 Wrote: He is the 32nd highest paid WR in the league and generally regarded as the best WR3.... how would that make sense?

Generally if you're the 32nd highest paid player at you're position, some expect you're the 32nd most productive player at your position.

I do think the Bengals could get Boyd-level production from a replacement for (much) cheaper than Boyd's cost.
But I like Boyd, so I'm ok keeping him for another year.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 12:02 PM)Tomcat Wrote: Just messed around and did a 4 round Mock on PFN and this is what i came up with. Tried to overhaul the OL a bit, but how about Skoronski at RT, Carman-LT, Wypler at Center, move Karras to LG and Cappa at RG. You have Darnell Wright as insurance for either Tackle spot and Volson as a backup too. Chase Brown at RB and let Joe move on.
CIN
28.

Peter Skoronski
OT Northwestern
CIN
60.

Darnell Wright
OT Tennessee
CIN
92.

Luke Wypler
OC Ohio State
CIN
131.

Chase Brown
RB Illinois

I would love this, but PFN has to be the worst mock simulator.

Skorinski is highly regarded as the 1st OT to be taken in the draft.

Wright is the #1 RT in the draft (argument could be made for Dawand Jones).

RBs, who knows nowadays??

[Boomer Anderson]

(01-30-2023, 02:03 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Boyd is not getting cut, he is a discount. 

Mixon on the other hand is a $12M cap hit next season and 13M in 2024.

Keep Boyd. Let Mixon go. Running backs aren’t that important in today’s game.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 03:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Generally if you're the 32nd highest paid player at you're position, some expect you're the 32nd most productive player at your position.

I do think the Bengals could get Boyd-level production from a replacement for (much) cheaper than Boyd's cost.
But I like Boyd, so I'm ok keeping him for another year.

I don't necessarily disagree but we are not getting much value from him with a trade this offseason, last year was the year to do it.  WRs will be picked over pretty well before we grab one.

We need a LT (unless Carmen can be the long term answer) and a RT.

We need a CB, Awuzie might be ready at the start of the season and even then wont be himself for awhile, see the Bills #1 CB.

LB and safety are big depth needs even if we resign Bell.

This draft is full of excellent edge rushers as well.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-31-2023, 03:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I don't necessarily disagree but we are not getting much value from him with a trade this offseason, last year was the year to do it.  WRs will be picked over pretty well before we grab one.

We need a LT (unless Carmen can be the long term answer) and a RT.

We need a CB, Awuzie might be ready at the start of the season and even then wont be himself for awhile, see the Bills #1 CB.

LB and safety are big depth needs even if we resign Bell.

This draft is full of excellent edge rushers as well.

TY Hilton was picked off the street by Dallas and was averaging 40 YPG.
His contract was $800k.

Boyd averaged 47.6 YPG last year, his lowest since 2017.
Boyd made $10.1 mill this past season.

Here's reality - The Bengals would free up $8.8 mill if they move on from Boyd.
That can be repurposed to go toward a cheaper WR3 and the remainder go toward another position (or positions).
Like I said, I'm not hard pressed to move away from Boyd because he's a good player, but if that money would help land a really good player at another position and they can ultimately end up having a better team overall, I'm ok with making the move.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 03:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: TY Hilton was picked off the street by Dallas and was averaging 40 YPG.
His contract was $800k.

Boyd averaged 47.6 YPG last year, his lowest since 2017.
Boyd made $10.1 mill this past season.

Here's reality - The Bengals would free up $9.8 mill if they move on from Boyd.
That can be repurposed to go toward a cheaper WR3 and the remainder go toward another position (or positions).
Like I said, I'm not hard pressed to move away from Boyd because he's a good player, but if that money would help land a really good player at another position and they can ultimately end up having a better team overall, I'm ok with making the move.

That is because Dallas doen't have a true WR2, but nonetheless... 

I think Boyd's saving is 8.8M, and again, I don't disagree.

I can tell you that Tyler is expecting a very large raise after this coming season and I seriously doubt we are giving it to him....

[higgy100]

(01-30-2023, 10:23 AM)samhain Wrote: As far as guys that aren't coming back, there are some pretty obvious ones.  Bates and Pratt are probably inking big contracts somewhere else.  Their replacements are in-house and can be backfilled with young players in the draft.  The Bengals do a solid job drafting linebackers and safeties, so I'm less concerned about these departures.  

Guys that could go are Boyd, Mixon, maybe Jonah and perhaps Bell.

I'd hate to see Vonn go in the same year as Bates.  Mixon's cap number, if I remember right, comes with a lot of dead cap.  Joe's been a great Bengal, but replacing a running back is less difficult than replacing other offensive weapons.  Teams with 50 million dollar qbs churn young running backs.  They don't pay big bucks to established ones on 2nd and 3rd contracts.

Jonah is a tough one.  If Carman can convince the staff that he can be trusted, I think Jonah can walk.  Williams is going to get paid a lot of money just because of the position he plays, and I'm not sure he provides the value you want for that level of commitment.  

Boyd's deal seems like a pretty reasonable one for a player of his caliber.  If there's a way to keep him, you make it happen.  You aren't getting a better player for 8.5 mil per year.  On the other hand, the league had a glut of receiver talent.  You can get dudes for less that might not be 1s or 2s, but would be just fine as 3rd options.  Receivers get paid, but possession receivers less so.  

Hurst will be a tough one as well.  We all like him and he likes being here.  If someone is going to shell out big bucks for him, then he probably needs to go and secure his financial future while the iron is hot.  The Bengals aren't an offense that leans on a TE, so paying one big money makes little sense.

Hurst caught 52 balls and missed 3 games. Not sure what to tell you if don't think he wasn't a vital part of the offense and what made some of the downfield passing so vital. He had to stay in quite a bit to block against KC. He's been a huge part. Yes, I agree there are many decisions to be made and we're just fans putting in our 2 cents.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-31-2023, 03:34 PM)casear2727 Wrote: That is because Dallas doen't have a true WR2, but nonetheless... 

I think Boyd's saving is 8.8M, and again, I don't disagree.

I can tell you that Tyler is expecting a very large raise after this coming season and I seriously doubt we are giving it to him....

Yes. But that is my point.

Look at all the money saved if Boyd, Mixon, and Collins are gone.

$8.8 mill (Boyd)
$7.2 mill (Mixon)
$6.0 mill (Collins)
-------------------
$22.0 mill total

You're telling me you can't find a way to repurpose $22.0 mill and find adequate-or-better replacements for those positions along with opening up the draft?

Bengals have $44 mill in cap space, up to $66 mill if they make these moves.

That could afford the ability to re-sign guys and get a stud OL like McGlinchey.
The rest of the money can be used along with the draft to get a new WR, RB, rotational pass rusher, quality OL depth, and LB/DB (depth).

Look, we know the Bengals are unlikely to make a move on guys like Mixon, Boyd, and Collins, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing (more often anyway).