Welcome to the Jungle Jordan Battle

[BobJones4980]

Have seen a couple people say he won't see the field this year so bad pick, maybe I'm crazy but if he looks good in camp I don't think they hesitate to start him over Scott.

A 3 year 12 million dollar contract doesn't scream guaranteed starter to me, it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top in camp.

Also with these longer seasons plus playoff pushes, injuries happen. Depth is a good thing, Quality depth is a great thing.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2023, 03:58 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: people were complaining the bengals didnt land an impact starter with the first 2 picks

well Battle can legitimately win the SS gig. Scott is mediocre

They gave Safety Nick Scott, who is considered a strong player, a 3 year $12M deal. The Bengals didn't sign him to sit. Nick Scott is 27 and knows the league at this point. No way Battle comes into camp and is better by end of summer.

- I could see, however, the Bengals moving Dax Hill to more of a Hilton role with DJ Turner being Chido's replacement.

This has Nick Scott playing more FS and Battle taking the Von Bell role of hybrid/SS.

- But where does this have Tycen Anderson? The Bengals traded up for him in last year's draft.

The Bengals have a lot - TOO MUCH - draft capital wrapped up in the S position: Hill, Anderson, Battle

The Bengals have 2 vet S: Michael Thomas (looked to as strong ST value) & Nick Scott


Safety is not a critical position in the 2ndary. It's the least important. So, this idea that they need to keep loading up is really odd to me unless they are moving Dax Hill to nickel CB. I would prefer that, to be honest. He was a better nickel CB than S in college.

[masonbengals fan]

Welcome Jordan Battle

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2023, 12:30 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The value is there, but I don't see the need. They're taking BPA to its extreme.

I felt this way a bit at first, but then I realized that Tyson Anderson had next to no playing time last year.  They lost BOTH Bell and Bates.  One injury to Dax Hill or Scott and you are rolling out a very inexperienced Anderson or Uncle Mike Thomas.  They drafted DJ Turner despite having all starting roles already on the roster.  I know Battle is a safety and not a CB, but Lou loves the flexibility of Hill to potentially play slot, which provides quality depth behind Hilton, and you could have Battle and Scott as the safeties.  

Lou also really seems to like 3 safety packages, and this gives him more tools in his toolbox.

I also LOVE that the Bengals prioritize LEADERS and CHARACTER in their players.  With the new IRL money coming in to college, you have some guys coming in out of HS getting six figure checks and guys that have been busting their butts on the team for years getting next to nothing.  I think that could create a lot of animosity in the college game.  Texas A&M sure didn't look like a cohesive team.  My point is that finding two or even three year Captains that are high character and leaders.

Three straight defensive picks makes a LOT of sense given the % of the cap that will likely be going to three offensive players. 

That being said, I do hope for a RB in Round 4 that could contribute right away and, hopefully, make Mixon expendable.  Mixon has been a great player for Cincy but his lack of pass protection skills really is an Achillies heal in this offense.

A TE like Whylie would also be nice.  I could see them packaging their additional 6th rounder to move up in Round 4 to get another impact player.  Having 8 draft picks sounds great, but in reality, the picks on day 3 will have a battle (no pun intended) to make the roster.  

[Soonerpeace]

(04-29-2023, 09:34 AM)PDub80 Wrote: They gave Safety Nick Scott, who is considered a strong player, a 3 year $12M deal. The Bengals didn't sign him to sit. Nick Scott is 27 and knows the league at this point. No way Battle comes into camp and is better by end of summer.

- I could see, however, the Bengals moving Dax Hill to more of a Hilton role with DJ Turner being Chido's replacement.

This has Nick Scott playing more FS and Battle taking the Von Bell role of hybrid/SS.

- But where does this have Tycen Anderson? The Bengals traded up for him in last year's draft.

