2023 OL Draft Prospects Group Assessments

[OSUfan]

(03-10-2023, 11:12 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think in Wright you have a swing OT that will be good maybe great.  In Jones you have a 10-year RT that may be next Big Willie.  In Skoronski, you have an 10-year all-pro LG that will be good at LT/RT but maybe not great.  I can't imagine that he would be worse than JW.  

I am a huge Ohio State fan but there is a reason that Jones did not participate in the movement drills. I believe in Wright you have the next Big Willie. Jones is going to struggle with speed in the NFL and he is going to extremely limit the schemes you run offensively as he does not have the athleticism to pull and be a big mover in your blocking. If you are a power running team then Jones may well be a good fit for you. Outside of that I would take Wright any day over Jones.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-11-2023, 04:29 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I am a huge Ohio State fan but there is a reason that Jones did not participate in the movement drills. I believe in Wright you have the next Big Willie. Jones is going to struggle with speed in the NFL and he is going to extremely limit the schemes you run offensively as he does not have the athleticism to pull and be a big mover in your blocking. If you are a power running team then Jones may well be a good fit for you. Outside of that I would take Wright any day over Jones.

Agree. Wright can play either side & play in more types of schemes. Plus, he shut Anderson's water off vs Bama. D. Jones also played well vs Georgia, but is RT only and more scheme limited. 

Wright over Jones all day. Though he may not be there when we pick. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Well, with Brown in the fold, I think we can take LT (Harrison) off theboard for us. RT less likely, too, if we are moving Jonah over, but I would not rule that out.

IOL also less likely if we are thinkin of moving Collins/Williams inside.

[*Synric*]

(03-16-2023, 02:55 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, with Brown in the fold, I think we can take LT (Harrison) off theboard for us. RT less likely, too, if we are moving Jonah over, but I would not rule that out.

IOL also less likely if we are thinkin of moving Collins/Williams inside.

Maybe. I still wouldn't mind seeing them get someone with some IOL versatility that can compete for a LG late day two like Emil Ekiyor.... If Joe Tippmann is there at 60 it would be hard to pass up especially considering he has a skillset much needed on the OL.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

By signing Orlando Brown, Jr, does that suggest the Bengals will be more of a gap scheme running game versus zone? And does that affect the type of Olinemen they may target in the draft?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-16-2023, 03:00 AM)Synric Wrote: Maybe. I still wouldn't mind seeing them get someone with some IOL versatility that can compete for a LG late day two like Emil Ekiyor.... If Joe Tippmann is there at 60 it would be hard to pass up especially considering he has a skillset much needed on the OL.

Ekiyor or Tippmann would be great if Avila doesn't fall to 60.

I would still love Darnell Wright for RT but it is looking more and more like he won't be there when we pick at 28.

The Brown signing definitely opened up the Draft a lot.

(03-16-2023, 02:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: By signing Orlando Brown, Jr, does that suggest the Bengals will be more of a gap scheme running game versus zone? And does that affect the type of Olinemen they may target in the draft?

We should try and stick with the Gap scheme, seemed every player played much better in it than the Wide Zone and yes, Orlando 
Brown isn't athletic either, so clearly a Gap scheme LT.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Thought I would try to update/bump these after a week of FA.

Also, maybe alert posters to stop making individual threads for each prospect & try to use the positional prospect threads? Maybe?

Anyway, after a week of FA, we have 12 OL signed.

OT (7): Brown Jr, J. Williams, Carman, Collins (I), Adeniji, Ford, Smith
OG (3): Cappa, Volson; Scharping
OC (2): Karras, T. Hill

We are not gonna carry 12. Collins & Jonah are both currently injured, though Williams should be good by June. And Jonah has requested a trade.

At the moment, the Brown signing has strengthened the OT position. Ford is listed as an OT, but has some guard experience.

Even if Jonah/Collins stay, not sure either is a long term solution at RT.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

When the numbers for Scharping & Ford become available, I will post another update. With the salary info.

[pulses]

(03-16-2023, 03:00 AM)Synric Wrote: Maybe. I still wouldn't mind seeing them get someone with some IOL versatility that can compete for a LG late day two like Emil Ekiyor.... If Joe Tippmann is there at 60 it would be hard to pass up especially considering he has a skillset much needed on the OL.

