Bengals unlikely to be aggressive in free agency

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-20-2023, 06:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No doubt, i get that teams want as much info as possible. I just don't know that PAs evaluations match his supposed reputation. I'm the furthest thing from an Oline guru you can find but it's not like he has some great track record. 

He doesn't seem to have too much negative to say about anyone coming out. I'd be interested to hear what he thinks of Dawand Jones. 

Not to mention, our run game woes go all the way back to the last several years of his run. He might know technique (he should) which is what those tweets portray, but it doesn't seem he's much on talent evals though lately. That, or he has a secret vendetta against Mikey. He "pounded the table" for Cedric Oléhi FFS.

[Bengal Dude]

(02-20-2023, 11:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: Not to mention, our run game woes go all the way back to the last several years of his run. He might know technique (he should) which is what those tweets portray, but it doesn't seem he's much on talent evals though lately though. That, or he has a secret vendetta against Mikey. He "pounded the table" for Cedric Oléhi FFS.

Don't forget the "witch hunt" against Bodine.

I'd say the game passed Alexander by. Lazor took away his run game duties, he didn't last a whole season in Dallas after he was let go, and even Lap took a shot at him after he was gone.

[WeezyBengal]

Reading the tea leaves...I am not sure this bodes well for the "cut Mixon" camp.

If you cut Mixon then you open the door to bring in FAs with the money freed up. It sounds like they want to run it back with the same personel. I wouldn't be shocked if Mixon is your day 1 starter next year.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-21-2023, 10:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Reading the tea leaves...I am not sure this bodes well for the "cut Mixon" camp.

If you cut Mixon then you open the door to bring in FAs with the money freed up. It sounds like they want to run it back with the same personel. I wouldn't be shocked if Mixon is your day 1 starter next year.

I’ve been hammering that day one. Monetarily is the only real reason. He’s still got it. Carolina was not a fluke. Bitching about his pass blocking works fine as his touches have to be regulated. He’s a huge locker room presence. Zac really is prejudice to the guys who were here and bought in originally. The Blackburns adore him. He needs an OL.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Hopefully they go get Mike McGlinchey. He’s a solid right tackle. M


Then a few vets to fill holes. Then Ace the draft.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-21-2023, 11:08 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve been hammering that day one. Monetarily is the only real reason. He’s still got it. Carolina was not a fluke. Bitching about his pass blocking works fine as his touches have to be regulated. He’s a huge locker room presence. Zac really is prejudice to the guys who were here and bought in originally. The Blackburns adore him. He needs an OL.

He's still a decent back - that's not the issue. The issue is that he is making way too much money for the production you are getting out of him. We are paying 12 million for a running back that touches the ball 10-15 times a game. He's the 6th highest paid runningback in the NFL. 

If Mixon want's to restructure then thats fine - but I am actually all for cutting him, signing Perine for significantly less, and then drafting some speed in the later rounds of the draft. 

[KillerGoose]

(02-21-2023, 11:08 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve been hammering that day one. Monetarily is the only real reason. He’s still got it. Carolina was not a fluke. Bitching about his pass blocking works fine as his touches have to be regulated. He’s a huge locker room presence. Zac really is prejudice to the guys who were here and bought in originally. The Blackburns adore him. He needs an OL.

Carolina was definitely a fluke. We can call it an outlier if that is more palatable. I don't have much interest in getting too deep on this with you as I know you are a massive OU fan and Mixon fan by association. You were calling him an MVP candidate in the off-season which we also tangled about. However, Carolina was definitely an outlier. 



That graph shows Mixon's rolling average efficiency since 2020 compared with his weekly performance in terms of EPA per rush. The point with the red line is the Carolina game. Statistically, there are two outliers here. The Carolina game and the Chargers game last year (fumble return TD kills his EPA). 

TL;DR - That Carolina game is in no way indicative of who Mixon is. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-20-2023, 11:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: Not to mention, our run game woes go all the way back to the last several years of his run. He might know technique (he should) which is what those tweets portray, but it doesn't seem he's much on talent evals though lately though. That, or he has a secret vendetta against Mikey. He "pounded the table" for Cedric Oléhi FFS.

Yeah. Now that you mention it, having proper hand placement, good footwork and balance, while you're standing there getting a picture taken, doesn't necessarily translate to production on the field. He can know all there is to know about how it should be done but not necessarily watch a guy and be able to tell how well he will transition. 

[Soonerpeace]

(02-21-2023, 12:03 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Carolina was definitely a fluke. We can call it an outlier if that is more palatable. I don't have much interest in getting too deep on this with you as I know you are a massive OU fan and Mixon fan by association. You were calling him an MVP candidate in the off-season which we also tangled about. However, Carolina was definitely an outlier. 