The Bengals have a lot - TOO MUCH - draft capital wrapped up in the S position: Hill, Anderson, Battle

The Bengals have 2 vet S: Michael Thomas (looked to as strong ST value) & Nick Scott


Safety is not a critical position in the 2ndary. It's the least important. So, this idea that they need to keep loading up is really odd to me unless they are moving Dax Hill to nickel CB. I would prefer that, to be honest. He was a better nickel CB than S in college.

I’m aligned with your thought process. The Bengals are staying true to their board. Only time will tell if it was the right strategy.

[casear2727]

(04-29-2023, 12:46 AM)basballguy Wrote: As an Eli Apple hater, I love any pick that improves the secondary

The Eli Apple hate sadly reflects a total misunderstanding of the NFL and especially the Bengals.  Outside of super stars, every team values players that far exceed production over cost & expectation.

2021, Apple was paid 1.2M to play CB4.  Due to injury of a projected starter he was forced to play CB2 all the way to the Super Bowl. He was the lowest paid vet playing the 2nd most difficult position in football.

2022, he was paid 3M to play CB2 until CTB could get up to speed.  Due to injury to a starter he was forced to play CB1 for 10 straight wins to the AFC title game.

Apple saved our ass two years in a row giving us the best 2 year run in history and there are many fans who care more about his Twitter than Super Bowl and AFC Title game appearances.

With our salary cap tightening every season, we need as many Eli Apple's as possible in the future.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2023, 09:48 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’m aligned with your thought process. The Bengals are staying true to their board. Only time will tell if it was the right strategy.

Something that i am pleased with is that the Bengals are 100% taking excellent players. I mean, these 3 guys are absolute studs. Special. Turner is speed, Battle is character and smarts, Murphy is athleticism and tenacity.

The 3 picks thus far are high quality. Not bums or reaches for need.

[PDub80]

(04-29-2023, 09:50 AM)casear2727 Wrote: The Eli Apple hate sadly reflects a total misunderstanding of the NFL and especially the Bengals.  Outside of super stars, every team values players that far exceed production over cost & expectation.

2021, Apple was paid 1.2M to play CB4.  Due to injury of a projected starter he was forced to play CB2 all the way to the Super Bowl. He was the lowest paid vet playing the 2nd most difficult position in football.

2022, he was paid 3M to play CB2 until CTB could get up to speed.  Due to injury to a starter he was forced to play CB1 for 10 straight wins to the AFC title game.

Apple saved our ass two years in a row giving us the best 2 year run in history and there are many fans who care more about his Twitter than Super Bowl and AFC Title game appearances.

With our salary cap tightening every season, we need as many Eli Apple's as possible in the future.

I agree 100%

Eli Apple was a godsend for the Bengals. Incredible value for the money. Played within the scheme. Played unselfishly. Bought into the Bengals. Didn't get injured.

He is only 27. If the Bengals brought him back in as a depth piece at low money again I would be thrilled. THRILLED. Eli Apple on the back end of your defense isn't bad business. It's GREAT buisness.

[OSUfan]

Welcome to the Jungle young man get ready to go to....Battle!

Another outstanding selection by Tobin and this staff. They clearly had some players targeted on their boards and are sticking to those rankings. Glad to see it. They are building an outstanding defense and much easier to win if you don't let other teams score. Not to mention that Battle has a penchant for scoring himself.

WHO - DEY!

[Soonerpeace]

(04-29-2023, 09:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I felt this way a bit at first, but then I realized that Tyson Anderson had next to no playing time last year.  They lost BOTH Bell and Bates.  One injury to Dax Hill or Scott and you are rolling out a very inexperienced Anderson or Uncle Mike Thomas.  They drafted DJ Turner despite having all starting roles already on the roster.  I know Battle is a safety and not a CB, but Lou loves the flexibility of Hill to potentially play slot, which provides quality depth behind Hilton, and you could have Battle and Scott as the safeties.  

Lou also really seems to like 3 safety packages, and this gives him more tools in his toolbox.