Tippman or Avila I would be fine with.

[NATI BENGALS]

Is Dawand still 6'8" around 375lbs?

If so. Still #1 in my heart.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

OK, updated with contract info for Scharping & Ford.  


A.  Position Group #1: Offensive Line



I.  2022 Roster Status
Currently on 53 = 9. Carried 10 until Collins injury.
Currently on IR = 2.
Practice Squad = 3.
--------------
Starters: J. Williams (LT), Volson (LG), Karras (OC), Cappa (RG), Collins (RT)
Reserves: Adeniji (OT), Scharping (G), T. Hill (OC), Carman (OT/G), Smith (OT)
PS/IR: Brown (C, IR), Prince (OT, PS), Cochran (OT, PS), Gilliam (G, PS)
__________________________


II.  2023 Roster Status

A. Signed = 12 + 3. Cap Hit; Dead Cap; FA Year/Type

1. O. Brown (LT, Starter); $10,354,000; $31,100,000; 2027 UFA
2. J. Williams (RT, Starter); $12,604,000; $12,604,000; 2024 UFA 
3. A. Cappa (RG, Starter); $8,750,000; $6,750,000; 2026 UFA
4. T. Karras (C, Starter); $5,600,000; $2,000,000; 2025 UFA
5. C. Volson (LG, Starter); $1,034,221; $492,663; 2026 UFA
----------------
6. L. Collins (RT, Reserve, Injured); $9,384,306; $3,333,334; 2025 UFA
7. J. Carman (OT4, Reserve); $2,031,804; $1,389,072; 2025 UFA 
8. M. Scharping (OG3, Reserve); $1,280,000; $175,000; 2024 UFA 
----------------
9. T. Hill (C2, Reserve); $988,088; $96,076; 2025 UFA
10. H. Adeniji (OT3, Reserve); $1,062,971; $52,971; 2024 UFA
11. C. Ford (OT/OG, Reserve); $940,000; $0; 2024 UFA
12. D. Smith (OT, Reserve); $1,064,836; $249,672; 2025 UFA
-------------
13. B. Brown (C/OG, Practice Squad); $756,666; $13,334; 2025 RFA 
14. D. Cochran (OT, Practice Squad); $750,000; $0; 2024 FA 
15. N. Gilliam (OG, Practice Squad); $750,000; $0; 2024 FA

--------------

B. Unsigned = 1 (+3 PS). 2022 Cap Hit; FA Type.

1. I. Prince (OT, PS); UFA
______________________

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

We only carried 10 last year. We have 12 signed plus the the PS guys. Though Collins & Jonah are coming off injury. Jonah shouod be good by June but Collins may be out for the beginning of the year. And of course, Jonah has requested a trade post-Orlando Brown signing.

4/5ths of the starters are locked, with RT the question mark with Jonah's trade request and Collins' injury. Neither seems like a long term solution at RT. Jonah immediately balked at playing RT and wanted out. I doubt he would re-up here with Brown at LT moving forward. Collins is signed through 2024. Both guys make a lot of money (over $21 mil combined) and neither was very good last year. Though not awful. Thinking of ways to pay Highins, Burrow, Wilson & others has to start with getting Jonah or Collins or both off the books. Be it this year or next.

Problem is, what we have behind them at OT is either unimpressive (Adeniji, Ford) or unproven (Carman, Smith). Though Varman showed some promise last year, it was all at LT. I don't see us getting rid of both Jonah & Collins this year. One, max. Especially at this late date, it is not like there are fantastic FA options to spend on right now, especially on the OL. We won't leave protecting Burrow up to a draft crapshoot plus Carman MAYBE being able to play RT. Maybe if we scored a plug & play RT in the draft, but that looks increasingly unlikely.

Among the reserves, I only really see Carman & Scharping as safe. Carman showed enough last year for me to be comfortable with him as the backup LT. And enough for a look-see at RT if Jonah is traded while Collins is out. We may not need to draft a RT, we may already have one. Scharping is the only reserve G we have, with Ford listed as a T and orefering to play there.

