A New Jackson Carman?

[Soonerpeace]

(05-02-2023, 09:45 AM)Synric Wrote: Jonah's contract is really hurting his trade value with his injury/play history. A team that has injuries in camp might do it but I expect them to go after Taylor Lewan, Donovan Smith, and Geoge Fant first. Cheaper with better or the same level of play without giving up draft capital.

No doubt but the timing of the draft maybe more.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-01-2023, 10:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Whoa, hold on a minute here.  Let's talk about these items one by one.

1.  He's 23?  Big deal, he's also a college educated Gen Z who's likely been way more advance for his age that you or I could have possibly hoped to have been by that age, and he's been a "superstar" since he was a kid.

2.  Out of position?  Pfft, hungry athletes do whatever it takes to get on the field, regardless of specific position.

3.  I'll give you that one, he came through with fresh legs against defenses that had been on the field all season long plus playoffs.

4.  Back issues are tricky, (I'm a back patient and still trying to be competitive) the gymnastics and ballet are likely therapeutic for his back in that respect, and I applaud him for trying things to mitigate a problem that will never completely go away.

5.  What do I want?  I want the best 5 OL out on the field at any given moment.  Right now, I have Williams as the lead for RT, and Carman as the Swing Tackle.

The way this is written implies a player can play any position assigned if they just "put in the work."
If that's what you meant to imply, I would disagree.
Not every player has the athletic/size capability to play any position assigned, no matter how hard they try.
And/or they are not able to figure out what to do to improve and the coaches are either giving them bad advice or not much advice at all.

I will say this...
If the Bengals truly wanted to have the 5 best OL out there without dealing with a learning curve for Williams/Carman/Ford, they could put Brown back at RT for this season only and have LT covered with Carman/Williams.
That, IMO, would be truly getting the best 5 OL on the field.
I know they promised Brown he'd get to stay at LT, but by doing so does add risk for the RT position.

[higgy100]

(05-02-2023, 09:11 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That is exactly what you want to see/hear from a player. 
Usually takes OL 2-3 years to reshape their bodies and change habits from College days. 
In college they are told to maintain a certain weight, not to maintain a certain BMI %. 

In Carman's defense, he did come into the league with a back issue hindering him his first year, so hopefully that was what was slowing him down more so than motivation and taught him to take better care of his body. 

All i hope for is that he comes in healthy and plays up to his potential. 

100% correct. And he also was still a 21 year old that had the immaturity most do. People think these massive human beings that can literally look 30-35 years old coming out of college are all of a sudden mature/wise beyond their years. It's a huge adjustment going to the league and breaking habits/lifestyles especially with a few million dollars in your pocket along with everything you do is now under the microscope and scrutinized by people that don't even have a dog in the fight. Add in everything else you added and it takes a lot of self-evaluation and commitment.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2023, 10:12 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The way this is written implies a player can play any position assigned if they just "put in the work."
If that's what you meant to imply, I would disagree.
Not every player has the athletic/size capability to play any position assigned, no matter how hard they try.
And/or they are not able to figure out what to do to improve and the coaches are either giving them bad advice or not much advice at all.

I will say this...
If the Bengals truly wanted to have the 5 best OL out there without dealing with a learning curve for Williams/Carman/Ford, they could put Brown back at RT for this season only and have LT covered with Carman/Williams.
That, IMO, would be truly getting the best 5 OL on the field.
I know they promised Brown he'd get to stay at LT, but by doing so does add risk for the RT position.

For OL, with respect to Carman, I feel like he is physically capable of playing any one of 4 spots save for Center.  Center takes not just a specialized physical skill set, but a certain leadership quality to be the commander of the blocking calls.  Jackson didn't get benched at Guard for getting physically blown up, it was missing calls and being out of position, and that may not have been all of his fault.  There was a good deal of miscommunication on the OL that season, as we had a liability at Center, heck even Reilly Reiff ended up out of position on several occasions.

