Our offense has been this good with a bad o line and only using a % of the playbook

[Housh]

This season is going to be crazy. Zac and Brian Callahan have said in multiple interviews they are excited to open up the playbook and call more plays that require the line to block longer.


I expect this to translate to more deep shots and more receptions for all 3 WRs. When teams realize their defense of coming out in a 2 high shell and rolling the coverage to what they really want to run after the snap doesn’t work if Burrow has time teams will have to come out in what they actually want to run, allowing our guys to have 1 on 1s more often. Last year Jamarr and Tee could go whole quarters where the D simply did not leave him 1 on 1. I think with the playbook opened up and teams having to cover longer, we will EXPLODE. Even if the run game still sucks, simply getting that extra time to throw, with a full playbook at our disposal i do not see how we aren’t the best offense in the league.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-27-2023, 01:33 PM)Housh Wrote: This season is going to be crazy. Zac and Brian Callahan have said in multiple interviews they are excited to open up the playbook and call more plays that require the line to block longer.


I expect this to translate to more deep shots and more receptions for all 3 WRs. When teams realize their defense of coming out in a 2 high shell and rolling the coverage to what they really want to run after the snap doesn’t work if Burrow has time teams will have to come out in what they actually want to run, allowing our guys to have 1 on 1s more often. Last year Jamarr and Tee could go whole quarters where the D simply did not leave him 1 on 1. I think with the playbook opened up and teams having to cover longer, we will EXPLODE. Even if the run game still sucks, simply getting that extra time to throw, with a full playbook at our disposal i do not see how we aren’t the best offense in the league.

The injury to Joe really altered the playbook. Joe hates the short passes and in fact frustrates him when they get batted down. He likes to throw a skinny post or short slant. Now he’s more conditioned to be more methodical. But with time he’s going to be lethal.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-27-2023, 01:33 PM)Housh Wrote: This season is going to be crazy. Zac and Brian Callahan have said in multiple interviews they are excited to open up the playbook and call more plays that require the line to block longer.


I expect this to translate to more deep shots and more receptions for all 3 WRs. When teams realize their defense of coming out in a 2 high shell and rolling the coverage to what they really want to run after the snap doesn’t work if Burrow has time teams will have to come out in what they actually want to run, allowing our guys to have 1 on 1s more often. Last year Jamarr and Tee could go whole quarters where the D simply did not leave him 1 on 1. I think with the playbook opened up and teams having to cover longer, we will EXPLODE. Even if the run game still sucks, simply getting that extra time to throw, with a full playbook at our disposal i do not see how we aren’t the best offense in the league.

Also Burrow learned how to dissect Defenses when they run the cover 2 last year. Sure seems like we are on the tipping point of 
becoming that next great Offense if our OL can give Burrow some time and maybe have a decent running game. Really like Chase
Brown as a fit in this Offense, same with Irv Smith Jr if he can finally stay healthy.

I also believe we have been limited because of poor OL play as far as how much of a percentage of the Playbook can be used.

Should be a blast watching this Offense this year.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-27-2023, 01:33 PM)Housh Wrote: This season is going to be crazy. Zac and Brian Callahan have said in multiple interviews they are excited to open up the playbook and call more plays that require the line to block longer.


I expect this to translate to more deep shots and more receptions for all 3 WRs. When teams realize their defense of coming out in a 2 high shell and rolling the coverage to what they really want to run after the snap doesn’t work if Burrow has time teams will have to come out in what they actually want to run, allowing our guys to have 1 on 1s more often. Last year Jamarr and Tee could go whole quarters where the D simply did not leave him 1 on 1. I think with the playbook opened up and teams having to cover longer, we will EXPLODE. Even if the run game still sucks, simply getting that extra time to throw, with a full playbook at our disposal i do not see how we aren’t the best offense in the league.

I'm not buying it till we perform. We still have 80% of the same line on paper from last year and now with one signing and no game action our playback is full go? 

