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You dont take a TE with the first round draft pick. Its too valuable. The Bengals #29 pick will have a cap hit of about 2.4 milllion for 2023. At 2.4 million you could sign a decent free agent TE that would fill the need and be cheap. However, if you draft a good interior lineman or DE or CB you are getting a great deal because you cant find too many good ones for 2.4 million in free agency. Its much better for the team to lock up a good pass rusher for 4 years at 2 - 3 million than getting a TE for that price.
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(02-15-2023, 12:31 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: You dont take a TE with the first round draft pick. Its too valuable. The Bengals #29 pick will have a cap hit of about 2.4 milllion for 2023. At 2.4 million you could sign a decent free agent TE that would fill the need and be cheap. However, if you draft a good interior lineman or DE or CB you are getting a great deal because you cant find too many good ones for 2.4 million in free agency. Its much better for the team to lock up a good pass rusher for 4 years at 2 - 3 million than getting a TE for that price.
Does it change your opinion if the TE becomes an instant starter?
Last year we ended up Dax and his playing time proved minimal. Since this team is built to contend, I think they should focus on landing a talent that can immediately play and produce results. Whether an OL, TE, RB, or another position is fine with me.
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(02-14-2023, 09:10 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am just completely opposed to the idea of drafting a TE (or RB, or G, or LB) in the first round unless there is a consensus belief that they will be the next Kelce, Henry, Thuney, or Micah Parsons. None of the TEs in this class will ever be compared to Kelce.
The second contracts for WRs, DEs, CBs, and OTs are so high now that it is critical that you get a few of them on rookie deals to keep the talent and the books aligned. I know the Bengals drafted a S in the end of the first round last year, and I understand they really liked Hill as the heir apparent to Bates.
I am not saying there are no exceptions to that rule, but overall the Bengals currently have 1 OT on a rookie deal for one more year and will get around $12 million this next year. They have one first round WR and one first pick in the second round WRs, both on rookie deals. They have one CB on a rookie deal. Second rounder. I see almost no scenario where the Bengals aren't drafting an OT in the first round.
I would have TE behind OT, WR, CB, DE, and even DT, in terms of the Bengals draft priorities. I know it is BPA, but you get what I am saying. If there are four players that are equally rated as prospects that play TE, OT, CB, and DE....the TE would be at the end of the list each time.
Agree as usual. Have to take all these things into account when talking about taking a TE this early, let alone trading up for one
which we most likely would have to do to get Mayer. Darnell Wright is the dude I want at 28 right now, perfect RT for us.
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(02-15-2023, 12:31 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: You dont take a TE with the first round draft pick. Its too valuable. The Bengals #29 pick will have a cap hit of about 2.4 milllion for 2023. At 2.4 million you could sign a decent free agent TE that would fill the need and be cheap. However, if you draft a good interior lineman or DE or CB you are getting a great deal because you cant find too many good ones for 2.4 million in free agency. Its much better for the team to lock up a good pass rusher for 4 years at 2 - 3 million than getting a TE for that price.
There is something you aren't considering. Tee Higgins contract.
If the Bengals draft a stud TE, then the Bengals have the option of rolling with Chase/TE in 2024 and they don't necessarily need to spend over $20mm a year resigning Tee. The Bengals could still tag and trade Tee, getting a valuable pick--- and also using that $20mm plus allocated for Tee, to use elsewhere on the roster. Imagine the TE they draft is solid-- then the Bengals can use $20mm they would have used on Tee and use it on the OL and I think they are in better shape. I also for one don't feel it's smart for the Bengals to spend big on both Chase and Tee. Just on 1 of them.
Not to mention, don't underestimate the value of a good TE for a QB. There is a reason the Chiefs traded Tyreke Hill-- they still had Kelce. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but of the final 4 teams, Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles and Niners--- there was Kelce, Goedert and Kittles. 3 of the best 5 or 6 TE's out there.
I still don't believe the Bengals need to draft a TE early, as they can a solid one in round 2,3 or even 4. But it's not the worst thing in the world if they think they are able to get a future Pro-Bowl TE in the 1st round. A Pro-Bowl level TE is very valuable.
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(02-18-2023, 04:59 PM)ladeda Wrote: There is something you aren't considering. Tee Higgins contract.