[Luvnit2]

(05-01-2023, 12:44 PM)pally Wrote: Media had remarked earlier that Carman looked thinner at OTA's.  He says he actually weighs the same but he has spent time reforming his body so he has gained muscle mass and lost fat %.

He said he has been doing a lot of non-football workouts...yoga, gymnastics, water exercise.  If the means a stronger, more flexible, more in shape Jackson, I'm all for it.
and tries to improve on it
He may end up not being the answer at RT either, but I give the kid a lot of credit for keeping at it, He takes the feedback and works to implement it.  I get the feeling he has matured a lot in his 2 seasons with the team

It can’t be true a player could get healthier and more fit resulting in improvement. I have seen too many posts in this forum saying guys are busts after 1 or 2 years playing for the Bengals.

[*Synric*]

(05-02-2023, 10:28 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For OL, with respect to Carman, I feel like he is physically capable of playing any one of 4 spots save for Center.  Center takes not just a specialized physical skill set, but a certain leadership quality to be the commander of the blocking calls.  Jackson didn't get benched at Guard for getting physically blown up, it was missing calls and being out of position, and that may not have been all of his fault.  There was a good deal of miscommunication on the OL that season, as we had a liability at Center, heck even Reilly Reiff ended up out of position on several occasions.

There has been so much OL change over the last four years. I believe this will be the first time in several years that it looks like the Bengals will be starting the same 3 IOL. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2023, 10:48 AM)Synric Wrote: There has been so much OL change over the last four years. I believe this will be the first time in several years that it looks like the Bengals will be starting the same 3 IOL. 

And that is a very good thing, when healthy last year they showed the makings of an interior that could push the pile.

[*bfine32*]

(05-01-2023, 10:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Whoa, hold on a minute here.  Let's talk about these items one by one.

1.  He's 23?  Big deal, he's also a college educated Gen Z who's likely been way more advance for his age that you or I could have possibly hoped to have been by that age, and he's been a "superstar" since he was a kid.

2.  Out of position?  Pfft, hungry athletes do whatever it takes to get on the field, regardless of specific position.

3.  I'll give you that one, he came through with fresh legs against defenses that had been on the field all season long plus playoffs.

4.  Back issues are tricky, (I'm a back patient and still trying to be competitive) the gymnastics and ballet are likely therapeutic for his back in that respect, and I applaud him for trying things to mitigate a problem that will never completely go away.

5.  What do I want?  I want the best 5 OL out on the field at any given moment.  Right now, I have Williams as the lead for RT, and Carman as the Swing Tackle.

WTH does that even mean?

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2023, 01:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: WTH does that even mean?

It's written in English.

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2023, 02:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's written in English.

Oh, OK, well then, it's just wrong. Gen Z is exactly the opposite of what you assert. 

From The Oxford Royale:

Quote:7. They’re changing the distinction between childhood and adulthood

GEN Z has many great attributes, but quick maturity is not among them. 

Generations prior to Z "entered adulthood" at a much younger age. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2023, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, OK, well then, it's just wrong. Gen Z is exactly the opposite of what you assert. 

From The Oxford Royale:

GEN Z has many great attributes, but quick maturity is not among them. 

Generations prior to Z "entered adulthood" at a much younger age. 

So are we supposed to have pity on a young man who's been a superstar for most of his life, because he came in and underperformed, due to the era he was born??

[higgy100]

(05-02-2023, 03:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So are we supposed to have pity on a young man who's been a superstar for most of his life, because he came in and underperformed, due to the era he was born??

Very little of what you wrote makes a damn bit of sense.

[Housh]

(05-01-2023, 01:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he may finally start in his final year. I doubt he can beat out a motivated Jonah who is looking for a big pay day after this season. 2024 will prob be the year he starts at RT

I actually don’t doubt that he could beat our Jonah. Jonah isn’t weak or anything i just think if he’s gotten real into body composition as a hobby and is telling interviewers he’s changing his body to play RT then that means he’s putting in 1 million times more effort than he did his rookie and sophomore year which makes him a totally new player imo.