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-27-2023, 02:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Also Burrow learned how to dissect Defenses when they run the cover 2 last year. Sure seems like we are on the tipping point of 
becoming that next great Offense if our OL can give Burrow some time and maybe have a decent running game. Really like Chase
Brown as a fit in this Offense, same with Irv Smith Jr if he can finally stay healthy.

I also believe we have been limited because of poor OL play as far as how much of a percentage of the Playbook can be used.

Should be a blast watching this Offense this year.

This.  It was a brief resurgence of the running game that got the offense really rolling at one point, but overall it was Joe's ability to find underneath routes and use the check down more often.

Your point about Irv Smith, Jr. is often glossed over as not very significant, but he has a lot more speed and elusiveness than any of the previous TEs and they all did pretty well.  He could be a nice surprise.  I just hope he stays healthy.  

[Joelist]

The line actually was playing pretty well (upper tier in pass protect) after they got into sync. The blame for the early season issues has multiple causes:

- Burrow's surgery erasing his preseason
- Zac not putting the starting OL into preseason games, which meant that Opening Day was literally their first game speed snaps together as a unit
- Defenses in Cover 2 and the coaches clearly had not fully thought out how to attack it

In that period when the line was more in sync the offense was effective. Then of course in successive games we lost our starting RT, RG and LT. As a right side, Adeniji and Scharping held up okay for Buffalo then in the AFCCG they both got abused.

We have the right pieces for the line. We need to make sure this time they they actually work together enough so that on Opening Day we don't have a plague of communication issues. Also lay down the law to Mixon - no dancing. He gets one cut at max. Run North-South and hit the hole.

All that said, I do think we will be better able to use the playbook based on the draft and free agency adds.

[Soonerpeace]

(07-04-2023, 02:24 PM)Joelist Wrote: The line actually was playing pretty well (upper tier in pass protect) after they got into sync. The blame for the early season issues has multiple causes:

- Burrow's surgery erasing his preseason
- Zac not putting the starting OL into preseason games, which meant that Opening Day was literally their first game speed snaps together as a unit
- Defenses in Cover 2 and the coaches clearly had not fully thought out how to attack it

In that period when the line was more in sync the offense was effective. Then of course in successive games we lost our starting RT, RG and LT. As a right side, Adeniji and Scharping held up okay for Buffalo then in the AFCCG they both got abused.

We have the right pieces for the line. We need to make sure this time they they actually work together enough so that on Opening Day we don't have a plague of communication issues. Also lay down the law to Mixon - no dancing. He gets one cut at max. Run North-South and hit the hole.

All that said, I do think we will be better able to use the playbook based on the draft and free agency adds.

Add Joe in that equation. He hates the methodical passing game. You don’t think between Dan Pitcher, Brian Callahan, and Zac don’t know how to attack the deep cover 2 and rush 3 drop 8. They’ve seen everything. Most of them have been around football all their lives. Brian was a QB and Zac and Dan. Joe was the one pushing back. He said so n pressers much later in the season. Not saying they were ready but Joe absolutely without any doubt was a part of it.

“To see him improve an area of his game that really helped the offense reach the next level that we're capable of reaching was really a joy to be around and watch and to coach,” Callahan said. “He just started to understand what it meant to move our offense efficiently, that it didn't have to always be a touchdown. We don't always have to have an explosive play.”

https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/01/how-zac-taylor-and-joe-burrow-transformed-the-cincinnati-bengals-offensive-line/

[SunsetBengal]

(07-04-2023, 02:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Add Joe in that equation. He hates the methodical passing game. You don’t think between Dan Pitcher, Brian Callahan, and Zac don’t know how to attack the deep cover 2 and rush 3 drop 8. They’ve seen everything. Most of them have been around football all their lives. Brian was a QB and Zac and Dan. Joe was the one pushing back. He said so n pressers much later in the season. Not saying they were ready but Joe absolutely without any doubt was a part of it.

“To see him improve an area of his game that really helped the offense reach the next level that we're capable of reaching was really a joy to be around and watch and to coach,” Callahan said. “He just started to understand what it meant to move our offense efficiently, that it didn't have to always be a touchdown. We don't always have to have an explosive play.”

https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/01/how-zac-taylor-and-joe-burrow-transformed-the-cincinnati-bengals-offensive-line/

Agreed, and as a BONUS, working down the field in methodic fashion allows your defensive unit to get a full rest between series on the field.  Kind of a win-win, when you think about it.

