03-17-2023, 09:55 AM
Hello Bengals fans. Long long long time lurker and Chiefs fan. I thought I would chime in on this. I am a Chiefs fan, so I am sure my bias will be reflected in what I write here, but I am trying to give an objective viewpoint to this. I also don't know your team and specifically your O-line that well as I write this.
Mr. Montoya here, has several quotes that are in line with my thinking and this one sums it up fairly well.
I also agree with this point. The contract the Bengals signed Brown to, isn't a bad contract at all. It's a good deal for what you are getting...which is a good OT with experience and who has been mostly healthy, is still young and is a good dude. No one anywhere should be complaining about the money part of this....The Bengals did very well in this regard.
As noted in several comments....he got paid what his market was because he is absolutely obsessed with playing LT, you'll hear quite a bit in the coming days about him wanting to play LT to honor his father etc. It's a big deal to him.
Mr. Montoya answered in the thread, but yes, the Jaguars have his replacement on hand on a rookie contract is the short answer.
Alot of people put way way too much stock in PFF grades. Kansas City fans certainly love to point these out when it says good things about a KC player. I ignore them, good or bad. Too often the rating they have just doesnt ever quite match up with what I see. This is no exception. As noted in ohter parts of the thread, QB sacks is every bit as much a QB stat as it is a O lineman stat....and even more than that, coaches call plays and set things up to work around weaknesses and strengths of their players. It's also been noted that Browns performance has been documented to improve toward the end of seasons. I am SURE some of that is getting better and adjusted with each passing week, but I am hear to tell you, in Browns case, it is also because Andy Reid changed up the system to work around Browns weaknesses. .....but, the best way to determine this for yourself....and not take my word for it, or PFF's grades at face value....just go watch Brown VS the Bengals and let your eyes tell you what they see. Go find any Chiefs or Ravens Brown footage VS Myles Garrett. I won't tell you what you'll see....you are just as smart or smarter than I am to know what you're looking at.
KC offered Brown a good deal....someone posted it in this thread....after the 2021 season. He turned that down, KC tagged him, and after this season, they had judged Brown to be a player that had plateued as a LT and wanted him to move to RT for a deal, probably similar to what he signed for with you guys. As I said above, Brown is hellbent on being a LT and Cincy promised that to him. KC would not, the Bears would not....can't speak for Pittsburg....but clearly Cincy was the team willing to BOTH keep him at LT and of the teams willing to do that, Cincy made the best offer.
I'm not hear to piss in your skyline chili and tell you this is a bad deal for the Bengals. It's not. You got a good player at a really good price.
Brown is a serviceable LT. He's a really good locker room guy. Has good character...you'll be glad he's part of your community.
Brown handles bull rusher types well...if you can't beat Brown with speed, you aren't beating him. He'll drive you into the ground. He won't get pushed back into burrows lap. That simply doesn't happen. Brown is a big strong beast of a man. He's a good but not great run blocker. Doesn't get into space or second level..and isn't particularly useful in the screen game. Needs to be helped with chip, or having the guard shade the inside against speed so Brown can try and use every bit of what little athleticism he has to get outside. Even then, he gets beat aroudn the edge consistantly....and he compounds that by giving up once he's beaten aroudn the corner...so that if the QB escapes, Browns not going to be efforting to re-establish any kind of helpful additoinal blocking. Once he's beaten, he's done. You might note this season KC had way fewer long pass plays and Mahomes held the ball for less time than he ever has. That was by design. Ried / Mahomes have ALWAYS wanted to be a big play, down field, long developing routes type offense. They changed that up, in part becasue of all the cover 2 high they saw, but also because both OT were poor pass protectors when called on to operate this sort of offesne, so KC ran a whole bunch of short stuff. I don't see the Bengals as a team that wants to run a whole bunch of quick, short passes etc....built as you guys are with big play WR's....
Bottom line - If the Bengals have the idea that they are putting Orlando Brown on the left side, and have no plans to chip, or commit the guard to help, or deliberately shorten routes and play designs that get the ball out quick, you'll be dissappointed with Brown. He is NOT a guy you can put on an island over there and forget about it. If you believe you got a 16 million dollar servicable LT that can play well within the limits of his athletic abilities with some help, then you'll be happy about his play and what he brings off the field.
