(02-09-2023, 09:42 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Exactly, ROT is the # 1 priority! I like Darnell Wright and a guy we could get in the later rounds is Richard Gourgie out of Florida. Wright, and Gourgie all had good games coming out of the Senior Bowl. I noticed Mauch playing Center in the 1st half and ROT in the 3rd, he did well at both but he has arms that are 2 inches short of being an OT. I must have missed him playing OG.
Some people think Jonah is the answer to the Right Tackle, and we will not use him as a backup paying $13-million, so we need to go after a TE. That's irrelevant in my book b/c Jonah only has one more year on his contract. Also, Pratt and Wilson will determine if we need to get an LB in 2 or 3. I think Bell will stay put. If we can get a quality CB in rounds 2, 3, 4 I say take them. Also, we do have Allan George and Marvel Tell to develop.
Our fans don't realize that it takes a very special player to excel at both sides when playing OT. Jonah has been at LT for so long his muscle memory is set, asking him to change his plant foot will really make him look bad with speed rushers.
Jonah will start at LT this season and we go from there....
Pratt will have to take less money to stay here, not expecting him to do so.
I prefer an OT or CB in the 1st. I could see them liking Washington or Mayer.
Several positions should have solid players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Crazy surprises early in the draft I would be ok with:
Drew Sanders, LB. He and Logan would be incredible.
Boutte or Addison - dynamic WRs.
Gibbs or Achane - HR potential RBs
Mims or Scott (UC) - Crazy quick slots, both return men on special teams and lessens the blow of losing Boyd the next season.
If we would cut Mixon.... Roschon Johnson, played behind Bijan at Texas so he may drop a little, but is a very good back: 6'2, 225, 4.39.
(02-08-2023, 03:13 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: He's quick for a tight end and, at tight end, I'm not really concerned about his straight-line speed. We don't want him to be slow but I'm not expecting him to outrun a defensive back on a streak.
He has a knack for finding the endzone and he can make things happen after the catch.
He isn't that quick, for a TE, and that is comparing him to other college athletes. They can get much better value in the later rounds.
(02-10-2023, 07:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He isn't that quick, for a TE, and that is comparing him to other college athletes. They can get much better value in the later rounds.
Shh....You don't want to incur the wrath of telling Brad the facts.
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I could go on, but I think you get the point, so were you just trying to bash me and sound like a message board hard ass?
Brad, if you are going to keep on with the Gronk stuff and use Draftbuzz as your source you shouldn't ignore exactly what they said:
"He's been Nicknamed "Baby Gronk" since his freshman year, and while teams NFL may hope he's Gronk 2.0 we think he's probably closer to Baltimore's Mark Andrews."
They also said: Athletic profile limiting factor, Functional strength is good but not dominant,Not likely to win foot races with defensive backs, Does not have an expansive route tree.
(02-10-2023, 07:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He isn't that quick, for a TE, and that is comparing him to other college athletes. They can get much better value in the later rounds.
Agreed that Mayer isn't overly fast for a TE. He might do well in the agility drills though, from what some speculate.
Per this source, the average speed and agility times for a TE:
40 - 4.73
shuttle - 4.41
3-cone - 7.1
Quote:With a high school official 4.84-second 40-yard dash that will likely translate to a 4.7 next March, Mayer won’t win any straight-line races. Yet, he’s impressively quick for his size. He’s by no means a lumbering mover. In fact, he showcased quick feet and the ability to accelerate well with no discernible drop-off in speed or acceleration during transitions. Meanwhile, Mayer has showcased excellent lateral agility.
Ultimately, I really want to see how Mayer runs at the Combine/Pro Day. The above metrics are good baselines for him.
Here are Kyle Pitts' metrics for comparison: 40 - 4.44 shuttle - 4.35 3-cone - 7.12
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Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
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(02-10-2023, 12:14 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: FWIW, I was hoping to come off sounding sarcastic. If it was taken as a Richard, I apologize. I jest with you since your stance seems Mayer or bust.
You've always seemed reasonable from other posts.
My apologies!
There's a bunch of Richards on here that routinely just take empty shots at me like I ignore reason.