I think a draft pick could knock Hill off the roster, and he may be battling with a now healthy Brown anyway. There is not room for all of Adeniji, Smith, and Ford to make it. Though if Collins is on PUP & Jonah is traded, there would be. Ford would have to function as the #4 guard.

We'll have more clarity on Jonah soon. If he stays, I think it is unlikely we take a OT in Rd1. A stud would have to fall to us. Mid rounds, I think TE, CB, DE, RB, WR, and IOL have better value. Though maybe Mauch or Bergerson are worth it. Dawand Jones is a stretch at #28 and gone by #60. If one of the nice IOL guys are there at #60 (Avila, Schmitz, Tipperman, Wypler) I would think hard on it. But we need TE & pass rush more ATM.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2023, 06:54 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We only carried 10 last year. We have 12 signed plus the the PS guys. Though Collins & Jonah are coming off injury. Jonah shouod be good by June but Collins may be out for the beginning of the year. And of course, Jonah has requested a trade post-Orlando Brown signing.

4/5ths of the starters are locked, with RT the question mark with Jonah's trade request and Collins' injury. Neither seems like a long term solution at RT. Jonah immediately balked at playing RT and wanted out. I doubt he would re-up here with Brown at LT moving forward. Collins is signed through 2024. Both guys make a lot of money (over $21 mil combined) and neither was very good last year. Though not awful. Thinking of ways to pay Highins, Burrow, Wilson & others has to start with getting Jonah or Collins or both off the books. Be it this year or next.

Problem is, what we have behind them at OT is either unimpressive (Adeniji, Ford) or unproven (Carman, Smith). Though Varman showed some promise last year, it was all at LT. I don't see us getting rid of both Jonah & Collins this year. One, max. Especially at this late date, it is not like there are fantastic FA options to spend on right now, especially on the OL. We won't leave protecting Burrow up to a draft crapshoot plus Carman MAYBE being able to play RT.  Maybe if we scored a plug & play RT in the draft, but that looks increasingly unlikely.

Among the reserves, I only really see Carman & Scharping as safe. Carman showed enough last year for me to be comfortable with him as the backup LT. And enough for a look-see at RT if Jonah is traded while Collins is out. We may not need to draft a RT, we may already have one. Scharping is the only reserve G we have, with Ford listed as a T and orefering to play there.

I think a draft pick could knock Hill off the roster, and he may be battling with a now healthy Brown anyway. There is not room for all of Adeniji, Smith, and Ford to make it. Though if Collins is on PUP & Jonah is traded, there would be. Ford would have to function as the #4 guard.

We'll have more clarity on Jonah soon. If he stays, I think it is unlikely we take a OT in Rd1. A stud would have to fall to us. Mid rounds, I think TE, CB, DE, RB, WR, and IOL have better value. Though maybe Mauch or Bergerson are worth it. Dawand Jones is a stretch at #28 and gone by #60. If one of the nice IOL guys are there at #60 (Avila, Schmitz, Tipperman, Wypler) I would think hard on it. But we need TE & pass rush more ATM.

I look for the team to draft possibly 2 OL in the upcoming draft, as well as sign 2-4 priority UDFAs to the position group.  The team is in a bad spot, as far as having to go into free agency to comprise the bulk of their OL starters.  With a franchise QB about to get paid, as well as attempting to keep not one, but a pair of elite WRs on the team, position groups like OL need to be drafted and developed type of players.

Carman showed enough promise for me to still have hope for him, Volson exceeded my expectations.  The team couldn't have said it louder that Jonah Williams was a failure to launch at LT by going out and buying Brown Jr.  We have two more seasons with Karras and three with Cappa before it will be time to see what the new crop of draft and develop interior OL look like for the Bengals. Even having invested in La'el Collins, RT is still a tremendous question mark heading into this season.  Hopefully between Williams, Ford and Collins they can get it figured out for the next season.  However, I'm still putting my betting money on the Bengals drafting a Tackle in the first 3 rounds, one that they see as being the RT for the next 5-10 years.

Btw, you're doing a great job of keeping us all posted on the position group "as it stands" throughout the offseason process, nice job.  

[OSUfan]

I believe that if he is available at #28 that Darnell Wright is the obvious choice for the Bengals and that is even if Dawand Jones is there also. Darnell is a complete RT and I believe he would lock the spot down for many years just like Willie Anderson did. I think Jones fits a team that operates out of a pure power run scheme but he is not a guy that you are going to use for pulling or blocking secondary targets. I would actually pass on Jones if Wright were off the boards.