And last thing to consider - Orlando Brown was tight with Mahomes. He was one of the dudes that stands with the groom at his wedding etc. Brown often pointed that out in interviews and twitter posts. Just as Burrow is the man in Cincy...you know Mahomes is the guy in KC you want to keep happy etc....IF KC and by default, Patrick Mahomes, was good letting this guy go....a guy generally considered to be a good friend of Pats.....just something to consider as well.
My two cents.
***As for KC singing Taylor***
It's a big payday for him...and risking for KC, moving this guy from RT to LT. They see him as young, and athletic, and are somewhat betting that he's an ascending player who played in Doug Pedersons KC style offesne....well. This was also the 4th offesne he's had in 4 years. Just as I ask you all to use PFF grades with caution and watch film....same here. I can see why KC thinks they can make this work, but I can also see where there are some reasons to be concerned about it. It's a risk compounded by the big contract. I don't know how well it will work or not, but KC clearly was willing to let Brown walk, AND then pay Taylor this huge deal. Will be interesting to watch this upcoming season how it all works out.
(03-16-2023, 12:33 AM)MadMaxMontoya Wrote: I’m not a very big fan of Orlando Brown Jr either….while he definitely is a solid addition to the online celebrating him to be an elite left tackle he is not, he is better suited to be a right tackle. He’s solid but nowhere near elite as a left tackle, definite over pay if you are expecting him to be an elite left tackle. There is a reason why the chiefs went out and signed Juwaan Taylor over just keeping Orlando Brown Jr….they did not want him protecting Mahomes blind side and wanted to pay him less and move him to right tackle but Orlando Brown Jr wants to be a left tackle and paid as such. I know a couple of chiefs fans who did not want to see another season of having him be their left tackle. It’s exactly why they went out and replaced him with Taylor…..and then you have the Bears who were trying to acquire him but also wanted to move him to right tackle and didn’t see him as a left tackle so in the end he went here where he could be a left tackle. And don’t get me wrong he will do fine and is an upgrade. Really good run blocker but as a pass protector on the left side people on here are highly overating him. We will see but I don’t think he is going to help burrow’s blind side as much as people think.
Mr. Montoya here, has several quotes that are in line with my thinking and this one sums it up fairly well.
(03-16-2023, 12:40 AM)Synric Wrote: I get where everyone is coming from Orlando Brown is not Trent Williams, Laremy Tunsil, Jordan Mailata. Brown is a tier 2 free agent and got paid like one. He is an a step up from what the Bengals have at Offensive Tackle without having to force a 1st round tackle and depend on a rookie.
I also agree with this point. The contract the Bengals signed Brown to, isn't a bad contract at all. It's a good deal for what you are getting...which is a good OT with experience and who has been mostly healthy, is still young and is a good dude. No one anywhere should be complaining about the money part of this....The Bengals did very well in this regard.
(03-16-2023, 12:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hell yeah for $16m/yr. Didn't think he'd be anywhere near that low in this FA.
As noted in several comments....he got paid what his market was because he is absolutely obsessed with playing LT, you'll hear quite a bit in the coming days about him wanting to play LT to honor his father etc. It's a big deal to him.
(03-16-2023, 01:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did the Jags let Ju'Wan walk?
Serious question
Mr. Montoya answered in the thread, but yes, the Jaguars have his replacement on hand on a rookie contract is the short answer.
(03-16-2023, 01:54 AM)pulses Wrote: PFF last year of 58.7 2021 was 60.4 and 2020 was 56.5He gave up 28 sacks in 4 years.
Alot of people put way way too much stock in PFF grades. Kansas City fans certainly love to point these out when it says good things about a KC player. I ignore them, good or bad. Too often the rating they have just doesnt ever quite match up with what I see. This is no exception. As noted in ohter parts of the thread, QB sacks is every bit as much a QB stat as it is a O lineman stat....and even more than that, coaches call plays and set things up to work around weaknesses and strengths of their players. It's also been noted that Browns performance has been documented to improve toward the end of seasons. I am SURE some of that is getting better and adjusted with each passing week, but I am hear to tell you, in Browns case, it is also because Andy Reid changed up the system to work around Browns weaknesses. .....but, the best way to determine this for yourself....and not take my word for it, or PFF's grades at face value....just go watch Brown VS the Bengals and let your eyes tell you what they see. Go find any Chiefs or Ravens Brown footage VS Myles Garrett. I won't tell you what you'll see....you are just as smart or smarter than I am to know what you're looking at.
