Kaepernick Trade For Dalton?

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2015, 10:47 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: That's only because he was throwing to practice squad level players. His only legit target was Green, and he was out 5-6 games last year, yeah he's the 5-7th best receiver in the league, but the next best thing was Sanu the drop happy WR. Obviously when you're as handicapped as Dalton was last year you're not going to have that great of stats.

No doubt when Dalton is asked to do less and backed by an outstanding running game (read Kaep the last few years), there are other reasons he's the 25th ranked QB in the NFL and not efficient. Andy was 1 INT away from leading the league last year and did so in only 481 attempts. That has absolutely nothing to do with his receivers. 

[BengalChris]

(06-08-2015, 10:53 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton didn't play bad against NE, PITT. NE he had 2 TDs and should have been 3 if Gresham wouldn't have dropped an easy catch in the endzone. The PITT game he had over 300 yards and 3 total TDs too.

Where did I mention Dalton played badly in the NE or PITT games?

Only said that it was the Bengals who were being beaten badly instead beating the other team badly.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2015, 10:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No doubt when Dalton is asked to do less and backed by an outstanding running game (read Kaep the last few years), there are other reasons he's the 25th ranked QB in the NFL and not efficient. Andy was 1 INT away from leading the league last year and did so in only 481 attempts. That has absolutely nothing to do with his receivers. 

hahahahahaha you really think that has nothing to do with the receivers? you honestly think there's no affect in how many INTs you get with the quality of your receivers? By that logic it doesn't matter if a receiver can create space, or is able to fight for the ball better.

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2015, 11:05 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: hahahahahaha you really think that has nothing to do with the receivers? you honestly think there's no affect in how many INTs you get with the quality of your receivers? By that logic it doesn't matter if a receiver can create space, or is able to fight for the ball better.

Of course it matters if a receiver can create space. That has absolutely nothing to do with throwing the ball to the other team. But suddenly the knock on the WRs last year has changed from dropping balls to not getting separation. He had a full compliment of talented receivers in 2013 and threw 20 INTs. Do you know what the 1 common factor in the 2 years was? 

This is one of the few forums I've been to where INTs are consistently blamed on the WRs.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2015, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course it matters if a receiver can create space. That has absolutely nothing to do with throwing the ball to the other team. But suddenly the knock on the WRs last year has changed from dropping balls to not getting separation. He had a full compliment of talented receivers in 2013 and threw 20 INTs. Do you know what the 1 common factor in the 2 years was? 

This is one of the few forums I've been to where INTs are consistently blamed on the WRs.

you do realize that almost half of the INTs Dalton had in 2013 was from a tipped ball from the receiver right?

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2015, 11:20 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: you do realize that almost half of the INTs Dalton had in 2013 was from a tipped ball from the receiver right?

Yes I have been told multiple times that they were not his fault.

Andy just has the worst luck ever.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2015, 11:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes I have been told multiple times that they were not his fault.

Andy just has the worst luck ever.

yeah, i guess if you want to call the fact about Daltons INT's in 2013  bad luck then go ahead.

[Rhinocero23]

(06-08-2015, 03:14 PM)GodFather Wrote: So I was reading how the 49ers could possibly trade Kaepernick with the recent loss of players and new coaching for restructuring. My question is this would you trade Dalton AND a 3rd round draft in 2016 for Kaepernick?

article
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13031499/why-san-francisco-49ers-trade-quarterback-colin-kaepernick-2016-clayton-mailbag

If you look at the stats between these two guys on paper they are very close and don't seem to be much different than one another:

Colin Kaepernick stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/colinkaepernick/2495186/careerstats

Andy Dalton stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/andydalton/2495143/careerstats

Thats also where stats on paper don't tell a whole story. Kaepernick has proven he can play in the big dance and Dalton has proven that he can't. So your calling the shots in Cincy and the 49ers approach you with the deal,  We give you Kaepernick and you give us Dalton and a 2016 3rd rounder. Do you take the deal or pass?

While I am sure this will surprise some...I would not trade Dalton for Kaepernick. I think Kaepernick would be an absolute disaster Cincinnati. I believe Kaepernick is a better athlete...all other qualities (including being a NFL QB) belong to Dalton. 

[t3r3e3]

(06-08-2015, 09:30 PM)OSUfan Wrote: First of all QBR is a joke and most would agree.

