The 2023 off-season - what do you want to see?

[3wt]

(02-14-2023, 04:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I want the Browns to bring in a new set of eyes when evaluating Offensive Line talent. I'm good with keeping Pollack, he just needs better players. I tend to think PA is still in Mike Brown's ear. Watching them keep missing on the players they select and leaving available players like Creed Humphrey on the table needs to be rectified. It's time for a new O line talent evaluator.

I totally think you're right Sled.  Just too many wiffs.   And better analysis on both sides of the ball.    Max Judon was a 5th round pick.  Trey Smith was a 6th round pick - a talent worthy of picking him in the 5th round.  Who would you rather have had, Chris Jones or William Jackson III?   Our own Bfine was touting Judon in his annual dreads draft.  With all the time to look at even u tube videos and written analysis they should be doing much better than they have.  Even me - an over the hill social worker - picked Grady Jarrett over Hardisty.

Everyone was just raving over Dax Hill, but I did not see him as a difference maker when he was on the field.

There have to be better people out there.

[bengalfan47]

I want see Lamar Jackson go to the NFC.
I want Deshaun Watson to do Deshaun Watson things and get suspended for the rest of his life!
I want the Steelers to eat *hit!

For us I want to get Burrow signed to a reasonable extension.
I want to not sit back with what we have and improve the offensive line so I dont have to drink excessively for another 17 games!
Sign Mike Hilton.
The Bengals ownership to make plans to put some decent food in Paycor Stadium. The current selection is comparable to the wheel of death
that they feature at work.
For the Bengals to realize how important I am as a fan and give me season tickets and a complete set of jerseys!

[Frank Booth]

I want the Ravens to pay Lamar. He’s an injury proned choke artist

PLEASE STAY, LAMAR

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2023, 01:20 AM)ghostzw Wrote: A Roller Coaster Season
nfltintedorange.blogspot.com


Remember Halloween?

The year started and we were all excited for Joe Burrow to finally have a normal preseason that didn’t involve zoom meetings or rehab.  The team could come out of the gate strong, mow through the front half of the schedule and have a cushion for the difficult slate of Nov. and Dec. games.

That’s what i thought anyway.

Burrow didn’t even make it to the first day of practice before an emergency appendectomy on the eve of training camp knocked him out for multiple weeks of team activities and all three preseason games. The rebuilt offensive line (also sidelined for much of the preseason) flopped coming out of the gate and the team dropped back to back losses to bad opposing QB’s to start the year.

They bounced back to get back to .500 only to drop another in-division game to Baltimore. They handled lesser competition to get to 4 wins.  And then Halloween hit.

2022 felt like the year where fun went to die.  Scoring was down. Parity was running amuck. And a week after the Bengals finally started flashing some of that tier 1 NFL contender potential, the roof caved in with them losing Chase and Awuzie to significant injuries and the team looking abysmal in the Cleveland prime time performance highlighted by a disheveled Cincy offense transforming the previously inept Browns D  into a fierce unit.

The Chase injury had the most gravitational pull as analysts tried to break down Cincy’s brutal performance on that Monday night.  That did explain some of the choppiness to the offense, but the rudder of the team for the first 2 months of the season had been second half defense. The more crushing blow was the in game injury to Awuzie.

When D.J. Reader went down, the defense weakened some, but the dam held and they were still able to elevate to a stout level of play in spurts. The run defense was understandably a shell of its former self, but having a top ten corner allowed for Laboratory Lou Anarumo to compensate. Logan Wilson, Mike Hilton, Von Bell, all of the role players took turns. Anarumo could mix and match, stay unpredictable,  and the secondary was capable of holding. Pull Awuzie out of the mix and the cracks would be too wide. The water would come rushing through. Losing Awuzie meant the ceiling for this roster was lowered  to below the level of the conference championship game.

..That’s what i thought anyway.

Instead the Bengals proceeded to rattle off 10 straight wins as they plowed through the meat of their schedule. They fought. They adapted. Young players stepped up.  Carter, Ossai, Taylor-Britt. Everyone chipped in. Week 16, an o-line starter went down. They forged on and kept winning. Week 18, another O-line starter was lost. They still found a way. Trey Hendrickson broke his wrist. The wild card round claimed the left tackle. And they just kept winning.