(03-16-2023, 05:55 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Seems your info is not completely accurate and that KC was working on a long-term deal with Brown Jr. but they were not coming up with enough guaranteed money which is why he opted to hit free agency. KC was also considering the franchise tag for Brown Jr. So it does not appear there is much more to the situation than you are reporting.
KC offered Brown a good deal....someone posted it in this thread....after the 2021 season. He turned that down, KC tagged him, and after this season, they had judged Brown to be a player that had plateued as a LT and wanted him to move to RT for a deal, probably similar to what he signed for with you guys. As I said above, Brown is hellbent on being a LT and Cincy promised that to him. KC would not, the Bears would not....can't speak for Pittsburg....but clearly Cincy was the team willing to BOTH keep him at LT and of the teams willing to do that, Cincy made the best offer.
I'm not hear to piss in your skyline chili and tell you this is a bad deal for the Bengals. It's not. You got a good player at a really good price.
Brown is a serviceable LT. He's a really good locker room guy. Has good character...you'll be glad he's part of your community.
Brown handles bull rusher types well...if you can't beat Brown with speed, you aren't beating him. He'll drive you into the ground. He won't get pushed back into burrows lap. That simply doesn't happen. Brown is a big strong beast of a man. He's a good but not great run blocker. Doesn't get into space or second level..and isn't particularly useful in the screen game. Needs to be helped with chip, or having the guard shade the inside against speed so Brown can try and use every bit of what little athleticism he has to get outside. Even then, he gets beat aroudn the edge consistantly....and he compounds that by giving up once he's beaten aroudn the corner...so that if the QB escapes, Browns not going to be efforting to re-establish any kind of helpful additoinal blocking. Once he's beaten, he's done. You might note this season KC had way fewer long pass plays and Mahomes held the ball for less time than he ever has. That was by design. Ried / Mahomes have ALWAYS wanted to be a big play, down field, long developing routes type offense. They changed that up, in part becasue of all the cover 2 high they saw, but also because both OT were poor pass protectors when called on to operate this sort of offesne, so KC ran a whole bunch of short stuff. I don't see the Bengals as a team that wants to run a whole bunch of quick, short passes etc....built as you guys are with big play WR's....
Bottom line - If the Bengals have the idea that they are putting Orlando Brown on the left side, and have no plans to chip, or commit the guard to help, or deliberately shorten routes and play designs that get the ball out quick, you'll be dissappointed with Brown. He is NOT a guy you can put on an island over there and forget about it. If you believe you got a 16 million dollar servicable LT that can play well within the limits of his athletic abilities with some help, then you'll be happy about his play and what he brings off the field.
And last thing to consider - Orlando Brown was tight with Mahomes. He was one of the dudes that stands with the groom at his wedding etc. Brown often pointed that out in interviews and twitter posts. Just as Burrow is the man in Cincy...you know Mahomes is the guy in KC you want to keep happy etc....IF KC and by default, Patrick Mahomes, was good letting this guy go....a guy generally considered to be a good friend of Pats.....just something to consider as well.
My two cents.
***As for KC singing Taylor***
It's a big payday for him...and risking for KC, moving this guy from RT to LT. They see him as young, and athletic, and are somewhat betting that he's an ascending player who played in Doug Pedersons KC style offesne....well. This was also the 4th offesne he's had in 4 years. Just as I ask you all to use PFF grades with caution and watch film....same here. I can see why KC thinks they can make this work, but I can also see where there are some reasons to be concerned about it. It's a risk compounded by the big contract. I don't know how well it will work or not, but KC clearly was willing to let Brown walk, AND then pay Taylor this huge deal. Will be interesting to watch this upcoming season how it all works out.
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