I also LOVE that the Bengals prioritize LEADERS and CHARACTER in their players.  With the new IRL money coming in to college, you have some guys coming in out of HS getting six figure checks and guys that have been busting their butts on the team for years getting next to nothing.  I think that could create a lot of animosity in the college game.  Texas A&M sure didn't look like a cohesive team.  My point is that finding two or even three year Captains that are high character and leaders.

Three straight defensive picks makes a LOT of sense given the % of the cap that will likely be going to three offensive players. 

That being said, I do hope for a RB in Round 4 that could contribute right away and, hopefully, make Mixon expendable.  Mixon has been a great player for Cincy but his lack of pass protection skills really is an Achillies heal in this offense.

A TE like Whylie would also be nice.  I could see them packaging their additional 6th rounder to move up in Round 4 to get another impact player.  Having 8 draft picks sounds great, but in reality, the picks on day 3 will have a battle (no pun intended) to make the roster.  

Perine’s role in the beginning was more about short yardage and spelling Mixon. It won’t change. They aren’t going into ‘23 with a rookie starting running back. Until they get them in they don’t know their ability to make adjustments and decisions. Mixon’s experience will be important this year but when the contracts of Joe and Tee kick in next year he won’t survive.

[OSUfan]

(04-29-2023, 09:51 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Something that i am pleased with is that the Bengals are 100% taking excellent players. I mean, these 3 guys are absolute studs. Special. Turner is speed, Battle is character and smarts, Murphy is athleticism and tenacity.

The 3 picks thus far are high quality. Not bums or reaches for need.

Excellent assessment!

[casear2727]

(04-29-2023, 02:48 AM)Eraserhead Wrote: You're 100% wrong. He'll see the field as a rookie box safety in certain situations and in TE coverage at times. If Scott struggles at all, Battle could see even more playing time. Saying you don't see a pathway during his whole rookie contract is just a weird thing to say.

He's my favorite pick so far and I think Murphy and Turner will be fine players. It's been a great draft so far. 

I saw you saying in the draft thread that they messed up trading with KC and letting Pittsburgh get Washington. You were 100% wrong there too. Lou obviously had a defensive guy in mind, which is why he said "see you in a little bit" and "told you so". If they had wanted Washington, they would have stayed put and took him, but with Lou's comments and the trade back, it's obvious they had no interest in taking him. 

(04-29-2023, 03:12 AM)Eraserhead Wrote: We'll revisit this during the season when Battle is seeing the reps as a rookie you emphatically stated he wouldn't see during his whole rookie contract. He'll see those reps even without injury or bad play elsewhere.

(04-29-2023, 03:15 AM)Eraserhead Wrote: It was a great pick. People hating on the pick or saying he won't see the field are ding dongs. 

(04-29-2023, 03:58 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: people were complaining the bengals didnt land an impact starter with the first 2 picks

well Battle can legitimately win the SS gig. Scott is mediocre

(04-29-2023, 08:55 AM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Have seen a couple people say he won't see the field this year so bad pick, maybe I'm crazy but if he looks good in camp I don't think they hesitate to start him over Scott.

A 3 year 12 million dollar contract doesn't scream guaranteed starter to me, it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top in camp.

Also with these longer seasons plus playoff pushes, injuries happen. Depth is a good thing, Quality depth is a great thing.

I can appreciate the new toy excitement but this reflects an absolute disregard to the Bengals and for how Lou manages defensive backs. 12M says Scott is the starter, along with Zac & Lou stating that Scott will start.  Also, Lou has said, and shown, that he does NOT rotate or substitute defensive backs.

It is odd that any of you think Lou would rather trust a 2nd year guy with zero snaps at safety with a new rookie, over a vet that has started and played in a Super Bowl, it makes no sense.

As mentioned before, Dax is a 1st Rd pick with incredible physical traits and he couldn't see the field.  Battle comes in as the least athletic, and by far slowest player in the DB room.  When the HC and DC first words are "special teams" that might be a good indication of the plans for the player.

Without injury it will be very surprising to see Battle have many meaningful snaps on defense this season.