The entire San Francisco team showed up in the playoffs not just the QB as you are making it seem. Their defense played very good football and they have a monster running game.

Maybe you can explain why the Niners go to great lengths not to have CK throw the ball in the redzone if he is all that and a bag of chips as you are making him out to be?

What was posted was actually passer rating. The poster screwed up and put QBR instead, which is a garbage stat produced by ESPN. That being said, I watched Kaepernick absolutely destroy some teams in the Playoffs with his arm and legs. Green Bay was his first victim. He also shredded the Ravens in the Super Bowl. CK's worst Playoff game was against the Seahawks in the NFC Chanpionship game.

While I wouldn't trade Dalton and a 3rd for Kaepernick, I'd consider a straight up trade, and probably do it after considering it. Kaepernick has his flaws, but he also outperforms Andy in the Playoffs, and sports a higher career passer rating. There's also the added benefit of his mobility. A swap wouldn't be cut and dried, but Andy is a low upside starter with limited arm talent and mobility. Kaepernick has superior tools, but hasn't harnessed them fully. And for what it's worth, Hugh consciously limited Andy's influence on the offense last year as well.

[*Nately120*]

(06-08-2015, 10:47 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: That's only because he was throwing to practice squad level players. His only legit target was Green, and he was out 5-6 games last year, yeah he's the 5-7th best receiver in the league, but the next best thing was Sanu the drop happy WR. Obviously when you're as handicapped as Dalton was last year you're not going to have that great of stats.

I also want to point out that saying the 49ers will be doomed without Jim Hairball as the HC is funny because I recall a poll on the old board asking if you'd rather have Marvin or Harbaugh as the coach and I'm pretty sure the majority of people didn't want Jim anywhere near this team. So getting a HC or a QB that have been to the Super Bowl will spell DOOM for this team. Meh, I'm not saying I'd take Kapernick over Dalton, but the amount of fear of any change Bengals fans have is shocking.

[t3r3e3]

(06-08-2015, 10:18 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Still passer rating is all about efficiency. He doesn't throw the ball nearly as much so obviously his efficiency is going to be better.  Passer rating doesn't = how good you are. Actual production trumps efficiency any day of the week.

Then why do the best, most productive QB's in the NFL typically have the highest passer ratings? I'll give you a hint: it's because they play the position the best. Guys like Jay Cutler produce a ton of stats, which, in your line of thought, makes him a stud. However, many of those yards and TD's come after Jay torpedoes his team's chances with costly turnovers, and digs the team a giant hole to pass out of. Garbage time gives Culter great passing measurables, but no one with two brain cells would choose Cutler over Russell Wilson.

[*Nately120*]

(06-08-2015, 11:52 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: What was posted was actually passer rating.  The poster screwed up and put QBR instead, which is a garbage stat produced by ESPN.

Hmm, I'm not really sure about the validity of the QBR stat, but the rankings for 2014 show Romo, Rogers, P. Manning, Tom Brady, Pig Ben, and Drew Brees at the top of the list and the likes of Austin Davis, Josh McCown, Geno Smith, and Blake Bortles at the bottom...seems kinda legit.

[*bengalfan74*]

Like DJS and others have said:

There are probably 5 or 6 QB's I'd trade Dalton for and not even bat an eye. There's probably another 6 or so, I most likely would, but would have to crunch the numbers a bit and chew on it.

There's maybe 1 or 2 others I'd give some consideration to but most likely wouldn't. Kaep is in this category. I'm just not sure he's enough of an upgrade to rework the team/playbook and put up with his issues !

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2015, 11:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote:

I also want to point out that saying the 49ers will be doomed without Jim Hairball as the HC is funny because I recall a poll on the old board asking if you'd rather have Marvin or Harbaugh as the coach and I'm pretty sure the majority of people didn't want Jim anywhere near this team.  So getting a HC or a QB that have been to the Super Bowl will spell DOOM for this team.  Meh, I'm not saying I'd take Kapernick over Dalton, but the amount of fear of any change Bengals fans have is shocking.

lol what did the 49ers do without jim harbaugh? Oh yeah, they lost a lot of games. From 2002 to 2010 they didn't even have ONE season where they had an above .500 record. Then Harbaugh shows up in 2011, and they go to the NFCCG the next year they go to the SB and then the next year they go to the NFCCG. Yeah Harbaugh was the downfall for the 49ers. Don't you realize that the 49ers have lost almost their whole defense too? That team is going to be a big pile of crap next season. From now on you should actually look into stuff for yourself instead of going on the word of message board posters.