It's not Mayer or bust but we could have a dominant tight end and a dominant receiver like Chase and it just seems like we'd be very tough to stop.
(02-10-2023, 03:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Brad, if you are going to keep on with the Gronk stuff and use Draftbuzz as your source you shouldn't ignore exactly what they said:
"He's been Nicknamed "Baby Gronk" since his freshman year, and while teams NFL may hope he's Gronk 2.0 we think he's probably closer to Baltimore's Mark Andrews."
They also said: Athletic profile limiting factor, Functional strength is good but not dominant,Not likely to win foot races with defensive backs, Does not have an expansive route tree.
He is no doubt a very good player.
Like I keep saying, I'm not expecting him to win any foot races with DBs but he's definitely quick enough to make moves to get open in the middle of the field or up the seams.
(02-10-2023, 03:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Agreed that Mayer isn't overly fast for a TE. He might do well in the agility drills though, from what some speculate.
Per this source, the average speed and agility times for a TE:
40 - 4.73
shuttle - 4.41
3-cone - 7.1
(02-10-2023, 04:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: My apologies!
There's a bunch of Richards on here that routinely just take empty shots at me like I ignore reason.
It's not Mayer or bust but we could have a dominant tight end and a dominant receiver like Chase and it just seems like we'd be very tough to stop.
Like I keep saying, I'm not expecting him to win any foot races with DBs but he's definitely quick enough to make moves to get open in the middle of the field or up the seams.
Exactly. I'm not expecting him to win any 40 yard dash matchups but he's quick and agile enough to get open and make moves.
There is no doubt he is a very good player and I like him, I just dont see any way that he would command a double team or that he would dominate outside linebackers or strong safeties with his routes...
(02-10-2023, 04:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: My apologies!
There's a bunch of Richards on here that routinely just take empty shots at me like I ignore reason.
It's not Mayer or bust but we could have a dominant tight end and a dominant receiver like Chase and it just seems like we'd be very tough to stop.
Like I keep saying, I'm not expecting him to win any foot races with DBs but he's definitely quick enough to make moves to get open in the middle of the field or up the seams.
Exactly. I'm not expecting him to win any 40 yard dash matchups but he's quick and agile enough to get open and make moves.
There needs to be an asterisk with the bolded.
We don't quite know how quick or agile he is yet.
No Combine or Pro Day drills have happened yet.
He may look good on game tape, but often times that can come down to coverage breakdowns or going against (far) less twitchy players, thus allowing more separation than what that player will create in the NFL.
I'm optimistic Mayer will have good enough agility and decent enough speed to create separation, but I want to wait until we see him do drills before I solidify that opinion.
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(02-10-2023, 04:53 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There is no doubt he is a very good player and I like him, I just dont see any way that he would command a double team or that he would dominate outside linebackers or strong safeties with his routes...
lol.
Fair enough and I respect your opinion.
I watch videos like like this and just see him not showing blazing speed but being quick enough to get a little separation and then he's agile enough to make contested catches, especially against DBs.
I think he can beat DBs with physicality to make catches and there's no way that linebackers can stay with him.
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(02-10-2023, 05:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: There needs to be an asterisk with the bolded.
We don't quite know how quick or agile he is yet.
No Combine or Pro Day drills have happened yet.
He may look good on game tape, but often times that can come down to coverage breakdowns or going against (far) less twitchy players, thus allowing more separation than what that player will create in the NFL.
I'm optimistic Mayer will have good enough agility and decent enough speed to create separation, but I want to wait until we see him do drills before I solidify that opinion.
Game film is better proof than combine or Pro Day drills because those can be set-up to emphasize a player's strengths or a person might just be an athletic freak but it doesn't translate well to the field.
(02-10-2023, 05:11 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Game film is better proof than combine or Pro Day drills because those can be set-up to emphasize a player's strengths or a person might just be an athletic freak but it doesn't translate well to the field.
Game film also looks better at times than someone really is because, like I said, they are going against inferior competition and/or the defense has a blown assignment and the player gets wide open without requiring much speed/agility.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
I watch videos like like this and just see him not showing blazing speed but being quick enough to get a little separation and then he's agile enough to make contested catches, especially against DBs.