If the Bengals draft a stud TE, then the Bengals have the option of rolling with Chase/TE in 2024 and they don't necessarily need to spend over $20mm a year resigning Tee. The Bengals could still tag and trade Tee, getting a valuable pick--- and also using that $20mm plus allocated for Tee, to use elsewhere on the roster. Imagine the TE they draft is solid-- then the Bengals can use $20mm they would have used on Tee and use it on the OL and I think they are in better shape. I also for one don't feel it's smart for the Bengals to spend big on both Chase and Tee. Just on 1 of them.
Not to mention, don't underestimate the value of a good TE for a QB. There is a reason the Chiefs traded Tyreke Hill-- they still had Kelce. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but of the final 4 teams, Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles and Niners--- there was Kelce, Goedert and Kittles. 3 of the best 5 or 6 TE's out there.
I still don't believe the Bengals need to draft a TE early, as they can a solid one in round 2,3 or even 4. But it's not the worst thing in the world if they think they are able to get a future Pro-Bowl TE in the 1st round. A Pro-Bowl level TE is very valuable.
BEAUTIFULLY said!
I didn't even think of the Tee factor and having to pay him next season.
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(02-15-2023, 12:31 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: You dont take a TE with the first round draft pick. Its too valuable. The Bengals #29 pick will have a cap hit of about 2.4 milllion for 2023. At 2.4 million you could sign a decent free agent TE that would fill the need and be cheap. However, if you draft a good interior lineman or DE or CB you are getting a great deal because you cant find too many good ones for 2.4 million in free agency. Its much better for the team to lock up a good pass rusher for 4 years at 2 - 3 million than getting a TE for that price.
I'm not sure about getting a quality TE at 2.4M, Hurst was one of the last TEs picked up and he was still 3.5....
That said, OT, Edge and CB are extremely more valuable positions that save several million with their 5th year extension.
I'm a "draft best OT" guy myself. But I could make a case for Mayer:
- Possibly the most sure thing in this draft. Guy has the highest floor of any player so why spend a 1st on a riskier player for a position of need?
- He is a hometown boy, does that come with loyalty like a Sam Hubbard when it comes to future contracts? Would he want his entire career in Cincy with his family like Burrow?
- He will never be as expensive as a WR but be more effective. Kelce played for 11M this past season, his contract jumps all the way up to 12M this coming season...........
Brad, feel free to use all of these arguments against me in the future.
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(02-18-2023, 04:59 PM)ladeda Wrote: There is something you aren't considering. Tee Higgins contract.
If the Bengals draft a stud TE, then the Bengals have the option of rolling with Chase/TE in 2024 and they don't necessarily need to spend over $20mm a year resigning Tee. The Bengals could still tag and trade Tee, getting a valuable pick--- and also using that $20mm plus allocated for Tee, to use elsewhere on the roster. Imagine the TE they draft is solid-- then the Bengals can use $20mm they would have used on Tee and use it on the OL and I think they are in better shape. I also for one don't feel it's smart for the Bengals to spend big on both Chase and Tee. Just on 1 of them.
Not to mention, don't underestimate the value of a good TE for a QB. There is a reason the Chiefs traded Tyreke Hill-- they still had Kelce. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but of the final 4 teams, Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles and Niners--- there was Kelce, Goedert and Kittles. 3 of the best 5 or 6 TE's out there.
I still don't believe the Bengals need to draft a TE early, as they can a solid one in round 2,3 or even 4. But it's not the worst thing in the world if they think they are able to get a future Pro-Bowl TE in the 1st round. A Pro-Bowl level TE is very valuable.
You may be right but none of the 3 were a first round. Actually 3, 2, and 5 respectfully.
As you said, that would mean Mayer isn't a wise choice considering he would require a 1st round pick.
Again, I'd be happy to welcome the hometown kid back but I'm still not sure its the wisest choice to make.
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(02-18-2023, 05:37 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: You may be right but none of the 3 were a first round. Actually 3, 2, and 5 respectfully.
As you said, that would mean Mayer isn't a wise choice considering he would require a 1st round pick.
Again, I'd be happy to welcome the hometown kid back but I'm still not sure its the wisest choice to make.
