Mazi Smith or Calijah Kancey

[OSUfan]

So if Kancey and Smith are both available at #28 would you select one of these players or do you feel neither is worthy of the selection? I see merit in the selection of either.

Kancey is advertised as A. Donald 2.0 and the Bengals have not had that inside pass rushing presence since Geno. The measurables and testing of Donald and Kancey are virtual mirror images however what is interesting is that Donald was graded at 5.90 or average backup or special teamer. Without Donald becoming what he has in the NFL do you think Kancey would be graded at a 6.39 as he is?

Mazi Smith I feel is only beginning to realize the player that he can become on the interior. To find a nose tackle that can stop the run and rush the passer both at the level that he is capable of is rather difficult to find. Couple that with Reader being a free agent in '24 and Smith is extremely intriguing. Even if Reader stayed Smith provides the interior pass rush ability that no other nose that we have is capable of providing even if it is in a rotation with Reader.

I really like both of these guys and I think that either helps the Bengals convert their high volume of pressures into getting the QB to the ground or causing turnovers.

[SunsetBengal]

Mazi Smith, no hesitation. The Bengals need someone to be ready when DJ Reader moves on.

[pulses]

(04-07-2023, 07:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Mazi Smith, no hesitation.  The Bengals need someone to be ready when DJ Reader moves on.

I totally agree.

[Murdock2420]

Either one would be a great selection at 28. I can't imagine Kancey makes it that far, but if he does, run to turn that pick in and don't worry think twice. Kancey next to Reader with Hendrickson and Hubbard off the edge would be a nightmare. It would also speed up the QB so our young starters in the secondary don't have to cover as long.

[*bfine32*]

Of the 2 mentioned gimme KANCEY, But Gimme a choice of similar prospects, and I'll take ADETOMIWA ADEBAWORE

[samhain]

I like Kancey and think he brings something the Bengals lack, ie a pass rush specialist on the interior. This will help vs Conference rivals like KC and Buffalo.

Unfortunately, I kind of worry about how useful he will be vs teams in the North like Cleveland and the Ravens. The prospect of a smallish DT squaring up vs those run games does not thrill me. They could take him off the field in obvious run situations, but it kind of sucks to have a number 1 overall pick sitting on the bench on meaningful snaps. Dobbins and Chubb would very likely run right at him behind those very capable fronts until he proves he can handle it.

[*Synric*]

Mazi Smith every Sunday.

Smith is a 3 down defender between the 40s and in the red-zone. Klancey is a rotational run defender between the 40s and a situational defender in the redzone. NFL defenses as a whole ran alot of light boxes last year a 3 Down Nose Tackle is very important when you do that. DJ Reader is case and point.

Now.. The Bengals can go Klancey because they have that base defensive line with Reader and Hill but if a team is building a Defensive Line Mazi Smith would be the top of my boards.

Edit: But I agree with BFine if I were to guess a first round IDL for the Bengals it would be Bryan Bresee or Adetomiwa Adwbawore because they fit the outside/inside versatility that we have see them draft the last few years.


Edit: Also Clajih Klancey is not Aaron Donald. Donald has almost 33 inch arms there is alot of power and length to Donalds game that just doesn't exsist in Klancey. Klancey isn't Geno Atkins either Geno had speed to power moves in his game with 32 inch arms.

[samhain]

(04-07-2023, 11:40 PM)Synric Wrote: Mazi Smith every Sunday.

Smith is a 3 down defender between the 40s and in the red-zone. Klancey is a rotational run defender between the 40s and a situational defender in the redzone. NFL defenses as a whole ran alot of light boxes last year a 3 Down Nose Tackle is very important when you do that. DJ Reader is case and point.

Now.. The Bengals can go Klancey because they have that base defensive line with Reader and Hill but if a team is building a Defensive Line Mazi Smith would be the top of my boards.

Edit: But I agree with BFine if I were to guess a first round IDL for the Bengals it would be Bryan Bresee or Adetomiwa Adwbawore because they fit the outside/inside versatility that we have see them draft the last few years.


Edit: Also Clajih Klancey is not Aaron Donald. Donald has almost 33 inch arms there is alot of power and length to Donalds game that just doesn't exsist in Klancey. Klancey isn't Geno Atkins either Geno had speed to power moves in his game with 32 inch arms.

Yeah, I'm definitely less high on Kancey at this point.  

I just keep thinking of those two January games vs the Ravens.  They were controlling games and sealing off edges with that o-line and run game.  The Bengals defense knew what was coming and couldn't do a whole lot about it.  If not for the Hubbard miracle, that strategy would have resulted in a Ravens win and the Bengals season being over.  Kancey wouldn't even be in the game in a situation like that.  He'd get washed out of every play.

