Grade The Draft

[*ochocincos*]

(05-11-2023, 06:00 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Seriously with a hundred opinions out there easily someone could have said it.

Someone could have, sure.
I just hadn't heard/seen it.
I'm curious to know the source 
If it's just from "watching tape" themselves, well that might be more opinion vs fact. If it was more of well-known fact/opinion, I figured we would have seen multiple popular scouting reports mention it.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-11-2023, 06:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Someone could have, sure.
I just hadn't heard/seen it.
I'm curious to know the source 
If it's just from "watching tape" themselves, well that might be more opinion vs fact. If it was more of well-known fact/opinion, I figured we would have seen multiple popular scouting reports mention it.

Darnell Washington: Only Power Five TE with 80+ grades as a receiver AND blocker pic.twitter.com/a7ZA4SkHQl

— PFF College (@PFF_College) December 2, 2021

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I think the draft was extremely thin at OT, OG, C, and DT.

It was deeper at DE, CB, TE, & mid-round RBs.

I think we plan the draft strategy with FA. We arrack positions in FA that we are unlikely to be able to fill in the draft. Once we landed Brown & Smith we did not have real urgency at either spot.

I said all along that Jonah would likely be the RT this year. Drafting Wright, trading Williams for a Day 2 pick & going shopping with $12.6 mil was appealing, but unlikely. Plus this makes us as strong as possible this year, and Carman & Collins are both signed thru '24. If Carman levels up or Collins bounces back, we are just fine NEXT year, as well.

TE surprised me more. Not taking Mayer kinda surprised me, but I thought it was him, Murphy, or Porter Jr. Porter Jr has scheme issues with us, and the thought of him playing here made me feel icky inside, so I was fine with that. Murphy has a much higher ceiling than Mayer, a better athlete, for sure. Turner was good value at #60. Kraft was the only TE I'd have considered there, but again, a better athlete at a more important pisition. No complaints. 3rd Round Battle over Washington/D. Jones was more of a head scratcher for me. Though we may have had both guys off the board for medical/character reasons. I was willing to gamble Rd 3, we were not. Beyond Washington, all the other TE were day 3 guys for me or already gone.

I was overjoyed with Jones, Brown, and Iosivas. Thought Kuntz/Trice/Vorhees in Rd 6. I'd have gambled on the P being there in 7, or just taken Turk/Korsak if not (or as an UDFA). But I get getting our guy. The punter is a starter.

I lot of other teams agreed with us on Mayer (Rd 2), Kraft (Rd 3), Washington (Rd 4), D. Jines (4th), and Kuntz (7th).

[Soonerpeace]

(05-11-2023, 06:39 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think the draft was extremely thin at OT, OG, C, and DT.

It was deeper at DE, CB, TE, & mid-round RBs.

I think we plan the draft strategy with FA. We arrack positions in FA that we are unlikely to be able to fill in the draft. Once we landed Brown & Smith we did not have real urgency at either spot.

I said all along that Jonah would likely be the RT this year. Drafting Wright, trading Williams for a Day 2 pick & going shopping with $12.6 mil was appealing, but unlikely. Plus this makes us as strong as possible this year, and Carman & Collins are both signed thru '24. If Carman levels up or Collins bounces back, we are just fine NEXT year, as well.

TE surprised me more. Not taking Mayer kinda surprised me, but I thought it was him, Murphy, or Porter Jr. Porter Jr has scheme issues with us, and the thought of him playing here made me feel icky inside, so I was fine with that. Murphy has a much higher ceiling than Mayer, a better athlete, for sure. Turner was good value at #60. Kraft was the only TE I'd have considered there, but again, a better athlete at a more important pisition. No complaints. 3rd Round Battle over Washington/D. Jones was more of a head scratcher for me. Though we may have had both guys off the board for medical/character reasons. I was willing to gamble Rd 3, we were not. Beyond Washington, all the other TE were day 3 guys for me or already gone.

I was overjoyed with Jones, Brown, and Iosivas. Thought Kuntz/Trice/Vorhees in Rd 6. I'd have gambled on the P being there in 7, or just taken Turk/Korsak if not (or as an UDFA). But I get getting our guy. The punter is a starter.

I lot of other teams agreed with us on Mayer (Rd 2), Kraft (Rd 3), Washington (Rd 4), D. Jines (4th), and Kuntz (7th).

Solid post

[Whatever]

(05-11-2023, 05:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Where did you hear Washington is very raw as a blocker?
I had not heard that anywhere.

"Despite sloppy overall technique, Washington can be effective at moving defenders when he’s centered on his block. He must improve his footwork and hand usage, as NFL defenders will slip away from his clutches more easily if he’s unsound."