Not only were none of those Tight Ends 1st round picks but all three of those other teams mentioned invested in quality players on the O-line either through free agency or hiring a scouting department capable of spotting the talent needed for Oline. Its much easier for a QB to extend plays and get the ball to open TEs like Kelce when the QB has time to allow the TE to find an open space. With so many other needs I would be disappointed if the Bengals used a 1st round draft pick on a TE when you can find some quality TE free agents pretty cheap compared to the cost of signing a quality OT, D-line, cornerbacks. I just dont think the value is there to use a 1st round pick on a TE, RB, K, P
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I will saw I wouldnt mind using a 2nd round draft pick on a TE as long as he is a legit TE and not wasting a 2nd round pick like they did with Drew Sample. I dont dislike Sample but you shouldnt be using a 2nd round pick on a player like that because again the value for that type of player just isnt there to be using a 2nd round pick.
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(02-18-2023, 07:35 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I will saw I wouldnt mind using a 2nd round draft pick on a TE as long as he is a legit TE and not wasting a 2nd round pick like they did with Drew Sample. I dont dislike Sample but you shouldnt be using a 2nd round pick on a player like that because again the value for that type of player just isnt there to be using a 2nd round pick.
*Cough* Payne Durham in 4/5*cough*
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(02-18-2023, 04:59 PM)ladeda Wrote: Not to mention, don't underestimate the value of a good TE for a QB. There is a reason the Chiefs traded Tyreke Hill-- they still had Kelce. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but of the final 4 teams, Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles and Niners--- there was Kelce, Goedert and Kittles. 3 of the best 5 or 6 TE's out there.
Not sure these are good comparisons, all are a little taller and 10-15 pounds lighter... they seem to have more receiver type bodies.
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(02-15-2023, 12:31 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: You dont take a TE with the first round draft pick. Its too valuable. The Bengals #29 pick will have a cap hit of about 2.4 milllion for 2023. At 2.4 million you could sign a decent free agent TE that would fill the need and be cheap. However, if you draft a good interior lineman or DE or CB you are getting a great deal because you cant find too many good ones for 2.4 million in free agency. Its much better for the team to lock up a good pass rusher for 4 years at 2 - 3 million than getting a TE for that price.
Sorry it is hard to find good TE at 2.4 m.. need is the main indicator of drafting but right now i feel it is also who can come in and impact our team as a rookie.. I see Mayer as a player that can do that im not saying to draft a TE but the value of TEs continue to increase in the NFL with the passing game so their value has increased. I would totally look at Mayer if he was there especially if their top Tackles are off the board...
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I'm checking out other mock drafts around the internet to see where they have Mayer going, and the Chiefs section of USA Today has them taking him at 31!
I'm fine not drafting up to get him, but if he falls to us, we pass on him, and then the Chiefs take him, I'll be PISSED!
They'll be dominant with him and Kelce!
Sports Illustrated's mock has the Packers taking him at 15.
Same with CBS to the Packers.
PFF's newest draft they posted yesterday has the Bills taking him one spot before us, which would be a buzz-kill.
Here's another CBS Sports mock with Buffalo taking him before us.
NFL.com has him going 18th to the Lions and so does Tankathon
WalterFootball has us taking him and notes that we were interested in McBride last year.
NFLSpinZone has us taking him!
BrownsWire has him going 12th to the Texans.
Real GM has him going to the Cowboys two picks before us and then we take Washington out of Georgia at tight end.
NBC Sports has him falling to us!
The Athletic has the Jags taking him at 24.
Fansided has the Pats taking him at 14, which, go-figure since they call him Baby Gronk (which he hates).
Touchdown wire has him fallling to the Chiefs.
All of these give me hope that there's about a 50% chance that he falls to us and we draft him, which would be huge, and then I just hope we find other ways to improve our offensive line.
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(02-19-2023, 07:37 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm checking out other mock drafts around the internet to see where they have Mayer going, and the Chiefs section of USA Today has them taking him at 31!
I'm fine not drafting up to get him, but if he falls to us, we pass on him, and then the Chiefs take him, I'll be PISSED!
They'll be dominant with him and Kelce!
Sports Illustrated's mock has the Packers taking him at 15.
Same with CBS to the Packers.
PFF's newest draft they posted yesterday has the Bills taking him one spot before us, which would be a buzz-kill.
Here's another CBS Sports mock with Buffalo taking him before us.
NFL.com has him going 18th to the Lions and so does Tankathon
WalterFootball has us taking him and notes that we were interested in McBride last year.
NFLSpinZone has us taking him!
BrownsWire has him going 12th to the Texans.
