How do we continue to build on our recent success?

[Luvnit2]

I look around and see teams who were very successful starting to decline, some in a big way, others slightly.

Slightly category
Pats - lost HOF/franchise QB, but still have HOF coach
Steelers - Lost HOF/franchise QB, but still have great coach
Steelers have some cap issues, but Pats do not.
Packers - I don't see this team as a Super Bowl possibility anymore. Have a great QB, but have some major cap issues as well

Major decline
Rams - went all in and won a Super Bowl, now in cap hell
Saints - Downhill ever since Brees left and the Payton. Also, in cap hell with no franchise QB

So, how did KC get to the Super Bowl paying their franchise QB 3 of the past 4 years. In 2022, they made a huge trade of Hill and got rid of his salary and got draft pics from Miami. The Miami Dolphins gave up a lot for Tyreek Hill. Miami traded five draft picks to the Kansas City Chiefs for Hill: a first-rounder, a second-rounder, two fourths and a sixth. The key was in 2022, they did not have a good draft, they had an awesome draft.

As we look back to our bad years in ML's last couple of years, it started with very bad picks.

We will have some tough decisions to make as we have a lot of guys we would love to keep, but reality is we can't keep them all. But the questions becomes, is a Tee Higgins trade something we should consider now or extend him? I love Tee, but trading him may be the best option, Hill got 5 picks, I think Tee could give us 3 picks. The key would be do we trust our FO to draft well.

Thoughts??

[WeezyBengal]

Be smart and follow the blue print of the Chiefs. Realize what position groups are important and which ones/players are luxuries.

The Bengals need to focus on continuing to build their offensive and defensive lines. That (along with QB) is where they should be investing a lot of their equity. That's where championships are won.

Some of the first steps the Bengals can take is getting out from dumb contracts. Mixon, Boyd, and not extending Higgins long term.

Use the money there and invest it into higher impact groups like those mentioned above (OL and DL). If they do that and continue to hit on a few draft picks each year they will be fine.

[TecmoBengals]

Fun question and I'd love to hear the inside conversations for how Duke, Zac, and others within the organization are handling such a conversation.

I'll offer my cursory take from a fantasy-GM lens for the current offseason:

1) Give Burrow his long-term contract.
2) Hold the line regarding Tee and a contract; don't pay him and proceed with him as WR2 under the current rookie deal.
3) Invest a high draft pick in a RB.
4) Continue to find ways to improve the starting OL and the OL depth.

Long-run plans:
1) Tee eventually leaves or is traded.
2) Sign Chase.
3) Balance the offense with the hopefully-emerging RB talent just drafted. I'm envisioning a RB who can make big-play runs that facilitate Burrow to Chase & company wide-open passes.
4) Always focus on building-up the OL.

[Goalpost]

I'm in the keep Tee camp. Our wr's our the envy of practically every fan base. Teams would kill to have what we have.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-07-2023, 12:35 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Fun question and I'd love to hear the inside conversations for how Duke, Zac, and others within the organization are handling such a conversation.

I'll offer my cursory take from a fantasy-GM lens for the current offseason:

1) Give Burrow his long-term contract.
2) Hold the line regarding Tee and a contract; don't pay him and proceed with him as WR2 under the current rookie deal.
3) Invest a high draft pick in a RB.
4) Continue to find ways to improve the starting OL and the OL depth.

Long-run plans:
1) Tee eventually leaves or is traded.
2) Sign Chase.
3) Balance the offense with the hopefully-emerging RB talent just drafted. I'm envisioning a RB who can make big-play runs that facilitate Burrow to Chase & company wide-open passes.
4) Always focus on building-up the OL.

Agree with these takes 100%. 

I'd explore franchise tagging Tee next year as well. You could trade him or even bring him back for another year before the Burrow contract really limits us financially. 

[WeezyBengal]

(02-07-2023, 12:41 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I'm in the keep Tee camp.  Our wr's our the envy of practically every fan base.  Teams would kill to have what we have.

I'd kill to have an elite WR and an above average offensive line. That's possible by not re-signing Tee. Joe doesn't need a loaded WR group - that's the hidden value of having an elite QB.

Tee is a 1,000 yard reciever. That production isn't super hard to find elsewhere. 

[Luvnit2]

(02-07-2023, 12:35 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Fun question and I'd love to hear the inside conversations for how Duke, Zac, and others within the organization are handling such a conversation.

I'll offer my cursory take from a fantasy-GM lens for the current offseason:

1) Give Burrow his long-term contract.
2) Hold the line regarding Tee and a contract; don't pay him and proceed with him as WR2 under the current rookie deal.
3) Invest a high draft pick in a RB.
4) Continue to find ways to improve the starting OL and the OL depth.