[OSUfan]

(04-29-2023, 08:55 AM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Have seen a couple people say he won't see the field this year so bad pick, maybe I'm crazy but if he looks good in camp I don't think they hesitate to start him over Scott.

A 3 year 12 million dollar contract doesn't scream guaranteed starter to me, it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top in camp.

Also with these longer seasons plus playoff pushes, injuries happen. Depth is a good thing, Quality depth is a great thing.

I do not understand why people keep relating the signing of Scott to the draft of Battle at all. The Bengals brought in Scott because they did not know how the draft would play out. The contract is very reasonable for a safety and it certainly is not a contract that would keep them from bringing him off the bench.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2023, 09:56 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Perine’s role in the beginning was more about short yardage and spelling Mixon. It won’t change. They aren’t going into ‘23 with a rookie starting running back. Until they get them in they don’t know their ability to make adjustments and decisions. Mixon’s experience will be important this year but when the contracts of Joe and Tee kick in next year he won’t survive.

Actually, Perine was on the field (and unable to uncover quickly while Chase and Higgins were doubled) in key drives against KC and against the Rams in the Super Bowl because he was very adept at pass protection and Mixon was an absolute liability.  I think he is as good as gone once his legal issue is settled (after Jun 1st because it is more beneficial in terms of cap savings somehow) as I don't really think he will sign for $4 million when his contract was for $12.  And he isn't worth more than that on THIS offense.  

[PDub80]

(04-29-2023, 10:01 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I can appreciate the new toy excitement but this reflects an absolute disregard to the Bengals and for how Lou manages defensive backs. 12M says Scott is the starter, along with Zac & Lou stating that Scott will start.  Also, Lou has said, and shown, that he does NOT rotate or substitute defensive backs.

It is odd that any of you think Lou would rather trust a 2nd year guy with zero snaps at safety with a new rookie, over a vet that has started and played in a Super Bowl, it makes no sense.

As mentioned before, Dax is a 1st Rd pick with incredible physical traits and he couldn't see the field.  Battle comes in as the least athletic, and by far slowest player in the DB room.  When the HC and DC first words are "special teams" that might be a good indication of the plans for the player.

Without injury it will be very surprising to see Battle have many meaningful snaps on defense this season.

I agree with this, generally speaking.

I don't know what players - AVAILABLE TO THE BENGALS - in this specific draft would just come in and overtake the current starter.

Long term RT, to me, is the Bengals biggest need. Followed by RB (assuming Mixon is gone). And then understudy DT & WRs.

^ And that's assuming they don't think Carman can shift to the RT spot, which I wouldn't hate at all. Carman was better to me than Jonah was last season when he had to play.

There are still 5 RTs this draft that I look at as viable guys to step in and POSSIBLY be good long term options: Dawand Jones (OSU), Duncan (Maryland), Freeland (BYU), McClendon (UGA), Sorsdal (William & Mary).

No one in this draft should be looked at as someone who was just going to blow the doors off of the guy already on the roster who's slated to start unless it's the punter. Maybe Michael Mayer? I have to be point this out, though. Rotational DE is more impactful to the Bengals right now than starting TE - IN A DRAFT CLASS FULL OF GOOD TEs.

Murphy & Mallory

Murphy & Whyle

^ BOTH sound WAY better than Mayer & Zach Harrison. Because THAT is what it would have been.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-29-2023, 10:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Actually, Perine was on the field (and unable to uncover quickly while Chase and Higgins were doubled) in key drives against KC and against the Rams in the Super Bowl because he was very adept at pass protection and Mixon was an absolute liability.  I think he is as good as gone once his legal issue is settled (after Jun 1st because it is more beneficial in terms of cap savings somehow) as I don't really think he will sign for $4 million when his contract was for $12.  And he isn't worth more than that on THIS offense.  

Yes I was talking about initially. They liked Perine’s strength taking on blitzers. He developed into an excellent pass protector. His PFF score rose every year. But Joe is safe this year barring any more legal surprises. They’d moved up and taken Charbonett if they were moving on versus taking backup defensive players.