It felt great. But in the end the bandaids didn’t hold. The defense played admirably, but just leaked a little too much. By the fourth quarter the offense was sucking wind . They had a chance to seize the moment but the season ended like it did last year, 23-20 with a backup caliber offensive lineman giving up quick pressure to kill their last drive. Sure, this time the defense had a chance to hold again and give yet another chance to the offense and i crossed my fingers hoping for the best, but in the pit of my stomach i knew it was too much to ask.  It was the same way i felt last year when the Rams were driving for the go ahead score. The Logan Wilson penalty hadn’t happened yet. The Aaron Donald sack wasn’t a thing yet.  But i moved on to the business of consoling my son who was watching painfully but dutifully as the ship began to sink.

“Did you look at what happens?” My wife asked referring to the stream we were watching not quite being in real time.

“No,” i replied. “I’ve just seen this before.”

I knew. And right then my inclination for how the next season would go started to form.  

“We’ll be back,” was the mantra from players and Bengals faithful licking the wounds of narrow defeat.

“Regression! Regression! Regression,” touted the analytics honks. “They’ll be a better team with a worse record.”  The real answer was in between. The growth of this roster would outweigh the regression. They would challenge hard, but all of the breaks they caught in  2021 would catch up to them and they would come up short.

At least that’s what i thought.

It kind of came true, but in a strange way it didn’t. The season turned from agonizing to fun to agonizing to fun over and over again.  The injury bug tried to spoil the party, but then it didn’t, but then it did. Controversial injuries to opposing players in prime time in Cincinnati sparked national headlines twice. It was a winding road, but the team stuck together and continued to break through barriers they’ve never been through before:  Back to back division titles. Playoff victories in consecutive years. Curve balls kept coming, but they kept the blinders on and delivered. I was proud of their resilience.

Sure, the AFC championship game was a painful loss but don’t forget to enjoy what they accomplished.  Being the talk of the league is fun. Not combing the standings to figure out the updated draft order every week from November to January is fun.  We can enjoy it for what it is now and buckle up for next year.

As pundits everywhere have been quick to point out, the Bengals missed an opportunity this year and now it gets harder. Bills are coming due and ripples from their success are about to assault one of their biggest and maybe most underrated assets: Continuity.  

Other than the offensive line, the starting units have basically been together two or three years. The coaching staff has been together for five.  Unfortunately, that is about to change. Basically the whole secondary could be different to start next season depending on how Awuzie’s injury recovery goes. Anarumo has a second interview with the Cardinals (c’mon Mike Brown, dust off that Assistant Head Coach title and give that man a raise!  Give him an excuse to stick around one more year to finish some unfinished business!). Brian Callahan has a second interview with the Colts and the best in-house candidate to step up should there be an offensive coordinator void to fill, Dan Pitcher, is interviewing for Tampa’s OC position. Some of these guys might be back. But all of them won’t, and overcoming  losing them will be too big of a hill to climb to get to the top of the mountain next year where we all want them to be.

.. At least that’s how i used to think.
But with this team, now i can’t be sure.

Well, looks like Lou and most of the coaches will all be back, this was the concern at the time though and was a nice post.

We are pretty much returning our entire coaching staff and most of our players once again with 3 maybe 4 new players on the 
OL in front of Burrow that started to shine until 2 of them got hurt in Cappa and Collins. Karras could be the best Center we have
had ever. Volson was a stud for a rookie and Carman started to come around etc.

Love our Defense with Lou. The sky is still the limit for this team, expecting SB win next year with Lou coming back.

(02-14-2023, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Pretty dead on.  I might look at Mixon as a restructure candidate.  And I am fine with Crisman.  He had one bad punt against KC.  It is always a challenge for footing on grass instead of turf.

The rest I am completely in alignment with.  I have no idea what game wrecker or solid OT could be available for the Bengals to sign, but one thing is for certain:  This is the most critical draft in Bengals history.  If they nail it, could win multiple SBs over the next 5 years.  Whiff and they might merely be a playoff team.  Somewhere in between...