I’m honestly coming into camp this year as if he’s a rookie. We’re just hearing so much talk that we didn’t hear in the past. Also now that he knows he can put together a dominant NFL game i think his confidence is through the roof while Jonah’s will be just building back up because of his injury and his play.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2023, 03:21 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Very little of what you wrote makes a damn bit of sense.

You're right, it makes as much sense as making excuses for a grown man, a millionaire young man at that, who underperformed at his job.

[Housh]

(05-02-2023, 10:48 AM)Synric Wrote: There has been so much OL change over the last four years. I believe this will be the first time in several years that it looks like the Bengals will be starting the same 3 IOL. 

When Cappa went down i knew we were gonna get owned by Chris Jones. Our floor is pretty high on the line but i think Cappa getting hurt was just too much. I’d love to get another backup guard that can play both LG and RG but i wonder if we’ve told Carman to prepare to play every position on the line this year. If we’ve asked that of him and he’s gotten himself into the best shape of his life, then then coaches are gonna really love Carman

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2023, 03:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So are we supposed to have pity on a young man who's been a superstar for most of his life, because he came in and underperformed, due to the era he was born??

I must repeat myself: 

bfine32 Wrote:WTH does that even mean?

You're the one who brought up era. I was simply taking issue with the assertion that GEN Z is more mature at a younger age. 18 used the be the age one "entered adulthood" that has changed. Not saying for better or worse, just a fact.


I don't pity JC one bit. 

[Sled21]

I loved the reaction when Carman was asked about Murphy joining the team. He said he's the truth, and that Murphy was really the only Defensive player at Auburn that gave Carman any real work. If that's truly the case, along with his back, there is certainly no surprise he was not exactly NFL ready.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2023, 04:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I loved the reaction when Carman was asked about Murphy joining the team. He said he's the truth, and that Murphy was really the only Defensive player at Auburn that gave Carman any real work. If that's truly the case, along with his back, there is certainly no surprise he was not exactly NFL ready.

You mean at Clemson when they were teammates I am assuming? Don't believe Murpy was at Auburn?

To the OP, Carman is doing and saying all the right things. I am gonna say it, Carman ends up starting at RT over Jonah and plays 
well there. Unless Jonah really gets his anchor up and Carman just doesn't have it on the right side, Carman will be the starter.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(05-01-2023, 01:14 PM)grampahol Wrote: There's a guy here in South Carolina working at Kroger who appears to be a dead ringer for Carman.. I asked him if he's related, but no such luck, but he said he's a huge fan of Jackson though and a big Clemson fan... Completely unrelated, but it's kind of amazing that you'll see someone who looks almost exactly like someone in the public eye and ask yourself if they're just working there as a part time gig till they nail down the starting position..   You never actually know sometimes.

Whereabouts in South Carolina? I live just over the SC border in Union County, NC. 

[Soonerpeace]

(05-02-2023, 03:26 PM)Housh Wrote: I actually don’t doubt that he could beat our Jonah. Jonah isn’t weak or anything i just think if he’s gotten real into body composition as a hobby and is telling interviewers he’s changing his body to play RT then that means he’s putting in 1 million times more effort than he did his rookie and sophomore year which makes him a totally new player imo.


I’m honestly coming into camp this year as if he’s a rookie. We’re just hearing so much talk that we didn’t hear in the past. Also now that he knows he can put together a dominant NFL game i think his confidence is through the roof while Jonah’s will be just building back up because of his injury and his play.

The OL was pretty good the first go around with KC giving up no sacks. I think Orlando is an upgrade, Frank Booth’s all time favorite Cordell Volson has to benefit from 20 starts. Karras and Cappa their second year and a real competition at RT may finally get to top 10. It can propel this offense to remind us all to the Rams “greatest show on turf “