That graph shows Mixon's rolling average efficiency since 2020 compared with his weekly performance in terms of EPA per rush. The point with the red line is the Carolina game. Statistically, there are two outliers here. The Carolina game and the Chargers game last year (fumble return TD kills his EPA). 

TL;DR - That Carolina game is in no way indicative of who Mixon is. 

Mixon didn’t do that without help. It’s directly correlated. What does your stats say about the blocking? Against Carolina? And Mixon’s bad games? And the line?

[KillerGoose]

(02-21-2023, 12:12 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Mixon didn’t do that without help. It’s directly correlated. What does your stats say about the blocking? Against Carolina? And Mixon’s bad games? And the line?

You're contradicting yourself here. Does Mixon "still have it", or is he simply a product of the offensive line? One is much closer to the truth than the other. You are correct that the line had a great day against Carolina. Mixon averaged 2.2 yards before contact, a significant increase over the season average of 1.2. This is all part of the argument against Mixon - he isn't special, he isn't very good. He gives you what the line gives him and occasionally, he can give you more. Due to this, he is vastly overpaid. 

If Mixon is simply a product of his offensive line, then we don't need to be banging his drum. We can get a plethora of guys to do that. By the way, 2.2 yards before contact is incredible. I want to put that into context. If Cincinnati backs were able to consistently average 2.2 yards before contact, they would have ranked #2 in the league, just behind Baltimore and better than Philadelphia. These two teams are historically good rushing teams. League average was 1.29. 

[Soonerpeace]

(02-21-2023, 12:32 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You're contradicting yourself here. Does Mixon "still have it", or is he simply a product of the offensive line? One is much closer to the truth than the other. You are correct that the line had a great day against Carolina. Mixon averaged 2.2 yards before contact, a significant increase over the season average of 1.2. This is all part of the argument against Mixon - he isn't special, he isn't very good. He gives you what the line gives him and occasionally, he can give you more. Due to this, he is vastly overpaid. 

If Mixon is simply a product of his offensive line, then we don't need to be banging his drum. We can get a plethora of guys to do that. By the way, 2.2 yards before contact is incredible. I want to put that into context. If Cincinnati backs were able to consistently average 2.2 yards before contact, they would have ranked #2 in the league, just behind Baltimore and better than Philadelphia. These two teams are historically good rushing teams. League average was 1.29. 

Well it’s a great debate. I’m not claiming he’s worth his price but neither is Bates ( currently) Jonah, Collins ( even healthy) or others. I think the best we can hope is a restructured deal. I’m adamant he’s not cut.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-21-2023, 02:02 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Don't forget the "witch hunt" against Bodine.

I'd say the game passed Alexander by. Lazor took away his run game duties, he didn't last a whole season in Dallas after he was let go, and even Lap took a shot at him after he was gone.

Ah yes, the infamous witch hunt concerning the only weak link of that offensive line. If they had just replaced him, they might've actually been able to win a playoff game. He constantly gave up pressure up the gut 

(02-21-2023, 12:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yeah. Now that you mention it, having proper hand placement, good footwork and balance, while you're standing there getting a picture taken, doesn't necessarily translate to production on the field. He can know all there is to know about how it should be done but not necessarily watch a guy and be able to tell how well he will transition. 

Exactly. Like Bengal Dude said, I think he just got passed by. Early on, he had some pretty good units on otherwise abysmal teams.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-19-2023, 02:17 PM)Trademark Wrote: The cap will obviously start affecting us,” Bengals pro scouting director Steven Radicevic said, via The Athletic’s Paul Dehner Jr. (subscription required). “We are not going to be able to go out and spend and pay a bunch of guys. We are going to try to keep our own guys.

“The last couple of years we’ve been able to add in free agency and add some pieces places where we were missing guys and add some depth, add starters through free agency. Now it’s going to be keeping our guys, sustain the roster we have and then build through the draft and waiver claims.”

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/02/bengals-unlikely-to-be-aggressive-in-free-agency

Cool, nice thread. For once this approach doesn't piss me off, it is the right way to go about things. Just cannot expect La'el Collins
to be ready by the opener or even next season at all with both MCL and ACL tears and his back along with his age on top of it.

Cut Mixon and trade for Garrett Bolles while retaining most of our own besides Bates and I am all good.

(02-19-2023, 02:35 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: First time in a long time where this is reasonable. We could still add a nice piece or two for mid/low level contracts, but we are not in a position to give out big contracts to outside FA’s this offseason. Keep our guys and figure out Burrow’s extension are the big items this offseason. Need to hit on draft picks and keep developing our young guys to put us over the top.

Truth, expected this honestly. RT must be addressed though whether it is a pick in Darnell Wright or even better a trade for Bolles
who is a proven vet.

