idea to make sure we win for years

[XenoMorph]

(06-14-2023, 07:53 PM)Leon Wrote: 1 let burrow play on his contract this year and dont give him a new deal that will cripple the team

2 after the season trade burrow to whoever has the first pick and take caleb williams from usc

this lets you compete for a sb this year and gives you a new franchise qb on rookie deal next year
you also get many draft picks and have lots of cap room to keep more good players longer

it makes sure we keep competing for super bowls for years and have plenty of picks and money

Lets review Zacs record without Burrow on the field

[Leon]

(06-16-2023, 04:25 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Lets review Zacs record without Burrow on the field

zac was rebuilding and changing roster an culture. i remember most bengals fans wanting him fired. talk about a silly idea.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-16-2023, 04:13 PM)Leon Wrote: fair enough points. also maybe im much higher on williams than most or maybe im way more worried about the top players we will lose. like i said im not saying my idea was the best. just an idea. maybe im just looking to much down the road.

Fair point about looking down the road. On paper, this is the best offensive line we've had in years. The Bengals have pushed their chips in on the line this year. To me, they're attacking 2023 with intentions to win it all. No way you trade the franchise this year. I personally would never trade Joe, but especially not THIS season.

[Leon]

(06-16-2023, 04:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Fair point about looking down the road. On paper, this is the best offensive line we've had in years. The Bengals have pushed their chips in on the line this year. To me, they're attacking 2023 with intentions to win it all. No way you trade the franchise this year. I personally would never trade Joe, but especially not THIS season.

i also worry about losing lou. his scheme and players is so speficic to his style. how will a new guy do and how long will it take.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-16-2023, 04:13 PM)Leon Wrote: fair enough points. also maybe im much higher on williams than most or maybe im way more worried about the top players we will lose. like i said im not saying my idea was the best. just an idea. maybe im just looking to much down the road.

I probably have not seen Williams play as much you. Definitely not as much as I saw of Burrow at LSU. So my sample size is small. I could change my mind by the end of the season. But as of today, it would be a hard no for me.

I’ve watched the both play hurt and I didn’t see the same amount of grit from Williams as I have from Burrow. That’s completely subjective. But, I admire Burrow’s ability to keep going when it gets difficult. (Intestinal fortitude.)

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-16-2023, 04:49 PM)Leon Wrote: i also worry about losing lou. his scheme and players is so speficic to his style. how will a new guy do and how long will it take.

I'd like to keep Lou around too. However, some of the free agents that were acquired for his scheme are coming up for contract renewal this year or next, so maybe a transition wouldn't be too awful at this specific point. If you get another DC, ideally, this would be a good time to flip the defense a little if you changed up the scheme.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-16-2023, 11:00 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I like Higgins a lot but he's not a Ja'Marr Chase, game-changer type. I'd put him as a lower end tier 2 WR, where Chase is a clear tier 1. All of the rankings i saw online have Tee as a tier 3, around 10 to 14ish. Tier 1 right now is JJ and Chase...that's it.

I’d probably still have Adams and Tyreek in tier 1, but agree with the rest.

[Graphicguy]

(06-16-2023, 04:07 PM)casear2727 Wrote: So basically you are saying that Chase is tiers below Davonte Adams, JJ, Kupp, Terry McLaurin, and CeeDee Lamb, amongst others?

How did you come up with that from what I posted?

Back to the thought of trading Burrow. If that was actually done, that will go down in Cincinnati Pro sports history as trading Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas…or turning down the entire draft of the NO Saints to draft Akili Smith!

It would be inexcusable!

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-16-2023, 09:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d probably still have Adams and Tyreek in tier 1, but agree with the rest.

I think the point of contention with those guys is the QB situation. If that was more stable, then each guy would be right there.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-16-2023, 10:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think the point of contention with those guys is the QB situation. If that was more stable, then each guy would be right there.

That makes sense.