I am hoping they can get a few guys like the rotational pass rushers on Philly.  Although, we saw that if a line is solid and they aren't calling holding, the best defensive lines can be shut down by the best offensive line.  This is why I put OT at our #1 spot.  They need someone that can come in and start at RT.  A mauler.  They have another year to see if Jonah can be an effective LT, but I think Carman might be able to take his spot.  The added weight on Jonah (and it wasn't good weight) put undue stress on his body and he couldn't stay healthy.  They need depth and competition.  I think Adeniji could be in the mix at LT, but his ship might have sailed.  No idea what to think of D'Ante Smith.  

They could go OT in round 1 and round 3.  

I don't think any other position improves the team more.  

Sunset just started a thread with us trading for Garrett Bolles who certainly fits what we need at RT with La'el's injury...

Garrett Bolles and draft another OT early and we could be set on the OL.

(02-14-2023, 04:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I want the Browns to bring in a new set of eyes when evaluating Offensive Line talent. I'm good with keeping Pollack, he just needs better players. I tend to think PA is still in Mike Brown's ear. Watching them keep missing on the players they select and leaving available players like Creed Humphrey on the table needs to be rectified. It's time for a new O line talent evaluator.

Yes sir.

(02-14-2023, 05:25 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: New eyes aren't always the answer.  Every team passed on Humphrey, and all but two passed on him twice.  62 players were taken ahead of Humphrey, including 12 OL's. Hell, Green Bay took a center with the pick immediately preceding Creed.  Scouting isn't as easy as it seems.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  And I doubt seriously that a former guy has more credibility with the owner than our current coaches. 

But if new eyes would help usage better talent on the O line or anywhere else, I'm all for it.

To me, he was still the no brainer pick, I liked Carman but not near as much as Humphrey. Was a bad miss, also for bringing in a new
set of eyes like Sled said to evaluate OL.

[Sled21]

(02-15-2023, 08:03 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I want the Ravens to pay Lamar. He’s an injury proned choke artist

PLEASE STAY, LAMAR

Not sure if their new OC from Georgia means he's staying or if it means he is going. I think he's probably going. Moving to the NFC at this moment in time makes his professional life loads easier. There's like 3-4 quality QBs in the whole conference while the AFC is loaded.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-14-2023, 05:25 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: New eyes aren't always the answer.  Every team passed on Humphrey, and all but two passed on him twice.  62 players were taken ahead of Humphrey, including 12 OL's. Hell, Green Bay took a center with the pick immediately preceding Creed.  Scouting isn't as easy as it seems.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  And I doubt seriously that a former guy has more credibility with the owner than our current coaches. 

But if new eyes would help usage better talent on the O line or anywhere else, I'm all for it.

Bob Stoops told me freshman Creed Humphrey ( redshirting at the time which was stupid even though the Sooners had a senior veteran starting) was the best run blocker on the team. That was with the OL that won the Joe Moore award and produced 4 NFL starters. Centers don’t go high but a lot missed on him.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-16-2023, 04:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not sure if their new OC from Georgia means he's staying or if it means he is going. I think he's probably going. Moving to the NFC at this moment in time makes his professional life loads easier. There's like 3-4 quality QBs in the whole conference while the AFC is loaded.

I need to find a sportsbook offering wagers on where Jackson ends up.  I would put a bit on the Falcons.  

[Sled21]

(02-17-2023, 08:35 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I need to find a sportsbook offering wagers on where Jackson ends up.  I would put a bit on the Falcons.  

Or Tampa Bay...

[Frank Booth]

(02-17-2023, 09:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Or Tampa Bay...

I think it’s Tampa as well

[*ochocincos*]

I want to see a couple veteran (at least depth) pieces added so the Bengals don't have to rely so much on the draft.

Bengals will potentially need:
1-2 safeties (Bates and/or Bell likely leaving)
2 TEs (remove one if Hurst re-signs)
1 LB (remove if Pratt re-signs)
1-2 CBs (remove 1 if Apple and/or Flowers re-signs)
2+ OL (gotta improve that depth, at minimum)
1 DL (someone who can rush the passer preferably)
1 RB (unless Bengals choose to re-sign Perine and Williams plus keep Mixon)
1 backup QB (remove if Allen re-signs)
1-2 WR? (planning ahead for a Boyd/Higgins departure)

Bengals only have 7 draft picks, so they can't fill everything with the draft.