[Brownshoe]

(06-09-2015, 12:01 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Then why do the best, most productive QB's in the NFL typically have the highest passer ratings?  I'll give you a hint:  it's because they play the position the best.  Guys like Jay Cutler produce a ton of stats, which, in your line of thought, makes him a stud.  However, many of those yards and TD's come after Jay torpedoes his team's chances with costly turnovers, and digs the team a giant hole to pass out of.  Garbage time gives Culter great passing measurables, but no one with two brain cells would choose Cutler over Russell Wilson.

So you think Tony Romo was the best QB in the league last year? Going by passer rating Ryan Fitzpatrick is a top 10 QB too. Same with Carson Palmer being a top 10 QB. Passer rating doesn't = how good they are. As for Cutler he doesn't even produce that great of stats. He hasn't even had a 30 or more TD year (and he was in the league in 2006), and has only had more than 3,500 yards in a season 3 times even though he is usually loaded when it comes to weapons.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2015, 12:16 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: lol what did the 49ers do without jim harbaugh? Oh yeah, they lost a lot of games. From 2002 to 2010 they didn't even have ONE season where they had an above .500 record. Then Harbaugh shows up in 2011, and they go to the NFCCG the next year they go to the SB and then the next year they go to the NFCCG. Yeah Harbaugh was the downfall for the 49ers. Don't you realize that the 49ers have lost almost their whole defense too? That team is going to be a big pile of crap next season. From now on you should actually look into stuff for yourself instead of going on the word of message board posters.

I realize the 49ers are going to be crap, I mean look how many players retired and/or left after Harbaugh was tossed out.  I actually thought it was amazing how so few Bengals fans wanted Harbaugh to take over for Marvin after 2014 even in a hypothetical situation so you preach to the choir here.

Actually, where in the hell did you get the idea I thought the 49ers were good pre-Harbaugh or would be good after he is gone?  Do you just assign people stupid perspectives and then manufacture a one-sided debate?

[Brownshoe]

(06-09-2015, 12:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Actually, where in the hell did you get the idea I thought the 49ers were good pre-Harbaugh or would be good after he is gone?  Do you just assign people stupid perspectives and then manufacture a one-sided debate?

from

(06-08-2015, 11:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I also want to point out that saying the 49ers will be doomed without Jim Hairball as the HC is funny because I recall a poll on the old board asking if you'd rather have Marvin or Harbaugh as the coach and I'm pretty sure the majority of people didn't want Jim anywhere near this team.

[*Nately120*]

(06-09-2015, 12:39 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: from

It's funny because people didn't want Harbaugh and now they don't want Kapernick.  So basically the team makes the Super Bowl with a QB and HC and Bengals fans shudder to think of either of them coming here.  It just seems humorous that Harbaugh was denied the credit for fixing that franchise and now Kapernick is being denied the credit, as well.

I guess Frank Gore dragged the whole team to the Super Bowl, or something.

[Brownshoe]

(06-09-2015, 12:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It's funny because people didn't want Harbaugh and now they don't want Kapernick.  So basically the team makes the Super Bowl with a QB and HC and Bengals fans shudder to think of either of them coming here.  It just seems humorous that Harbaugh was denied the credit for fixing that franchise and now Kapernick is being denied the credit, as well.

I guess Frank Gore dragged the whole team to the Super Bowl, or something.

It was Gore, and one of the best defenses in the league, and great game planning from the coach that made them a good team. Now all 3 are gone, and they will have 0 to 3 wins next season.

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2015, 11:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: yeah, i guess if you want to call the fact about Daltons INT's in 2013  bad luck then go ahead.

You can (and have) come up with every excuse possible, but the bottom line is Andy Dalton throws far to many INTs. There is really only one person to blame, unless you want to suggest (I wouldn't be surprised if you did) that Andy is the only QB in the NFL that is hampered by these excuses you are trying to make.

You seem to be tracking Andy's INTs pretty closely: Do you happen to have a number on balls that should have been intercepted that were not?