The Patriots dynasty had a monster NT in Ted Washington early on, then they replaced him with Wilfork and didn't miss a beat. I love Reader and will always associate him with the franchise turnaround, but boy wouldn't it be nice to have a guy ready to step in if they can't work out a deal to keep DJ? I think Mazi Smith could be that guy.

[*Go Cards*]

Out of those two would take Mazi Smith.

Just believe Kancey's size makes him a question mark. Albeit one with a high ceiling if reached, but would rather go the more surer thing imo.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-07-2023, 07:13 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So if Kancey and Smith are both available at #28 would you select one of these players or do you feel neither is worthy of the selection? I see merit in the selection of either.

Kancey is advertised as A. Donald 2.0 and the Bengals have not had that inside pass rushing presence since Geno. The measurables and testing of Donald and Kancey are virtual mirror images however what is interesting is that Donald was graded at 5.90 or average backup or special teamer. Without Donald becoming what he has in the NFL do you think Kancey would be graded at a 6.39 as he is?

Mazi Smith I feel is only beginning to realize the player that he can become on the interior. To find a nose tackle that can stop the run and rush the passer both at the level that he is capable of is rather difficult to find. Couple that with Reader being a free agent in '24 and Smith is extremely intriguing. Even if Reader stayed Smith provides the interior pass rush ability that no other nose that we have is capable of providing even if it is in a rotation with Reader.

I really like both of these guys and I think that either helps the Bengals convert their high volume of pressures into getting the QB to the ground or causing turnovers.

Give me Mazi Smith, he can do it all and doesn't have the short arms Kancey does. Mazi Smith would be the perfect DJ Reader replacement.

Mazi can play all 3 downs, stop the run and rush the passer from the interior. Exactly what we need. Honestly hoping for Mazi Smith almost 
as much as Darnell Wright the closer we get to the Draft.

[puddycat]

Cancey. We have the same front six (seven with either Bell or Hilton) as last year when we had a top-10 run defense. We had an above-average pass defense. We were bottom-5 in sacks. I think Mazi could be a great Reader replacement, Bit I don't need an athletic freak first-rounder at the NT position. We have the players to force 3rd and long. We need to get to the QB. Cancey is great at that (and he's even been known to line up outside on occasion.)
And here's something that would have been heresy a few years ago: We don't need to build our team to win our division. We need to compete against the Bills and Chiefs.
In the end, either player would be a good addition. Either would be able to come in a contribute snaps in year 1, which is all I can really ask of a player at the end of round 1 coming to a good team.

[OSUfan]

(04-08-2023, 03:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Give me Mazi Smith, he can do it all and doesn't have the short arms Kancey does. Mazi Smith would be the perfect DJ Reader replacement.

Mazi can play all 3 downs, stop the run and rush the passer from the interior. Exactly what we need. Honestly hoping for Mazi Smith almost 
as much as Darnell Wright the closer we get to the Draft.

I think Mazi Smith is an outstanding prospect that is only beginning to understand how good he can actually be. Reader is an outstanding run defender and can disrupt the pocket but Smith is not just a disruptor he is a pass rush threat from the NT position. Even if Reader re-signs with the Bengals after '23 and even with Mazi as a rookie I could see instances where Reader lines up at the 1 and Smith at the 3. Try stopping that tandem inside!

[Bilbo Saggins]

In 3 years, one of these players has recorded .5 sack and 6 tackles for loss.  The other player has recorded 16 sacks and 34.5 tackles for a loss.  

Smith is an interesting prospect, has plenty of flashes in the pan, probably did a lot of the dirty work in run D, but 28 is far too rich for him.  I'd prefer many guys over Kancey, but he'd be interesting.  I'd imagine that he'd have to learn both DE and 3T.

[OSUfan]

(04-09-2023, 01:36 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: In 3 years, one of these players has recorded .5 sack and 6 tackles for loss.  The other player has recorded 16 sacks and 34.5 tackles for a loss.  

Smith is an interesting prospect, has plenty of flashes in the pan, probably did a lot of the dirty work in run D, but 28 is far too rich for him.  I'd prefer many guys over Kancey, but he'd be interesting.  I'd imagine that he'd have to learn both DE and 3T.

I guess one thing to consider is that one played in the Big 10 and the other the ACC. I believe that consist opponent talent level is different between those two conferences.

[*Synric*]

(04-09-2023, 01:36 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: In 3 years, one of these players has recorded .5 sack and 6 tackles for loss.  The other player has recorded 16 sacks and 34.5 tackles for a loss.  

