Jonah Williams Requests Trade

[OSUfan]

(03-19-2023, 12:58 PM)SladeX Wrote: Here’s my thoughts on Carman, reading the comments and various viewpoints
1) He did just fine in the playoffs. Wish we had a bigger sample size.
2) He has had some VERY nice flashes of dominance. Including the playoffs.
3) He seems to have matured
4) He might be able to develop at guard as well as at T

Given this I think he should be given every chance to win RT. If he doesn’t make it, he is the swing T, 6th lineman (I think he would excel here, and enjoy it).

My 2 cents

Completely agree!

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Carman is playable at LT and did a fine job in the POs. At worst, he is a capable backup for Brown and LT is set. At best, he continues to develop and wins the RT job.

Jonah is a slightly above average LT when healthy, which is 50% of the time so far. He looked like crap BEFORE the kneecap dislocation last year. But he does deserve credit for valiantly playing throught it, and it obviously hurt his performance. Regardless, best case scenario with him is he realizes playing RT is the best thing for his market value is to play well at RT this year. But it is 1 year max. He's gone after this year. He does not want to platly RT, and LT is spoken for here.

Collins is signed for 2 more years. But had a major injury late last year and may not be ready to start. He was our best run blocker but struggled in pass pro.

If Adeniji or Ford play, we are in trouble. Both are subpar players in my view. Though Adeniji at least tries to play where needed.

For me, I keep Brown, Carman, and Collins. With Collins likely starting the year on PUP, that leaves 2 spots. Jonah is one if he is here. I only trade him if we are gonna aggressively use the cash in FA in quality players and we get a third or better.

Adeniji vs Ford for the last spot. Smith is gone unless he can show he is ready to actually play, and can play OG.

We need a replacement for Scharping.

[CKwi88]

Can't blame him. Hope we can find a trade partner and make a deal that works for all sides.

[coachmcneil71]

(03-19-2023, 02:35 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Carman is playable at LT and did a fine job in the POs. At worst, he is a capable backup for Brown and LT is set. At best, he continues to develop and wins the RT job.

Jonah is a slightly above average LT when healthy, which is 50% of the time so far. He looked like crap BEFORE the kneecap dislocation last year. But he does deserve credit for valiantly playing throught it, and it obviously hurt his performance. Regardless, best case scenario with him is he realizes playing RT is the best thing for his market value is to play well at RT this year. But it is 1 year max. He's gone after this year. He does not want to platly RT, and LT is spoken for here.

Collins is signed for 2 more years. But had a major injury late last year and may not be ready to start. He was our best run blocker but struggled in pass pro.

If Adeniji or Ford play, we are in trouble. Both are subpar players in my view. Though Adeniji at least tries to play where needed.

For me, I keep Brown, Carman, and Collins. With Collins likely starting the year on PUP, that leaves 2 spots. Jonah is one if he is here. I only trade him if we are gonna aggressively use the cash in FA in quality players and we get a third or better.

Adeniji vs Ford for the last spot. Smith is gone unless he can show he is ready to actually play, and can play OG.

We need a replacement for Scharping.

Jonah doesn't want to be here. Plus, he's coming off of an injury and one that could possibly linger for as long as he wants it to. If you get my drift. Gotta make the move with Jonah for entirely too many reasons; cap space, morale, ect.. Use the money that's freed up and pump it back into the Oline. As you mentioned Scharping should be replaced.

Lastly, trust in the process. Carman earned some stripes down the stretch. I mean, the kid is starting to improve. Ford has a new home and a new start with added motivation, a chance to start at RT.  A simple thing like this can do wonders for a new employee. Adeniji is their current 'Swiss Army Knife" for the Oline. 

Use Jonah's dough to grab a good interior lineman, then draft Jones or Wright. That would go a long way in solving some line issues.