I too would move on from Mixon, but the Bengals won't likely do that until they get their replacement(s) in the door first.

With draft pick OL struggling so much in the NFL, I would like for at least one veteran added for depth. Don't want to have to rely solely on draft picks to cover replacement responsibilities if an injury occurs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-16-2023, 06:11 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Bob Stoops told me freshman Creed Humphrey ( redshirting at the time which was stupid even though the Sooners had a senior veteran starting) was the best run blocker on the team. That was with the OL that won the Joe Moore award and produced 4 NFL starters. Centers don’t go high but a lot missed on him.

Including us, wanted Creed in the 2nd round big time before that Draft and ahead of Carman by a ways, but hey...

We got Ted Karras now, it's all good.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-17-2023, 11:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I want to see a couple veteran (at least depth) pieces added so the Bengals don't have to rely so much on the draft.

Bengals will potentially need:
1-2 safeties (Bates and/or Bell likely leaving)
2 TEs (remove one if Hurst re-signs)
1 LB (remove if Pratt re-signs)
1-2 CBs (remove 1 if Apple and/or Flowers re-signs)
2+ OL (gotta improve that depth, at minimum)
1 DL (someone who can rush the passer preferably)
1 RB (unless Bengals choose to re-sign Perine and Williams plus keep Mixon)
1 backup QB (remove if Allen re-signs)
1-2 WR? (planning ahead for a Boyd/Higgins departure)

Bengals only have 7 draft picks, so they can't fill everything with the draft.

I too would move on from Mixon, but the Bengals won't likely do that until they get their replacement(s) in the door first.

With draft pick OL struggling so much in the NFL, I would like for at least one veteran added for depth. Don't want to have to rely solely on draft picks to cover replacement responsibilities if an injury occurs.

Bringing back Bell, Hurst, Apple, Flowers should take some of those needs away. Have to expect growth from Dax Hill with Bates 
departure. Have to expect ADG/Bailey growth with Pratt's departure. Your last point is spot on Ocho, cannot rely on a rookie at RT
even if I really like Darnell Wright a ton. We cannot expect La'el to play early in the season or play any way like he is healthy.

Takes OL longer than about any other position to come back from an ACL tear. Expecting Awuzie to be back 100% like half a 
season ahead of La'el. Still want us to trade for Garrett Boles which shouldn't cost more than a 3rd rounder. This would be the 
best insurance for this team IMHO.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-17-2023, 04:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Bringing back Bell, Hurst, Apple, Flowers should take some of those needs away. Have to expect growth from Dax Hill with Bates 
departure. Have to expect ADG/Bailey growth with Pratt's departure. Your last point is spot on Ocho, cannot rely on a rookie at RT
even if I really like Darnell Wright a ton. We cannot expect La'el to play early in the season or play any way like he is healthy.

Takes OL longer than about any other position to come back from an ACL tear. Expecting Awuzie to be back 100% like half a 
season ahead of La'el. Still want us to trade for Garrett Boles which shouldn't cost more than a 3rd rounder. This would be the 
best insurance for this team IMHO.

It's important to note that the Bengals have $44 mill in cap to work with.
Re-signing players will eat that up quickly, especially guys like Bell (or Bates), Hurst, and/or Pratt.
Apple, Flowers, Perine should be under $5 mill each.

I think we can safely guesstimate Bell+Hurst will cost $15-18 mill APY toward the cap.
Apple safely $4-5 mill (he counted $3.75 mill this past year).
Perine I think will get a boost in his cost, maybe $3-4 mill.
Flowers $2 mill (he signed for just under this this past season).
Adomitis $1 mill (Bengals need a LS)
-------------------
$25-30 mill

Draft picks are expected to be ~$6-7 mill, according to Spotrac.
I know there's replacement involved, but Bengals tend to block out the entire draft cost.
So you're looking at $32-37 mill already accounted for if you re-sign Bell, Hurst, Perine, Flowers, Apple, Adomitis.


Bengals also typically will leave at least a few mill for reserve/extensions.


So realistically, you're looking at the cap pretty much getting eaten up by these internal FAs+draft picks.
If we want the Bengals to add anyone else worth a damn, some cuts might have to come (like Mixon).