Long-run plans:
1) Tee eventually leaves or is traded.
2) Sign Chase.
3) Balance the offense with the hopefully-emerging RB talent just drafted. I'm envisioning a RB who can make big-play runs that facilitate Burrow to Chase & company wide-open passes.
4) Always focus on building-up the OL.

So you are willing to let Tee go after 2024 for a 3rd round comp. pick versus trading him for probably a 1st, and 3rd round minimum prior to the 2023 draft?

I am sure the Chiefs wanted to keep Hill, but looking at it now, they are a better team without him not only now, but the future due to that great draft.

The one thing KC has we don't is the best TE maybe to ever play the game who does not make WR money.

BTW..the 2023 franchise tag is 19.3 million so likely to be over 20 million in 2024 for anyone wanting to tag Tee.

[Luvnit2]

(02-07-2023, 12:44 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'd kill to have an elite WR and an above average offensive line. That's possible by not re-signing Tee. Joe doesn't need a loaded WR group - that's the hidden value of having an elite QB.

Tee is a 1,000 yard reciever. That production isn't super hard to find elsewhere. 

I agree as Joe develops, he will make good receivers look like great receivers IF HE IS GIVEN MORE TIME IN THE POCKET.

[Frank Booth]

You just have to continue to draft well

[XenoMorph]

Continue to Solidify the Trenches

Keep who you can. Draft to replace who you cant. Patch holes in FA

[CJD]

Build quality depth on the Oline and maintain 75 to 85% of the defense (re-sign Reader, Wilson, Chido, and Hendrickson when they come due, unless they're asking crazy numbers. Let Bates, Apple and Pratt walk. Hilton is a wild card, as he'll be turning 31 in 2025 as he becomes a free agent. If he's still got it, re-sign him for a year or two. Otherwise, move on).

The goal is to have a swing tackle or 2 that does not give up a < 2 second sack on a critical 3rd down and a swing guard or 2 that does the same.

If we drafted a guard and relegated Volson to back up and then signed a tackle to relegate Collins to back up, that would be ideal.

[Frank Booth]

(02-07-2023, 12:55 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Build quality depth on the Oline and maintain 75 to 85% of the defense (re-sign Reader, Wilson, Chido and Hendrickson when they come due, unless they're asking crazy numbers. Let Bates and Pratt walk).

The goal is to have a swing tackle or 2 that does not give up a < 2 second sack on a critical 3rd down and a swing guard or 2 that does the same.

If we drafted a guard and relegated Volson to back up and then signed a tackle to relegate Collins to back up, that would be ideal.

Collins was at his best when he was a LG in Dallas. I wouldn’t mind if he switched back over there

[SunsetBengal]

For the Bengals, I don't see following the model established by any other team as being "the way to do it", as for the past 3 years the Bengals have been evolving into a modern NFL franchise. The foundation of that model seems to be "modern minds for modern times" as far as coaching, talent evaluation and free agent negotiating goes. The coaching shows up in the team being in the Super Bowl and AFCCG on consecutive years by being creative enough on offense to overcome talent deficiencies on the OL, and by being prepared and readily adjusting to what opposing offenses are throwing at them on defense.

Thus far the talent evaluation process seems to be working, as the quality of players drafted over the past 3 years seems to be markedly better than in the previous handful of years before. Further on talent evaluation, the team has been able to identify players with specific skill sets to fill specific roles in what they are looking to achieve in free agency. These players aren't the blockbuster, mega-deal type of players, just solid players with the specific skills they are looking for, and not putting the team into cap compromising positions with their addition.

I say keep doing what they have been doing lately, and continue to evolve as situations are always fluidly changing.

[Luvnit2]

(02-07-2023, 12:54 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You just have to continue to draft well

I agree 100%, but a part of drafting well is then being able to draft players in the second round, then get great production from them on rookie deals and at times trade them for better draft picks than you got them for in my humble opinion.

Texas has pick #12 and will likely get their great franchise QB. They could take a receiver in the draft (unproven) or trade for Tee. Then, they would still have to give us other pick(s).

I am sure there are other teams that would also trade for Tee.

[Frank Booth]

(02-07-2023, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree 100%, but a part of drafting well is then being able to draft players in the second round, then get great production from them on rookie deals and at times trade them for better draft picks than you got them for in my humble opinion.

Texas has pick #12 and will likely get their great franchise QB. They could take a receiver in the draft (unproven) or trade for Tee. Then, they would still have to give us other pick(s).