[Soonerpeace]

The smartest thing to do is find someone who could use a LT and swap first round picks with Jonah included. There find a RT or one of these generational TE’s

[OSUfan]

(03-19-2023, 03:58 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The smartest thing to do is find someone who could use a LT and swap first round picks with Jonah included. There find a RT or one of these generational TE’s

You don't need to swap picks to do that. You can trade Jonah and obtain another pick or picks. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-19-2023, 02:52 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Jonah doesn't want to be here. Plus, he's coming off of an injury and one that could possibly linger for as long as he wants it to. If you get my drift. Gotta make the move with Jonah for entirely too many reasons; cap space, morale, ect.. Use the money that's freed up and pump it back into the Oline. As you mentioned Scharping should be replaced.

Lastly, trust in the process. Carman earned some stripes down the stretch. I mean, the kid is starting to improve. Ford has a new home and a new start with added motivation, a chance to start at RT.  A simple thing like this can do wonders for a new employee. Adeniji is their current 'Swiss Army Knife" for the Oline. 

Use Jonah's dough to grab a good interior lineman, then draft Jones or Wright. That would go a long way in solving some line issues.

Good post, but I kinda disagree on some stuff. 

I am not necessarily buying the idea that Jonah would sit out/sabotage the team next year if he does not get traded. He is not in a good place now, but September is a long ways away. If he is willing to play hard and not be a locker room cancer, we don't have to trade him. 

Regarding reivesting the money. We are not gonna spend starting level money on a reserve OG. Nothing close to what Scott is making  much less Jonah's $12.6. There is not an IOL worth half of Jonah's salary left on the board. Seumalo just got $8 per year, and he was the best on the board. Outside Dalton Schultz or Gardner-Johnson, there isn't a $12 mil guy left on the board anywhere. And given the depth of the TE class and the fact ee just signed Scott, not sure a high $ signing makes a ton of sense at either spot. 

I guess my long winded point is that we are likely gonna utilize Jonah's salary by splitting it up into several smaller signings. A reserve DE and OG. A TE2 type. Backup RB. Apple. We can likely accomplish all that without trading him. Unless we can land a starting level FA with that $$ (or a high pick who helps immediately), we are better on the field next year if Jonah plays. I think that is how the FO views it, and it is hard to disagree. We are in win now mode, and should be. 

Plus, even if we want a trade, any other team can just take Wright or Jones as well. And save money doing so, and have control for longer. And they pick before us. 

I do not know how it shakes out. I'd love to get a nice Day 2 pick and land Schultz (or Byard if Tennessee cuts him) with Jonah's $$$. I just am not sure that is realistic. If it ends up being bit players, I'd rather have Jonah at RT from jump. 

[NATI BENGALS]

I want King Henry. Titans need a LT and I'm sure Henry isn't thrilled to be part of a rebuild. Both are due a lot of money in the last year of their contract. Henry would get to compete for a Super Bowl. Jonah gets to stay at LT and try to earn a big deal in his contract year.

[TheFan]

(03-19-2023, 05:27 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I want King Henry. Titans need a LT and I'm sure Henry isn't thrilled to be part of a rebuild. Both are due a lot of money in the last year of their contract. Henry would get to compete for a Super Bowl. Jonah gets to stay at LT and  try to earn a big deal in his contract year.

That would mean a complete offense scheme change and significantly decreasing the use of our current top 3 weapons. 

[Soonerpeace]

(03-19-2023, 04:11 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You don't need to swap picks to do that. You can trade Jonah and obtain another pick or picks. 

I disagree. If they need a tackle they’ll just use the pick to snag one for a lot less money. This way they get a tackle and still get to fill another position with a good player.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-19-2023, 05:27 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I want King Henry. Titans need a LT and I'm sure Henry isn't thrilled to be part of a rebuild. Both are due a lot of money in the last year of their contract. Henry would get to compete for a Super Bowl. Jonah gets to stay at LT and try to earn a big deal in his contract year.

They’d rather spend that money elsewhere. If I was for sure our run blocking was going to be much better then maybe. Hell Bo Jackson couldn’t do squat with those holes.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-19-2023, 05:38 PM)TheFan Wrote: That would mean a complete offense scheme change and significantly decreasing the use of our current top 3 weapons. 

Not really.  Think back to the last few years that Bettis was with the Steelers.  They built a lead with the passing attack, and then handed off to the Bus to idle the clock away on opponents.