Real GM has him going to the Cowboys two picks before us and then we take Washington out of Georgia at tight end.
NBC Sports has him falling to us!
The Athletic has the Jags taking him at 24.
Fansided has the Pats taking him at 14, which, go-figure since they call him Baby Gronk (which he hates).
Touchdown wire has him fallling to the Chiefs.
All of these give me hope that there's about a 50% chance that he falls to us and we draft him, which would be huge, and then I just hope we find other ways to improve our offensive line.
You realize that the USA Today article mentions they had him at 31 to KC due to the same article from Touchdown Wire, yes?
A lot of mocks I think will have him going one of 4 places:
Jac - Engram replacement
GB - Tonyan improvement
LAC - Everett replacement
CIN - Hometown kid.
Considering these are all without foresight of FA, those teams do make sense. Considering GB may get another 1st to trade A A Rod, and need to confirm if Love IS the guy, he feels exactly like a GB pick.
Edit, also of note, the reason I suspect TDW allowing KC to take Mayer is because they projected us to fill our most pressing need of RT first.
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(02-19-2023, 08:01 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: You realize that the USA Today article mentions they had him at 31 to KC due to the same article from Touchdown Wire, yes?
A lot of mocks I think will have him going one of 4 places:
Jac - Engram replacement
GB - Tonyan improvement
LAC - Everett replacement
CIN - Hometown kid.
Considering these are all without foresight of FA, those teams do make sense. Considering GB may get another 1st to trade A A Rod, and need to confirm if Love IS the guy, he feels exactly like a GB pick.
Edit, also of note, the reason I suspect TDW allowing KC to take Mayer is because they projected us to fill our most pressing need of RT first.
GB? Are they allowed to pick any type of receivers in the 1st Rd?
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(02-19-2023, 11:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: GB? Are they allowed to pick any type of receivers in the 1st Rd?
Maybe a TE is a middle ground compromise since they can block as well?
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(02-19-2023, 11:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: GB? Are they allowed to pick any type of receivers in the 1st Rd?
Yes.
As long as Aaron Rodgers isn't there.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
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(02-03-2023, 01:46 PM)casear2727 Wrote: TE is not utilized enough in our system if we have a major opening at RT (assuming LC isnt healthy).
A 4th WR over RT? Not me.
A 4th edge rusher over RT? Not me.
A 6th DT over RT? Not me.
A top CB, assuming Eli doesnt sign or a really really good CB even if he does? Maybe.
A top safety if Bell doesnt sign? Maybe
OG3 over RT1? Not me, but we do need depth, Im hoping Ben Brown can came back and provide that at C & G.
Tell me where Im wrong.
I think the OT prospects are riskier at #29 than some of the other spots. You are closer to getting the pick of the litter at RB, TE, S, or LB. CB & Edge have a lot of depth, with 19 of the top 50. And you can usually get a WR that can make an immediate impact late first (Zay Flowers?).
The 4th WR could be #2 by next year and save us a ton of cap.
But you are not wrong. But I am a bit hesitant to take a Rd2 guy in the first because of need and leave a genuine first round guy on the board.
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I'm calling it now - If Hurst is re-signed, don't expect Mayer to be drafted even if he's available.
Honestly, I see a lot of similarities between Hurst and Mayer.
I'll be interested to see how similar Mayer's Combine performance is to Hurst's.
Hurst was drafted 25th overall, which could be right around where Mayer goes.
If Hurst isn't retained, I think TE becomes a huge need in the draft.
I'd be ok with Mayer, Washington, or LaPorta as the new starting TE.
I know some like Kincaid, but I don't think he's enough of a blocker for the Bengals to pull the trigger on.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
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(02-22-2023, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm calling it now - If Hurst is re-signed, don't expect Mayer to be drafted even if he's available.
Honestly, I see a lot of similarities between Hurst and Mayer.
I'll be interested to see how similar Mayer's Combine performance is to Hurst's.
Hurst was drafted 25th overall, which could be right around where Mayer goes.
If Hurst isn't retained, I think TE becomes a huge need in the draft.
I'd be ok with Mayer, Washington, or LaPorta as the new starting TE.
I know some like Kincaid, but I don't think he's enough of a blocker for the Bengals to pull the trigger on.
Hurst has never performed as a 1st round pick unless you are good with lik 8 ypc and 3 to 5 tds a game. Mayer looks much better than Hurst.
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