• Footwork into block fits needs work.
• Gets into blocks with wide hands.
• Waist-bender and head-ducker at point of attack.
• Angles to second level lack accuracy.
  

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/darnell-washington/32005741-5318-5860-3ee1-1aca1e440e91

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I should add, the moment we traded down in Rd 3 for an extra 6th, I thought, that's our punter.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I should add, there were those who certainly oiked the Battle pick. Miller at ESPN certainly did. He had it as one of his top 100 picks, along with Turner, Jones, & Brown.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-11-2023, 06:55 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I should add, there were those who certainly oiked the Battle pick. Miller at ESPN certainly did. He had it as one of his top 100 picks, along with Turner, Jones, & Brown.

This is what resonates. We know how picky Saban is with his players in the secondary. Battle started as a true freshman the last 4 games. So he started over 45 games in his career. You have to be smart to do that. He was ALL SEC 2 straight years. You have to be athletic to do that. And I’ve never ever heard Saban have more praise of player for his leadership. He was a steal.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-11-2023, 06:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: "Despite sloppy overall technique, Washington can be effective at moving defenders when he’s centered on his block. He must improve his footwork and hand usage, as NFL defenders will slip away from his clutches more easily if he’s unsound."

• Footwork into block fits needs work.
• Gets into blocks with wide hands.
• Waist-bender and head-ducker at point of attack.
• Angles to second level lack accuracy.
  

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/darnell-washington/32005741-5318-5860-3ee1-1aca1e440e91

Gotcha.
Musta not remembered it from reading the NFL.com prospect profile.
Regardless, I don't think he's going to struggle as a blocker just because of the things you have listed.
I think he'll still be used to block and will be fine, only going to get even better with better technique and footwork.

[Whatever]

(05-12-2023, 09:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Gotcha.
Musta not remembered it from reading the NFL.com prospect profile.
Regardless, I don't think he's going to struggle as a blocker just because of the things you have listed.
I think he'll still be used to block and will be fine, only going to get even better with better technique and footwork.

I don't think he'll be bad, just probably not Reggie Kelly 2.0 like people are expecting early on.  

From the Bengals ' perspective, I think the knock on his second level blocking is pretty big.  A primary 11 team will need the TE to get 2nd level blocks a lot on zone runs.  TE has a pretty steep learning curve, as they have to basically learn WR and OL skill sets, plus they often have to learn Fullback and H-back and ST roles.  With injury concerns, particularly with his knee swelling at the combine, it does raise questions as to whether he'll be on the practice field enough to fix those issues.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-12-2023, 04:02 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think he'll be bad, just probably not Reggie Kelly 2.0 like people are expecting early on.  

From the Bengals ' perspective, I think the knock on his second level blocking is pretty big.  A primary 11 team will need the TE to get 2nd level blocks a lot on zone runs.  TE has a pretty steep learning curve, as they have to basically learn WR and OL skill sets, plus they often have to learn Fullback and H-back and ST roles.  With injury concerns, particularly with his knee swelling at the combine, it does raise questions as to whether he'll be on the practice field enough to fix those issues.

DW was my favorite TE in this class, but I knew nothing about the knee problems or about him having some knocks on his second level
blocking. Now I have to trust our coaches and the FO and hope they know something I didn't. Sounds like they did, and I am liking us 
passing on DW more and more. Hope the dude sucks with the stealers and they made a big mistake in drafting him.

[BengalFanInCanada]

(05-12-2023, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: DW was my favorite TE in this class, but I knew nothing about the knee problems or about him having some knocks on his second level
blocking. Now I have to trust our coaches and the FO and hope they know something I didn't. Sounds like they did, and I am liking us 
passing on DW more and more. Hope the dude sucks with the stealers and they made a big mistake in drafting him.

It was well known and the reason he fell.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-12-2023, 08:26 PM)BengalFanInCanada Wrote: It was well known and the reason he fell.

Not by many fans. I didn't get any info on the injury/mental/blocking issues until like a few days before the draft.

[OSUfan]

(05-12-2023, 08:26 PM)BengalFanInCanada Wrote: It was well known and the reason he fell.

No it really was not.

[SladeX]

I have ZERO problem with not drafting yet another injured player. No, the head scratcher to me is why any fan of this team, given it’s history with drafting injured players in the upper rounds as recently as Carman, would want any part of Washington . Gluttons for punishment? So, so fixated on shiny new toys?
I’m glad this team is learning from their mistakes.