[TheFan]

(03-19-2023, 05:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not really.  Think back to the last few years that Bettis was with the Steelers.  They built a lead with the passing attack, and then handed off to the Bus to idle the clock away on opponents.

That was by far not a passing offense. Bettis didn't get the bulk of the carries but in 2005 (his last year) they were still a significantly run heavy team. They had 549 rushing attempts to only 379 passing attempts. Last year we had 610 passing attempts to 399 rushing. 

Like I said, we would be completely changing out scheme. It wasn't until 2009 when they started to become a primary passing team. Even after that there's been multiple years with more rushes than passes.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-19-2023, 05:38 PM)TheFan Wrote: That would mean a complete offense scheme change and significantly decreasing the use of our current top 3 weapons. 

(03-19-2023, 06:01 PM)TheFan Wrote: That was by far not a passing offense. Bettis didn't get the bulk of the carries but in 2005 (his last year) they were still a significantly run heavy team. They had 549 rushing attempts to only 379 passing attempts. Last year we had 610 passing attempts to 399 rushing. 

Like I said, we would be completely changing out scheme. It wasn't until 2009 when they started to become a primary passing team. Even after that there's been multiple years with more rushes than passes.

Why would we have to change?

We had 399 rushing attempts last year. Give Henry 275-300 of those carries and live happily ever after.

[KillerGoose]

(03-19-2023, 05:27 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I want King Henry. Titans need a LT and I'm sure Henry isn't thrilled to be part of a rebuild. Both are due a lot of money in the last year of their contract. Henry would get to compete for a Super Bowl. Jonah gets to stay at LT and  try to earn a big deal in his contract year.

I don't think Henry really moves the needle much, honestly. He is an older back with quite a bit of mileage, not really known for his receiving capabilities and is expensive. He'd be fun to have, but I don't want him here. Cincinnati would be better suited with a smaller receiving back with pass blocking capabilities IMO. Running back isn't a very important position, so I'd prefer to not spend money on it. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(03-19-2023, 05:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not really.  Think back to the last few years that Bettis was with the Steelers.  They built a lead with the passing attack, and then handed off to the Bus to idle the clock away on opponents.

Yes. This. All good offenses have this ability to run the ball and move the chains and it’s especially important in the AFC North when late season weather conditions can dictate a run first offense.

Also, we need to admit the Bengals still have an issue running the ball in the Red Zone especially near the goal line. Having a big strong back who can attack a defense downhill is the best way to score in these situations.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-19-2023, 07:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don't think Henry really moves the needle much, honestly. He is an older back with quite a bit of mileage, not really known for his receiving capabilities and is expensive. He'd be fun to have, but I don't want him here. Cincinnati would be better suited with a smaller receiving back with pass blocking capabilities IMO. Running back isn't a very important position, so I'd prefer to not spend money on it. 

Really? No interest in Joe Burrow with one of the biggest freaks to ever play the RB position next to or behind him?

You gonna go ahead and load the box to stop Henry?
Or are you gonna keep playing back to stop the lethal pass game?

[TheFan]

(03-19-2023, 06:41 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Why would we have to change?

We had 399 rushing attempts last year. Give Henry 275-300 of those carries and live happily ever after.

Because you don't trade a LT for a player that isn't going improve your team much. He only averaged 4.3 and 4.4 ypc the past 2 years. He has a ton of milage and likely has seen his best years. 

[KillerGoose]

(03-19-2023, 07:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Really? No interest in Joe Burrow with one of the biggest freaks to ever play the RB position next to or behind him?

You gonna go ahead and load the box to stop Henry?
Or are you gonna keep playing back to stop the lethal pass game?

Not really, no. I would rather roll the dice on a young back from the draft than take on Henry. Give me a smaller receiving back who can pass block and make plays in space over a bulldozer like Henry. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Isn’t Henry’s cap hit like $16 million this season? That’s way too much for a soon to be 30 year old RB. We shouldn’t even be paying Mixon what we do in this offense.

I’d much rather just draft one.