[Bengal Dude]

(02-21-2023, 03:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ah yes, the infamous witch hunt concerning the only weak link of that offensive line. If they had just replaced him, they might've actually been able to win a playoff game. He constantly gave up pressure up the gut 


Exactly. Like Bengal Dude said, I think he just got passed by. Early on, he had some pretty good units on otherwise abysmal teams.

I always noted that Bodine would have plays where he would anchor down and lock his defender down and look good in pass pro. The problem was that it was done on run plays.

When we ran actual pass plays, it was abysmal to say the least.

[*Nately120*]

(02-20-2023, 02:02 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This is dead on, it is all about timing from here on out.  Until they have Joe's deal under wraps they cant do much.

If Burrow really wanted to cash in I'd say he should just play out 2023 and then wait to get the monster contract, or at least wait until teams give guys like Lamar Jackson huge deals that he can top.  The odds of Burrow doing something in 2023 that makes the Bengals say "Nah, you're not our guy and we are NOT going to pay you a billion bucks" seems remote.

If Burrow legitimately doesn't care about his pay grade compared to others, he can get a deal done ASAP, I guess.  Well, that and the Watson deal I guess is all the "where is my team-killing deal!?" evidence any QB needs for a long time.

[casear2727]

(02-23-2023, 06:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If Burrow really wanted to cash in I'd say he should just play out 2023 and then wait to get the monster contract, or at least wait until teams give guys like Lamar Jackson huge deals that he can top.  The odds of Burrow doing something in 2023 that makes the Bengals say "Nah, you're not our guy and we are NOT going to pay you a billion bucks" seems remote.

If Burrow legitimately doesn't care about his pay grade compared to others, he can get a deal done ASAP, I guess.  Well, that and the Watson deal I guess is all the "where is my team-killing deal!?" evidence any QB needs for a long time.

I agree.  He understands the importance of getting paid, but Joe is a little off kilter, much in the same way as other greats but in his own way.  The guy seems to think about winning nonstop, like that is the goal.  Win, and then win some more. 

I have zero doubt that he understands the potential of longterm marketing cash that comes from being a winner.  How much money has Joe Namath made from marketing deals all these decades?  If the Jets lose that Super Bowl in 1969, how much of those marketing dollars in the last 53 years would Joe NOT have made?

Marrying a model worth half a billion can make decisions easier as well I guess...

[*Nately120*]

(02-23-2023, 06:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I agree.  He understands the importance of getting paid, but Joe is a little off kilter, much in the same way as other greats but in his own way.  The guy seems to think about winning nonstop, like that is the goal.  Win, and then win some more. 

I have zero doubt that he understands the potential of longterm marketing cash that comes from being a winner.  How much money has Joe Namath made from marketing deals all these decades?  If the Jets lose that Super Bowl in 1969, how much of those marketing dollars in the last 53 years would Joe NOT have made?

Marrying a model worth half a billion can make decisions easier as well I guess...

Well we want Burrow to want to win win win here.  Right now it seems like the best way for Burrow to win would be to be the QB for the 49ers and play for league minimum.

The guy would probably get even more commercials and lifetime exposure if he won a bunch of SBs for the Cowboys or Steelers or a NY team, too.  We just have to keep him here.  I think he will stay here, but again, I hope he's thinking about football and not making commercials when he's 70.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(02-19-2023, 11:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't forget just because they got back-to-back top-5 picks and got Burrow and Chase. The Bengals have still not been good drafters when they don't have easy blue chip prospect choices sitting there at the top. 7/11ths of the Bengals starting defense in 2022 came from the outside. The only 2 OL who were any good on the Bengals came from the outside. There's huge sections of this team that they have simply outsourced. It worked, but it doesn't mean the Bengals 4 scouts are suddenly good at drafting and they haven't had to rely on other team's players to become good.

You are joking, right?

Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and CTB are all 2nd round guys. 

Logan Wilson, Pratt, Hubbard, and Ossai 3rd round. 

Volson & ADG & Cam Sample in the 4th. 

McPherson in the 5th. 

Evans in the 6th. 

Bailey in the 7th. 

[Soonerpeace]

(02-23-2023, 07:23 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are joking, right?

Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and CTB are all 2nd round guys. 

Logan Wilson, Pratt, Hubbard, and Ossai 3rd round. 

Volson & ADG & Cam Sample in the 4th. 

McPherson in the 5th. 

Evans in the 6th. 

Bailey in the 7th. 

He’s had several of these WTH’s and yet some really good ones as well. He’s bi-polar

[Frank Booth]

(02-23-2023, 07:23 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are joking, right?

Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and CTB are all 2nd round guys. 

Logan Wilson, Pratt, Hubbard, and Ossai 3rd round. 

Volson & ADG & Cam Sample in the 4th. 

McPherson in the 5th. 

Evans in the 6th. 

Bailey in the 7th. 

Are you saying Evans is good?