[BengalsLUFC]

This isn’t a knock on the staff or Joe but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Taylor runs the same plays a majority of the time and when he does try change things it does seem to go tits up.

For every flea flicker against the browns you have the Philly special against the Ravens.

Until we establish the run game being a constant threat I think it will look very similar to last season, Mixon really needs to earn that money this season.

[Soonerpeace]

(07-04-2023, 03:55 PM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: This isn’t a knock on the staff or Joe but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Taylor runs the same plays a majority of the time and when he does try change things it does seem to go tits up.

For every flea flicker against the browns you have the Philly special against the Ravens.

Until we establish the run game being a constant threat I think it will look very similar to last season, The Athletic beat writers and insiders ranked the Bengals OL 28th. They really need to earn that money this season so Mixon can find success.

FIFY



Also: From Opta Sports Data ( largest sports data analyst company in the world)
Matt Sisernos : There were few offensive coaches in the NFL who were better at playing to the strengths and weaknesses of their personnel than Cincinnati Bengals head coach Zac Taylor this season.

And it is possible that Taylor, who adjusted his play-calling to minimize the issues Cincinnati faced along its offensive line last season, doesn’t really get the credit he’s due after taking his team to a second straight AFC championship game against the Kansas City Chiefs this year.

And used by Leeds Inited LOL

[Essex Johnson]

(07-04-2023, 02:24 PM)Joelist Wrote: The line actually was playing pretty well (upper tier in pass protect) after they got into sync. The blame for the early season issues has multiple causes:

- Burrow's surgery erasing his preseason
- Zac not putting the starting OL into preseason games, which meant that Opening Day was literally their first game speed snaps together as a unit
- Defenses in Cover 2 and the coaches clearly had not fully thought out how to attack it

In that period when the line was more in sync the offense was effective. Then of course in successive games we lost our starting RT, RG and LT. As a right side, Adeniji and Scharping held up okay for Buffalo then in the AFCCG they both got abused.

We have the right pieces for the line. We need to make sure this time they they actually work together enough so that on Opening Day we don't have a plague of communication issues. Also lay down the law to Mixon - no dancing. He gets one cut at max. Run North-South and hit the hole.

All that said, I do think we will be better able to use the playbook based on the draft and free agency adds.

You left out Pollack not having line ready especially in communication.

In the end teams are judged as a whole since all teams can point to setbacks injuries etc. So in the end our line rated again in the 20s on most evaluations

[Housh]

That’s the next level of progression Burrow has to co to us taking.

At 1st he couldn’t beat the cover 2 because he was so used to taking big shots. He started getting more conservative last year and checking down and he became a better pro QB by doing that. Wether you score on a 4 min, 8 play drive or a 9 minute, 16 play drive makes no difference as long as you have more points than the other team after the time hits zero.


Burrow i think will take another step and be able to take more shots against the cover 2, and when he does that, teams won’t have anything to revert back to. Because they can’t go to a cover 4 shell. Welll run that to death with Mixon. They can’t run mostly man or cover 1 because we’ve now got 4 WR options i believe are above average and like 2 more that are great. Teams can’t sit in cover 3 because we’ll just destroy it by picking on the safety and going deep to whoever the safety doesn’t double.

Like if we can figure out the cover 2 the league is ******.


Only thing more dangerous than Burrow is Burrow with time in the pocket. We saw that at LSU and Joe gave us the best single season a QB ever had in college. He could do the same in the NFL

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-05-2023, 02:12 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You left out Pollack not having line ready especially in communication.

In the end teams are judged as a whole since all teams can point to setbacks injuries etc. So in the end our line rated again in the 20s on most evaluations

The line was playing very well from game 3 to game 15 when the injuries started. 