Outside of the first I believe there are many other linemen that could hold real value for this offense either starting or as much needed depth.

Steve Avila - he could be a consideration in the second round for the interior. You flat will not see this guy outpowered.

Matthew Bergeron - I am surprised there has not been more chatter about this guy as a RT option in the second. He is experienced at both tackle spots and I think he could start day 1.

Joe Tippmann - A good prospect in the 2nd and steal if he slid to the 3rd. May be the most versatile lineman in the draft and would definitely be the heir apparent to Karras. Or if they really felt strongly about him then Karras could go to LG where he has played before and Volson could compete for the RT spot.

Wanya Morris - I would look at Morris in the 4th and certainly in the 5th and I feel he has a high ceiling at RT. He was a 5 start recruit at Tennessee and started as a freshman and showed real promise. A slight regression and the arrival of Darnell Wright pushed him out of the starting spot. He transferred to Oklahoma and seemed to be regaining his promising form. I believe he could be a prospect to start day 1. There would need to be somethings checked out as he had some academic issues and personal issues that brought a 1 or 2 game suspension at the beginning of last season.

Andrew Vorhees - If you could draft him for a redshirt year in the 5th round he would be a steal. Just a solid overall interior lineman and everyone saw his guts and dedication.

Some late round guys I really like are:

Carter Warren - Yeah there are technique things he needs to clean up but there is some awfully good film on this kid. There is a lot to like about him. I wouldn't be shocked if he wouldn't make a team consider him for a day 1 RT starter but I think he has the potential to be a pretty decent NFL LT as well. At worst the guy could make a really valuable swing tackle off the bench.

Chandler Zavala - I have watched film on the North Carolina State line and this kid stood out. I am not sure why he has not garnered more attention than he has but he appears to be really solid and he is certainly an interior guy I would take late in the draft.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-21-2023, 02:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Is Dawand still 6'8" around 375lbs?

If so. Still #1 in my heart.

Don't think he shrank lol

Also, he shouldn't be your #1 solely on being a giant. I like both Darnell Wright and Matt Bergeron a touch better as far as play.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-22-2023, 07:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I look for the team to draft possibly 2 OL in the upcoming draft, as well as sign 2-4 priority UDFAs to the position group.  The team is in a bad spot, as far as having to go into free agency to comprise the bulk of their OL starters.  With a franchise QB about to get paid, as well as attempting to keep not one, but a pair of elite WRs on the team, position groups like OL need to be drafted and developed type of players.

Carman showed enough promise for me to still have hope for him, Volson exceeded my expectations.  The team couldn't have said it louder that Jonah Williams was a failure to launch at LT by going out and buying Brown Jr.  We have two more seasons with Karras and three with Cappa before it will be time to see what the new crop of draft and develop interior OL look like for the Bengals. Even having invested in La'el Collins, RT is still a tremendous question mark heading into this season.  Hopefully between Williams, Ford and Collins they can get it figured out for the next season.  However, I'm still putting my betting money on the Bengals drafting a Tackle in the first 3 rounds, one that they see as being the RT for the next 5-10 years.

Btw, you're doing a great job of keeping us all posted on the position group "as it stands" throughout the offseason process, nice job.  

Thanks, much appreciated. Good post. 

For me, I just don't see a cornerstone OT in this draft beyond the top 4. I'd take Wright if he is there. I think it is developmental dudes beyond that. A deeper OT class would serve us better. Next year, perhaps. Jonah is signed for 1 more year, Collins & Carman for 2, Brown for 4. 

Thus, I see the top 3 picks as some combo of TE (biggest hole, deep class), DE (deep class) and CB (deep class). DT, RB, IOL, or WR would not shock me if there is good value. 3 of those 4 plus a punter (Turk, Korsak, Baringer) would likely round out my draft. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-23-2023, 04:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't think he shrank lol

Also, he shouldn't be your #1 solely on being a giant. I like both Darnell Wright and Matt Bergeron a touch better as far as play.

Perfect technique only gets you so far.  Its the reason for weight classes in combat sports.