I am sure there are other teams that would also trade for Tee.

Drafting well implies what you said

[WeezyBengal]

(02-07-2023, 12:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For the Bengals, I don't see following the model established by any other team as being "the way to do it", as for the past 3 years the Bengals have been evolving into a modern NFL franchise.  The foundation of that model seems to be "modern minds for modern times" as far as coaching, talent evaluation and free agent negotiating goes.  The coaching shows up in the team being in the Super Bowl and AFCCG on consecutive years by being creative enough on offense to overcome talent deficiencies on the OL, and by being prepared and readily adjusting to what opposing offenses are throwing at them on defense.

Thus far the talent evaluation process seems to be working, as the quality of players drafted over the past 3 years seems to be markedly better than in the previous handful of years before.  Further on talent evaluation, the team has been able to identify players with specific skill sets to fill specific roles in what they are looking to achieve in free agency.  These players aren't the blockbuster, mega-deal type of players, just solid players with the specific skills they are looking for, and not putting the team into cap compromising positions with their addition.

I say keep doing what they have been doing lately, and continue to evolve as situations are always fluidly changing.

Everything changes when you need to invest half of your salary cap into your QB.

[Luvnit2]

(02-07-2023, 01:04 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Everything changes when you need to invest half of your salary cap into your QB.

Yes Joe will be costly, Mahommes and Allen are costly. Lamar Jackson will be costly.

But none will require half of their salary cap. The cap in 2023 is 224 million. 20% of the cap is 44.8 million. I see Joe closer to 20% than 50% of our cap.

But yes, Joe goes from 10 million cap hit to over 40 million very soon. Tee will go from 4 million cap hit to 20+ million very soon for us or someone else.

[higgy100]

(02-07-2023, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree 100%, but a part of drafting well is then being able to draft players in the second round, then get great production from them on rookie deals and at times trade them for better draft picks than you got them for in my humble opinion.

Texas has pick #12 and will likely get their great franchise QB. They could take a receiver in the draft (unproven) or trade for Tee. Then, they would still have to give us other pick(s).

I am sure there are other teams that would also trade for Tee.

You have to be able to build your team also in rounds 3-5 which is vital.Those are damn good FB players that simply didn't run quite as well as they needed to, didn't have the vertical, the reach, hand size, etc. as others that went 1-2 rounds higher. It's the middle rounds that are huge.

I'll also add that when teams trade a good player or even trade up/down at the draft that there are usually many of these middle round picks (and FA's) that are involved so there are far more of those that constitute a team than 2nd rounders.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-07-2023, 12:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So you are willing to let Tee go after 2024 for a 3rd round comp. pick versus trading him for probably a 1st, and 3rd round minimum prior to the 2023 draft?

I am sure the Chiefs wanted to keep Hill, but looking at it now, they are a better team without him not only now, but the future due to that great draft.

The one thing KC has we don't is the best TE maybe to ever play the game who does not make WR money.

BTW..the 2023 franchise tag is 19.3 million so likely to be over 20 million in 2024 for anyone wanting to tag Tee.

The Chiefs operated from the position of being a team that already won the Super Bowl. I think that makes it easier to make the hard decision about trading a talented player for draft picks. The Bengals haven't yet achieved that success. To trade Tee is to risk giving away a known talent for a hopeful talent. I think having Tee this upcoming season gives the team the best opportunity to win it all.

I'm not opposed to the Bengals trading him prior to the upcoming draft though, but mostly was spit-balling my quick take on how I would proceed. You're info about the salary implications is important and definitely not something I thought about at all with my quick, fantasy-Gm take. Keeping Tee or trading Tee must account for the current and future budget.

[Luvnit2]

(02-07-2023, 12:33 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Be smart and follow the blue print of the Chiefs. Realize what position groups are important and which ones/players are luxuries.

The Bengals need to focus on continuing to build their offensive and defensive lines. That (along with QB) is where they should be investing a lot of their equity. That's where championships are won.

Some of the first steps the Bengals can take is getting out from dumb contracts. Mixon, Boyd, and not extending Higgins long term.

Use the money there and invest it into higher impact groups like those mentioned above (OL and DL). If they do that and continue to hit on a few draft picks each year they will be fine.

I do believe it is time to move on from Boyd, his 8.9 million of cap could be used to bolster the OL or help pay Tee or Joe B. more money with extensions.

I think Mixon's days are numbered also, if not in 2023, then in 2024. I am not sure Bengals could trade Mixon, but I do think they could get at least a 3rd round pic for Boyd.