[casear2727]

(06-27-2023, 01:53 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The injury to Joe really altered the playbook. Joe hates the short passes and in fact frustrates him when they get batted down. He likes to throw a skinny post or short slant. Now he’s more conditioned to be more methodical. But with time he’s going to be lethal.

(07-04-2023, 02:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Add Joe in that equation. He hates the methodical passing game. You don’t think between Dan Pitcher, Brian Callahan, and Zac don’t know how to attack the deep cover 2 and rush 3 drop 8. They’ve seen everything. Most of them have been around football all their lives. Brian was a QB and Zac and Dan. Joe was the one pushing back. He said so n pressers much later in the season. Not saying they were ready but Joe absolutely without any doubt was a part of it.

Im going to disagree with this "hate" reference regarding short and methodical passing.  Just isnt the case, changing up to more check downs is simply part of the game and Joe loves the game within the game.  The only things we know that Joe doesnt actually like is inside pass rush and turning his back to the defense on play action (which was likely a trust issue due to poor blocking).

[Joelist]

(07-07-2023, 01:06 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The line was playing very well from game 3 to game 15 when the injuries started. 

Exactly. Like it or not Zac has to take part of the hit for the issues as by giving the line no snaps together as a unit in preseason Opening Day was literally their first game speed snaps together as a unit. Also we had Jonah playing hurt all season and the kneecaps basically kneecapped his ability to anchor.

[Soonerpeace]

(07-07-2023, 05:19 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Im going to disagree with this "hate" reference regarding short and methodical passing.  Just isnt the case, changing up to more check downs is simply part of the game and Joe loves the game within the game.  The only things we know that Joe doesnt actually like is inside pass rush and turning his back to the defense on play action (which was likely a trust issue due to poor blocking).

You are probably right hate the wrong word. But Brian Callahan’s comments absolutely point to Joe’s early reluctance to adjust to way defenses were playing us. Originally I was just responding to a post that all the blame was on Zac and Brian. I just said add Joe in the equation.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-04-2023, 01:14 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  It was a brief resurgence of the running game that got the offense really rolling at one point, but overall it was Joe's ability to find underneath routes and use the check down more often.

Your point about Irv Smith, Jr. is often glossed over as not very significant, but he has a lot more speed and elusiveness than any of the previous TEs and they all did pretty well.  He could be a nice surprise.  I just hope he stays healthy.  

For sure, Burrow learned to take what the Defense gave him last year, just another huge growth in his pro game. Cannot go for the 
Home Run all the time. Irv is talented all be it undersized, but he is faster than Uzo for sure on the field and those middle TE screens
could really be a vicious weapon with his addition. He is hard to tackle as well.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-07-2023, 01:42 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You are probably right hate the wrong word. But Brian Callahan’s comments absolutely point to Joe’s early reluctance to adjust to way defenses were playing us. Originally I was just responding to a post that all the blame was on Zac and Brian. I just said add Joe in the equation.

Joe may not like to work methodically down the field, but he sure does love winning.  Besides, working what the defense gives frustrates a defense, that is when the big play opportunities happen.  Not only for offensive purposes, working the ball downfield also keeps the defense fresh and ready to get the offense the ball back, so that they can go down and score again.

[Soonerpeace]

(07-07-2023, 08:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Joe may not like to work methodically down the field, but he sure does love winning .  Besides, working what the defense gives frustrates a defense, that is when the big play opportunities happen.  Not only for offensive purposes, working the ball downfield also keeps the defense fresh and ready to get the offense the ball back, so that they can go down and score again.

Definitely and why after a few games he adapted and bought in like Brian Callahan said.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-07-2023, 08:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Joe may not like to work methodically down the field, but he sure does love winning.  Besides, working what the defense gives frustrates a defense, that is when the big play opportunities happen.  Not only for offensive purposes, working the ball downfield also keeps the defense fresh and ready to get the offense the ball back, so that they can go down and score again.

Truth, actually we were a quick strike Offense the year before this and it probably hurt the Defense a bit because they were on the
field significantly more often. Those long drives that end in TD's give you a big time advantage and most likely end in wins more often
as well because you tire the opposing Defense and keep your Defense off the field. Burrow knows this.