Dude had D1 basketball offers and chose to play football for the Buckeyes, freshman in 2019, covid, then started at RT in 21 and 22  for a top 10 offense both years.

My thing is, there just aren't many of them. We just signed one to play LT, by giving out the biggest signing bonus ever for an OL. If we have a shot to take another giant. When everybody knows protect Joe Burrow = Wins. Then I don't see how you pass on taking another giant to protect Joe Burrow when he plays the other tackle spot where we have a bunch of questions marks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-24-2023, 03:06 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Perfect technique only gets you so far.  Its the reason for weight classes in combat sports.

Dude had D1 basketball offers and chose to play football for the Buckeyes, freshman in 2019, covid, then started at RT in 21 and 22  for a top 10 offense both years.

My thing is, there just aren't many of them. We just signed one to play LT, by giving out the biggest signing bonus ever for an OL. If we have a shot to take another giant. When everybody knows protect Joe Burrow = Wins. Then I don't see how you pass on taking another giant to protect Joe Burrow when he plays the other tackle spot where we have a bunch of questions marks.

No doubt, DaWand Jones is crazy talented and definitely fits a need if Carman cannot be a stud at RT. 

Would be happy if we took Jones.

[Whatever]

(03-22-2023, 07:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I look for the team to draft possibly 2 OL in the upcoming draft, as well as sign 2-4 priority UDFAs to the position group.  The team is in a bad spot, as far as having to go into free agency to comprise the bulk of their OL starters.  With a franchise QB about to get paid, as well as attempting to keep not one, but a pair of elite WRs on the team, position groups like OL need to be drafted and developed type of players.

Carman showed enough promise for me to still have hope for him, Volson exceeded my expectations.  The team couldn't have said it louder that Jonah Williams was a failure to launch at LT by going out and buying Brown Jr.  We have two more seasons with Karras and three with Cappa before it will be time to see what the new crop of draft and develop interior OL look like for the Bengals. Even having invested in La'el Collins, RT is still a tremendous question mark heading into this season.  Hopefully between Williams, Ford and Collins they can get it figured out for the next season.  However, I'm still putting my betting money on the Bengals drafting a Tackle in the first 3 rounds, one that they see as being the RT for the next 5-10 years.

Btw, you're doing a great job of keeping us all posted on the position group "as it stands" throughout the offseason process, nice job.  

I don't see the Bengals adding potentially 6 OL to the 15 they already have.  Going into TC with 20+ OL doesn't seem feasible.  

Signing depth guys like Ford and Scharping also seems to indicate that they aren't planning on drafting depth there.  Obviously, it depends on how their board falls, but looking at how FA has fallen, it looks like it would have to be a value pick.

Brown was not a planned signing.  Per Pollack, at the last minute, Duke told him, "Hey, take a look at this guy.". Pollack said adding a big ticket T wasn't even on his radar.  My guess is that they pounced because the FA T market is extremely soft and they had cap to burn after losing Bell.

Looking at the current roster, those draft picks start getting spoken for rather quickly when we need a TE1, plus a TE2 or 3, a S to compete with/supplant Scott, RB2, depth at outside CB, plus wiggle room for value drops.  

[SunsetBengal]

(03-24-2023, 03:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't see the Bengals adding potentially 6 OL to the 15 they already have.  Going into TC with 20+ OL doesn't seem feasible.  

Signing depth guys like Ford and Scharping also seems to indicate that they aren't planning on drafting depth there.  Obviously, it depends on how their board falls, but looking at how FA has fallen, it looks like it would have to be a value pick.

Brown was not a planned signing.  Per Pollack, at the last minute, Duke told him, "Hey, take a look at this guy.". Pollack said adding a big ticket T wasn't even on his radar.  My guess is that they pounced because the FA T market is extremely soft and they had cap to burn after losing Bell.

Looking at the current roster, those draft picks start getting spoken for rather quickly when we need a TE1, plus a TE2 or 3, a S to compete with/supplant Scott, RB2, depth at outside CB, plus wiggle room for value drops.  

What is feasible is giving a few of the deadbeats their walking papers, once suitable upgrades are found.  I could absolutely see the Bengals bringing in another 4-6 OL to compete, it's how you decide who's good and who's not.