[*bfine32*]

(04-29-2023, 02:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Daxton Hill as a first round pick received less than 100 snaps at safety his rookie year most of his snaps came at corner in one game but the path for his future starting was there. Scott signed for 3 years and Hill is entering the second year of his rookie deal. The only path for Battle's way to the field is through insurance of Scott or Hill not working out or injury any way you slice it if Battle is on the field its through a bad safety decision or an injury.  

Edge and Corner you can see the path to them getting on the field at premium money saving positions... Safety no so much especially after 2 recent investments. I shouldnt be so hard on the pick it is a very late 3rd round pick Special Teams are where they usually end up.

Dax had to beat out 2 of the best Safeties in the NFL to see action. I'm not sure we currently have 2 of those on the roster anymore.

In business, we call it a sunk cost and if you focus on it, you fail. The money has already been spent for Nick Scott, but if the BPA could be an upgrade to him you take it.

Hell if I were redrafting I would have stayed pat and taken Washington; as no one on the board was as big of a Washington fan as I and would have celebrated him at #28, but there must be something we don't know. 

I am not unhappy with one pick to date. 

[bengaloo]

(04-29-2023, 01:09 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds like a Tee extension is really happening going off of the way we are playing things so far.

Still want a TE in case Irv Smith Jr gets hurt which seems inevitable though and want a RB real bad like Keaton Mitchell to help 
take away the 2 high looks we get with our WR's.

Yeah totally, I want both a TE and RB still for sure. I was expecting to have one of them, maybe both off the board by now. I'm not arguing their picks because all of those defensive positions are a big deal. I was hoping for Laporta or Washington, but that aint gonna happen lol. This should be a very interesting draft day now though. I really dig that kid Mitchell as an explosive guy out of the backfield. I like the bruising RB from Texas too, Johnson. Fun draft day shaping up! 

[samhain]

Perhaps the drafting of Battle tells more about how they view Dax than how they view Nick Scott.

Clearly this draft is about replacing costly defensive starters when the offensive cornerstones start getting what they've earned. I felt they'd go DL/DB in 1 and 2 for at least a month, so I have no issue with it.

Back to the point on Battle, perhaps they are looking at Dax Hill as potentially more than a safety. Hilton will eventually need to be re-signed or replaced just like Hendrickson, Reader, the safeties, and Awuzie. I'm unsure of whether or not either Battle or Scott could play free safety, but Hill is probably a viable option at nickel corner if it came down to it.

It's not impossible that we're looking at CTB, Turner and Hill as the 3 starting corners in a nickel package at some point down the road with Battle and Scott being the starting safeties.

I have no issue with letting Jesse Bates walk, but we see slivers of evidence as to what he really meant to this defense in this reloading of personnel. We now have several young players in the secondary with the word "upside" attached. It's not a bad place to be, but Bates was a sure thing playing centerfield in single high. His pick numbers weren't gaudy, but he was consistent in helping prevent big plays vs top-end qbs. We should not underestimate the impact of his departure. That's going to be a tough role for any of these guys to fill early on. I'm not sure any of the 3 safeties at the top of the depth chart is cut out for it, but then again, that's why Bates got paid what he did.

I'm optimistic about the upcoming season, but it's easy for one to assume that the elite on-paper offense will cover for losses on the defensive side. It certainly has the capability. I just think it will be tough for this defense early on as the young secondary makes it's adjustments to larger roles in the league. There won't be a long honeymoon if the early scheduling sends them to KC or has them face Baltimore (when Lamar is actually healthy) or the Bills in September. To me it''s the biggest unknown of the offseason.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-29-2023, 09:51 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Something that i am pleased with is that the Bengals are 100% taking excellent players. I mean, these 3 guys are absolute studs. Special. Turner is speed, Battle is character and smarts, Murphy is athleticism and tenacity.

The 3 picks thus far are high quality. Not bums or reaches for need.

Without question they were ranked higher by the world. So their values unmistakable