[casear2727]

(06-16-2023, 09:29 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: How did you come up with that from what I posted?

Back to the thought of trading Burrow.  If that was actually done, that will go down in Cincinnati Pro sports history as trading Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas…or turning down the entire draft of the NO Saints to draft Akili Smith!  

It would be inexcusable!

Your comment regarding Chase seemed like an indictment of him or Burrow.  Those other WR's I mentioned don't have a Higgins and they all do well.  I think you may be undervaluing the star potential of JoeyB and Chase....  If they require a superstar WR2 then they are not at the level many of us think they are...

[*Synric*]

(06-16-2023, 05:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd like to keep Lou around too. However, some of the free agents that were acquired for his scheme are coming up for contract renewal this year or next, so maybe a transition wouldn't be too awful at this specific point. If you get another DC, ideally, this would be a good time to flip the defense a little if you changed up the scheme.

James Bettcher is already on staff which I believe is the most likely transition. Really the Bengals entire defensive staff is a great mix of old and young. I'm a big fan of Hobby and Livingston. 

[grampahol]

(06-14-2023, 08:00 PM)Leon Wrote: its just an idea. whats wrong with that

Other than being an absolutely terrible idea?  Nothing at all.. When you grow up get an exciting career as a terrible idea professional.. 

[Graphicguy]

(06-16-2023, 11:40 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Your comment regarding Chase seemed like an indictment of him or Burrow.  Those other WR's I mentioned don't have a Higgins and they all do well.  I think you may be undervaluing the star potential of JoeyB and Chase....  If they require a superstar WR2 then they are not at the level many of us think they are...

Not at all. I think all 3 are All Pro, and will be for the foreseeable future. Without one, the rest won’t be as good. Kind of like a car with one dead cylinder. Yeah, it will run….not nearly as well when all are flirting, but it will run.

Double/triple teaming Chase, which is what would invariably happen if HIggins leaves, would be a negative for Burrow, Chase and the team overall.

This is especially true given this is probably Boyd’s last year here. Use Boyd’s contract off the books to offset Higgins. Use Mixon’s contract off the books to offset Burrow’s. Won’t cover all, but will cover a lot. Plus, as I mentioned before, the CAP will continue to rise, which also makes keeping this trio together possible. Together they are just so danged hard to defend.

Where this notion of letting your best players walk in the prime of their career for unknown draft picks is insane. To get…..what? Someone who may be as good? Or, more likely, inferior to what we have. Why do that?

You drafted these players. You developed these players. And, you want to dump them for draft pics as a result? What’s the point?

[casear2727]

(06-17-2023, 10:55 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: Not at all.  I think all 3 are All Pro, and will be for the foreseeable future.  Without one, the rest won’t be as good.  Kind of like a car with one dead cylinder.  Yeah, it will run….not nearly as well when all are flirting, but it will run.

Double/triple teaming Chase, which is what would invariably happen if HIggins leaves, would be a negative for Burrow, Chase and the team overall.

This is especially true given this is probably Boyd’s last year here.  Use Boyd’s contract off the books to offset Higgins.  Use Mixon’s contract off the books to offset Burrow’s.  Won’t cover all, but will cover a lot.  Plus, as I mentioned before, the CAP will continue to rise, which also makes keeping this trio together possible. Together they are just so danged hard to defend.

Where this notion of letting your best players walk in the prime of their career for unknown draft picks is insane.  To get…..what?  Someone who may be as good?  Or, more likely, inferior to what we have.  Why do that?

You drafted these players.  You developed these players.  And, you want to dump them for draft pics as a result?  What’s the point?

I'm not for letting great players go and I do think we are better with Higgins. My statement was in regards to the potential negative impact of losing Tee.  Mahomes won a SB with a TE, Davonte and Rogers were great.  Brady didnt have one great WR outside of Moss one year. much less 2  I would hope Burrow and Chase could still succeed, although I'd prefer it be easier with Tee.