[TecmoBengals]

(02-17-2023, 05:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's important to note that the Bengals have $44 mill in cap to work with.

Does this number change significantly if Burrow gets the big extension?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-17-2023, 05:42 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Does this number change significantly if Burrow gets the big extension?

No extensions are factored into that cap, so yes it could depending on the structure.
Obviously too, the actual FA signings (including internal) will play into the exact specifics like front-loading, spreading out the guarantees over the duration, etc.

It's possible the Bengals reserve $5-10 mill for Summer extensions to Burrow (and others?), thus shrinking the available FA cap.

Bengals will find some ways to fit people in the cap, but don't expect them to go crazy in FA...at least not without letting some others walk and/or making some cuts/trades.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-17-2023, 05:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's important to note that the Bengals have $44 mill in cap to work with.
Re-signing players will eat that up quickly, especially guys like Bell (or Bates), Hurst, and/or Pratt.
Apple, Flowers, Perine should be under $5 mill each.

I think we can safely guesstimate Bell+Hurst will cost $15-18 mill APY toward the cap.
Apple safely $4-5 mill (he counted $3.75 mill this past year).
Perine I think will get a boost in his cost, maybe $3-4 mill.
Flowers $2 mill (he signed for just under this this past season).
Adomitis $1 mill (Bengals need a LS)
-------------------
$25-30 mill

Draft picks are expected to be ~$6-7 mill, according to Spotrac.
I know there's replacement involved, but Bengals tend to block out the entire draft cost.
So you're looking at $32-37 mill already accounted for if you re-sign Bell, Hurst, Perine, Flowers, Apple, Adomitis.


Bengals also typically will leave at least a few mill for reserve/extensions.


So realistically, you're looking at the cap pretty much getting eaten up by these internal FAs+draft picks.
If we want the Bengals to add anyone else worth a damn, some cuts might have to come (like Mixon).

Nice post Ocho, yeah, I think we might have to cut Mixon and maybe even somebody else to bring in that OT we need in FA.

I don't know what the cap hit is for cutting La'el Collins but that might be an option if his injury is going to take all year to heal.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-17-2023, 09:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Or Tampa Bay...

Yeah, he grew up in Pompano Beach so Florida makes sense, even though he lived on the other side of the state.  I have seen a few pictures of him boating, etc, as well, but I just have a really strong feeling the Falcons owner sees another Mick Vick (without the dog killing) and he knows how much he brought to the Falcons.  

Tampa is in a huge transition and has one of the oldest rosters in the NFL.  I look at Atlanta and they have tons of cap space, Kyle Pitts, Calvin Ridley being reinstated, a solid run game and offensive line and some decent pieces on defense.  

I have a feeling they make a strong push for Jackson.  

[samhain]

(02-18-2023, 10:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, he grew up in Pompano Beach so Florida makes sense, even though he lived on the other side of the state.  I have seen a few pictures of him boating, etc, as well, but I just have a really strong feeling the Falcons owner sees another Mick Vick (without the dog killing) and he knows how much he brought to the Falcons.  

Tampa is in a huge transition and has one of the oldest rosters in the NFL.  I look at Atlanta and they have tons of cap space, Kyle Pitts, Calvin Ridley being reinstated, a solid run game and offensive line and some decent pieces on defense.  

I have a feeling they make a strong push for Jackson.  

Calvin Ridley got traded to the Jags.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-18-2023, 10:41 AM)samhain Wrote: Calvin Ridley got traded to the Jags.

Wow really?  What did they get for him? 

[Soonerpeace]

(02-17-2023, 05:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: No extensions are factored into that cap, so yes it could depending on the structure.
Obviously too, the actual FA signings (including internal) will play into the exact specifics like front-loading, spreading out the guarantees over the duration, etc.

It's possible the Bengals reserve $5-10 mill for Summer extensions to Burrow (and others?), thus shrinking the available FA cap.

Bengals will find some ways to fit people in the cap, but don't expect them to go crazy in FA...at least not without letting some others walk and/or making some cuts/trades.

Good job. Those 1,2,3 million dollar deals mount up. It’s like your debit card or checking account. You might neglect counting all the little expenses and just look at house payment, car payment, health insurance etc versus gas, grocery store, etc.