[Soonerpeace]

The Organization has made few mistakes the last few years. The biggest? The OL. I’m not a proponent of it cost us because of lack of coaching/commitment. Have we missed on some guys? Sure we have. I’m a believer that had we kept the OL healthy we’d won it all. But they went and got 3 good ones in 2022 in FA. I think we’ve finally gotten a top 10 OL. I think Volson will be much improved. I know Frank Booth thinks he’s going to be All-Pro. I’m not going that far. I think whoever ends up at RT plays well. Cappa and Karras should be even better with two years together. Orlando of course is a load. But you all better get ready this years Cincy team will be the best ever.

[KillerGoose]

(05-13-2023, 12:22 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The Organization has made few mistakes the last few years. The biggest? The OL. I’m not a proponent of it cost us because of lack of coaching/commitment. Have we missed on some guys? Sure we have. I’m a believer that had we kept the OL healthy we’d won it all. But they went and got 3 good ones in 2022 in FA. I think we’ve finally gotten a top 10 OL. I think Volson will be much improved. I know Frank Booth thinks he’s going to be All-Pro. I’m not going that far. I think whoever ends up at RT plays well. Cappa and Karras should be even better with two years together. Orlando of course is a load. But you all better get ready this years Cincy team will be the best ever.

I think Cincinnati is close to having a really good offensive line. It just depends on what Volson does and how RT shakes out in my mind. Towards the end of the year, Volson was pass blocking close to league average and had slowly been trending up all season. I don't think he has a very high ceiling but if he can maintain that trajectory and play at a level slightly above league average, then he and Orlando will be solid tandem on the left side. The right side is a bit more curious as we have Jonah transitioning, which can be tough, an inconsistent player who flashes in Carman, and a known commodity in Ford, who hasn't been anything to write home about. I think Jonah will win out as he is the best among the three, but switching sides can really pose problems for some guys so he may experience some growing pains early on.

[Nepa]

(05-12-2023, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: DW was my favorite TE in this class, but I knew nothing about the knee problems or about him having some knocks on his second level
blocking. Now I have to trust our coaches and the FO and hope they know something I didn't. Sounds like they did, and I am liking us 
passing on DW more and more. Hope the dude sucks with the stealers and they made a big mistake in drafting him.

Have we heard anything definitively that the Bengals didn't want DW? They may have thought they could pick up another 6th round pick for a punter, move down a few spots, and still get DW. Pittsburgh picking him up may have surprised them, since they didn't seem to be in he market for a TE after having used a high pick on one last year. Or, maybe they had a couple of players with about the same grade, including DW, and decided to trade down, pick up the 6th, and take the one who was left at their pick.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-13-2023, 12:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think Cincinnati is close to having a really good offensive line. It just depends on what Volson does and how RT shakes out in my mind. Towards the end of the year, Volson was pass blocking close to league average and had slowly been trending up all season. I don't think he has a very high ceiling but if he can maintain that trajectory and play at a level slightly above league average, then he and Orlando will be solid tandem on the left side. The right side is a bit more curious as we have Jonah transitioning, which can be tough, an inconsistent player who flashes in Carman, and a known commodity in Ford, who hasn't been anything to write home about. I think Jonah will win out as he is the best among the three, but switching sides can really pose problems for some guys so he may experience some growing pains early on.

Great analysis. Ford is not a cinch to even make the team according to my source that lives in the dungeon at Paycor lol. If the OL becomes a strength instead of a weakness then I think we will be ridiculously good.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-13-2023, 09:50 AM)OSUfan Wrote: No it really was not.

Seriously, so true. Where was all this info leading up to the Draft? We were on the Draft forum analyzing hundreds of players and DW 
was one of the top players most all wanted especially if he fell to the 2nd Round. We heard something about a mental question about a 
week leading up to the Draft and never heard anything about bad knees...

If I would of heard about any injury questions with him he would of fell down my board big time just like he did. Same with you I am 
sure OSUfan. Kincaid was the one TE I did not want because of his questionable back and his questionable blocking.

(05-13-2023, 01:17 PM)Nepa Wrote: Have we heard anything definitively that the Bengals didn't want DW? They may have thought they could pick up another 6th round pick for a punter, move down a few spots, and still get DW. Pittsburgh picking him up may have surprised them, since they didn't seem to be in he market for a TE after having used a high pick on one last year. Or, maybe they had a couple of players with about the same grade, including DW, and decided to trade down, pick up the 6th, and take the one who was left at their pick.

Well, we passed on him 3 times and lots had DW going in the 1st Round...

Plus, we seem to love the guys we got, I sure do. Myles Murphy, DJ Turner and Jordan Battle could be studs down the road.

It did surprise me with the stealers grabbing DW, maybe we would of picked him if they did not, maybe we wouldn't, I have no idea.

We seem to value Defense and WR's much more than TE's. Even the UDFA we got at TE I know nothing about and we still haven't
brought back Mitch Wilcox (hope we do).