[Graphicguy]

(06-17-2023, 11:52 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I'm not for letting great players go and I do think we are better with Higgins. My statement was in regards to the potential negative impact of losing Tee.  Mahomes won a SB with a TE, Davonte and Rogers were great.  Brady didnt have one great WR outside of Moss one year. much less 2  I would hope Burrow and Chase could still succeed, although I'd prefer it be easier with Tee.

I keep seeing people say "Mahomes" did this, or did that.  Mahomes has had a better OL (up until this coming season).  He has one of the best TEs in the game (if not THE best TE).  He has/had Robinson, Hill, etc.   

Brady again, had a great OL.  He had Moss.  He had Gronk....amondola, Edelman, Welker, Deon Branch...etc.

JB has had terrible OLs (a little better last year...hopefully much better this year).  He has had middling TEs...yeah they were decent, but not like what Mahomes or Brady has had.

Again, why we would want to trade any players at the top of their games and among the best (if not THE BEST) in the NFL for unknown draft picks, just baffles me to no end.

[casear2727]

(06-17-2023, 02:30 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: I keep seeing people say "Mahomes" did this, or did that.  Mahomes has had a better OL (up until this coming season).  He has one of the best TEs in the game (if not THE best TE).  He has/had Robinson, Hill, etc.   

Brady again, had a great OL.  He had Moss.  He had Gronk....amondola, Edelman, Welker, Deon Branch...etc.

JB has had terrible OLs (a little better last year...hopefully much better this year).  He has had middling TEs...yeah they were decent, but not like what Mahomes or Brady has had.

Again, why we would want to trade any players at the top of their games and among the best (if not THE BEST) in the NFL for unknown draft picks, just baffles me to no end.

Again, you are missing the point of my statement.  I agree with you in that I do not want to trade good pieces, I was simply saying that if Burrow and Chase are as great as we think they are then they should be successful.   If for some reason we do not extend Tee I would hope that cash would go to the oline. 

[Tony]

(06-14-2023, 08:28 PM)Leon Wrote: i didnt know that. what was his reason? i know he likes rap though

I'm guessing cuz it completely sucks...

[Graphicguy]

(06-17-2023, 04:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Again, you are missing the point of my statement.  I agree with you in that I do not want to trade good pieces, I was simply saying that if Burrow and Chase are as great as we think they are then they should be successful.   If for some reason we do not extend Tee I would hope that cash would go to the oline. 

As you said, we’re better with Tee HIggins and Joe Burrow than without them. So, keep making the team better…not worse.

Mixon can be replaced, and a good chance we get better for cheaper by doing so. Same with any TE we line up. Colins didn’t work out. Jettison him without hurting the team.

Keep your best players, not trade them for someone who has done NOTHING in the NFL (like any draft pick you would get for them). That makes no sense.

It doesn’t matter. The only people who want us to trade HIggins are those teams who want a shot at getting him. Pundits want us to trade him knowing it makes us worse. Tobin has said it over and over. Higgins is staying here. HIggins has said he want so stay here. Why are we still debating this?

[casear2727]

(06-18-2023, 12:23 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: As you said, we’re better with Tee HIggins and Joe Burrow than without them.  So, keep making the team better…not worse.

Mixon can be replaced, and a good chance we get better for cheaper by doing so.  Same with any TE we line up.  Colins didn’t work out.  Jettison him without hurting the team.

Keep your best players, not trade them for someone who has done NOTHING in the NFL (like any draft pick you would get for them).  That makes no sense.

It doesn’t matter.  The only people who want us to trade HIggins are those teams who want a shot at getting him.  Pundits want us to trade him knowing it makes us worse.  Tobin has said it over and over.  Higgins is staying here.  HIggins has said he want so stay here.  Why are we still debating this?

Im with most of this, except the LC take, that doesnt make much sense and doesnt save us hardly anything if we let him go now.