Smith is an interesting prospect, has plenty of flashes in the pan, probably did a lot of the dirty work in run D, but 28 is far too rich for him.  I'd prefer many guys over Kancey, but he'd be interesting.  I'd imagine that he'd have to learn both DE and 3T.

Production doesn't always translate. Pittsburgh Panthers have kinda become the team that uses those small DT right. Between Aaron Donald and Clijah Klancey they had another small IDL Jaylen Twyman. He really only got 1 year in because of Covid but that year he had 10.5 sacks and 12 TFL. Twyman went 6th or 7th round to the Vikings in 2021. I think the Panthers have another small IDL that rotates with Klancey too I can't think of his name though hes not nearly as good.

Edit: That other Pitt DT is David Green lol.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Smith is a workout warrior with little production and some off field issues. I would not pick him in any round. Hard pass. Well, maybe day 3. But he'll be gone by then.

Kancey I'd take over almost anyone (Wright) if available in Rd1.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(04-09-2023, 10:35 AM)Synric Wrote: Production doesn't always translate. Pittsburgh Panthers have kinda become the team that uses those small DT right. Between Aaron Donald and Clijah Klancey they had another small IDL Jaylen Twyman. He really only got 1 year in because of Covid but that year he had 10.5 sacks and 12 TFL. Twyman went 6th or 7th round to the Vikings in 2021. I think the Panthers have another small IDL that rotates with Klancey too I can't think of his name though hes not nearly as good.

Edit: That other Pitt DT is David Green lol.

In 2022 2 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.  Both averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (11 sacks/4 years; 5 sacks/4 years)
In 2021 0 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.
In 2020 2 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.  Both averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (12.5 sacks/4 years; 10 sacks/4 years) 
In 2019 6 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.  All six averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (10 sacks/2 years; 13.5 sacks/3 years; 16 sacks/4 years; 10 sacks/3 years; 7 sacks/4 years(*3 at DT one at TE); 13.5 sacks/4 years)
In 2018 1 DT was drafted in the 1st round.  This lone DT averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (5.5 sacks/3 years)

I don't know how far back you would have to go to find a DT that was drafted in the first round who only registered 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  Maybe 1940s era.  

[*Synric*]

(04-10-2023, 02:45 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: In 2022 2 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.  Both averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (11 sacks/4 years; 5 sacks/4 years)
In 2021 0 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.
In 2020 2 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.  Both averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (12.5 sacks/4 years; 10 sacks/4 years) 
In 2019 6 DTs were drafted in the 1st round.  All six averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (10 sacks/2 years; 13.5 sacks/3 years; 16 sacks/4 years; 10 sacks/3 years; 7 sacks/4 years(*3 at DT one at TE); 13.5 sacks/4 years)
In 2018 1 DT was drafted in the 1st round.  This lone DT averaged well over 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  (5.5 sacks/3 years)

I don't know how far back you would have to go to find a DT that was drafted in the first round who only registered 1/6th of a sack per year of play in college.  Maybe 1940s era.  

Who is Calijah Klancey in the NFL? Which player on your list has the same frame and production as Klancey? That player doesn't exsist which is the biggest red flag with Klancey. Honestly the way he gets pushed around in run defense really hurts my redzone projection for Klancey so its hard for me to call a situational redzone player a 1st round pick.

[Jpoore]

Kancey…. And it’s nowhere near close

[Bilbo Saggins]

(04-10-2023, 03:05 AM)Synric Wrote: Who is Calijah Klancey in the NFL? Which player on your list has the same frame and production as Klancey? That player doesn't exsist which is the biggest red flag with Klancey. Honestly the way he gets pushed around in run defense really hurts my redzone projection for Klancey so its hard for me to call a situational redzone player a 1st round pick.

The closest comp that I can think of off the top of my head is Ed Oliver.  He was about 6 pounds heavier than Kancey during the draft process.  He's also a little taller and longer.  Kancey is a 1st percentile athlete when it comes to arm length, 2nd percentile when it comes to height, and 4th percentile in weight(for interior D line).  Those measurables do give me Billy Price sorts of vibes.  I'd think that Kancey would have to learn multiple positions in order to live up to 1st rounder status.  He couldn't play 3T against a team like the Titans unless it was 3rd and a mile.  I'm not saying that you don't have a point.  I'm just saying that Mazi Smith would be an extreme outlier in terms of college production for a first round DT.  If you can't luck your way into a sack here or there in college, why should you be expected to make some giant leap in the pros?  At least with Kancey you have production against college level players and some hope of positional flexibility.