I think he can beat DBs with physicality to make catches and there's no way that linebackers can stay with him.
Excuse me as I don't embed this from YT like you did.
When I saw clips of Mayer, they looked exactly Durham. Not fast but quick enough to generate space and catches well. Blocks well too. His interview from the senior bowl is a big reason why (along with being able to get him later) i want him in the draft. When I did more research and found their stats were almost identical (with Mayer's being better), it made me not want Mayer.
If he's the pick, I'll support and rave about him like you have and will, I just wanted better value for that position. RT 1/2 + Durham (TE 4/5/ 6 in a deep TE class) vs TE 1 and RT 3/4 (in a bad OT class, especially RT from what I've seen).
(02-10-2023, 05:08 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think he can beat DBs with physicality to make catches and there's no way that linebackers can stay with him.
How do you come to the conclusion that LBs cant stay with him? Literally EVERY single LB in the NFL is faster than him. Our own ADG who couldn't start for us would blanket this guy.
7 out of 12 games the guy was held to 5 or less receptions, those NAVY, Cal, Syracuse and Stanford LBs must be crazy awesome.
Like I said Brad, the guy is a good player but he is nowhere near the level of receiver you are making him out to be. Musgrave is most likely the only guy that could come close to your proclamations, but he cant block.
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(02-10-2023, 05:42 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How do you come to the conclusion that LBs cant stay with him? Literally EVERY single LB in the NFL is faster than him. Our own ADG who couldn't start for us would blanket this guy.
7 out of 12 games the guy was held to 5 or less receptions, those NAVY, Cal, Syracuse and Stanford LBs must be crazy awesome.
Like I said Brad, the guy is a good player but he is nowhere near the level of receiver you are making him out to be. Musgrave is most likely the only guy that could come close to your proclamations, but he cant block.
It's not about speed, especially at tight end!
Yes, open field speed is important but it's more about quickness, moves, and agility.
That's why linebackers can't stay with him and, even if they can, he has the ability to make contested catches and diving/jumping catches.
(02-10-2023, 05:50 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's not about speed, especially at tight end!
Yes, open field speed is important but it's more about quickness, moves, and agility.
That's why linebackers can't stay with him and, even if they can, he has the ability to make contested catches and diving/jumping catches.
Im glad you like him so much and Im sure he will be good. This praise is a bit much, if all of this were true the guy would be a Top 5 pick. He may not be a 1st rounder and possibly not even the 1st TE picked.
It would be a tough decision for me if I had to choose Mayer or Washington for the Bengals with how much we use the TE blocking. Washington is an absolute road grader and I like his chances with contested catches, like Tee there are no 50-50 balls, more like 80-20 (according to Tee).
(02-10-2023, 05:50 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's not about speed, especially at tight end!
Yes, open field speed is important but it's more about quickness, moves, and agility.
That's why linebackers can't stay with him and, even if they can, he has the ability to make contested catches and diving/jumping catches.
For the short routes, 100% correct.
It's about twitch and running correct routes to cause that separation.
What some people want those is a TE who is more than just a guy who can get open short, but someone with the threat to actually go deep and get YAC with speed. That is something rarely seen with a TE, even the good ones.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
(02-10-2023, 05:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im glad you like him so much and Im sure he will be good. This praise is a bit much, if all of this were true the guy would be a Top 5 pick. He may not be a 1st rounder and possibly not even the 1st TE picked.
It would be a tough decision for me if I had to choose Mayer or Washington for the Bengals with how much we use the TE blocking. Washington is an absolute road grader and I like his chances with contested catches, like Tee there are no 50-50 balls, more like 80-20 (according to Tee).
It may be just me, but I don't like the idea of Washington at all. He has the size and whatnot but the dude (to my knowledge) never started in college. Yeah, I know he was behind Bowers but I just can't see ever spending a 1st on a college back up. Just grab a OT and teach them how to catch at that point.
Now that I've upset the floor with my TE takes. I take my leave.
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