(07-04-2023, 04:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: Definitely, but Edge as least has chord/position changes in his parts. Most of Gilmour's performance in "Give Blood" is sitting in a single position and repeating the same simple pattern ad nauseam with no deviation. And his solo is just a slow walk up of a major scale. I mean, that's just a classic example of a guy using effects as a crutch instead of a tool.
I like most of Pink Floyd's catalogue and I have a lot of respect for Gilmour as an artist, but it's ridiculous to me that some have to take things a step further and try to categorize him as some kind of guitar god. He's by no means Kurt Cobain bad on the instrument, but his playing certainly doesn't deserve placement on a pedestal, either.
Most people who do not play have no idea when a delay is being used. They actually think the player is picking all those notes. It's part f the magic....
(06-30-2023, 08:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: My very first rock concert was Robert, Jimmy, John Paul and Bonzo at the Riverfront Coliseum in 1977 (2nd night). The thing I never really got with Zeppelin (my favorite) is Page and Plant got all the attention, Bonzo was pretty much worshipped by drummers everywhere when he died. Plant was Knighted. But, listen to any Zeppelin song and it is plain they are all driven by Jones' bass or organ, not Page's guitar. I (And, he did all the arrangements) In fact, when Page was in his heavy heroin days, his playing became very sloppy. Yet, Jones is the least recognized of the band.
Damn also saw them in 77, and i agree 100% with you JPJ was the force behind Led Zeppelin. Funny I also feel Queen's John Deacon was also the hidden weapon of the band.
Not to turn this into a pissing match, but LZ is arguably one of the most-overrated bands that ever existed:
- Plant may had had a 4 octave range, but he never (or rarely) used it and just screamed and made, "sex noises," 1/3 of the time (not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's a waste of talent).
- Jones may be a great, "arranger," but big deal: he's a mediocre at best bassist and to bring up the Who again, Entiwistle could arrange circles around Jones, not to mention he is 10x the bassist and overall musician.
- Bonham is easily one of the biggest stamina drummers that ever lived, but A: many other guys basically have that stamina and B: his beats are not that intricate or difficult. I mean, you want to talk about stamina/keeping in time at a VERY brisk pace, Simon Phillips is a SESSION musician, FFS:
And nobody touches Neil Peart: he's truly at the very #1 spot of drummers all-time and HIS writing/arranging prowess was 2nd to none.
- Page, I feel, is the only true transcendent talent in the group, but only as a guitar player (which he is at the top of the game), as he is a passable song writer at best (and Plant as a lyricist isn't much better).
They are great, blues band that got super popular and that popularity never waned... and when you're that popular, people tend to not criticise/look at things subjectively When stacked up against their most-supreme peers of the time (Floyd, the Who), they come in 3rd. And if we want to include the prog rock bands, they come in behind half a dozen of them.
And I detest Pink Floyd lol. Save for Bike. That song is golden.
EDIT* and for the topic at hand, TS is another mediocre at best pop act, that got famous for her lame HS break up songs and now is doing the pop tart thing that dozens of other chicks did before her, rinse and repeat. As Matt Pinfield once said...
Applies to TS 100%... save for the song writing: she at least writes all her own songs.
It boggles my mind how anyone could detest Pink Floyd. To each their own and all that I guess.
It's easy to see the world in black and white. Grey? I don't know what to do with grey.
This breaking down at who is the best at this and that is irrelevant to most people like me. It's the end product, and I really like Zeppelin. I like Pink Floyd. I love the Stones. The Who for me has always been OK. Not because I think they don't have talent, but because I don't like their songs as much.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(07-05-2023, 03:21 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Haha, just sitting here waiting for someone to include Roy Buchanan or Rory Gallagher into the discussion, or even Johnny Winter.
Not to turn this into a pissing match, but LZ is arguably one of the most-overrated bands that ever existed:
- Plant may had had a 4 octave range, but he never (or rarely) used it and just screamed and made, "sex noises," 1/3 of the time (not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's a waste of talent).
- Jones may be a great, "arranger," but big deal: he's a mediocre at best bassist and to bring up the Who again, Entiwistle could arrange circles around Jones, not to mention he is 10x the bassist and overall musician.
- Bonham is easily one of the biggest stamina drummers that ever lived, but A: many other guys basically have that stamina and B: his beats are not that intricate or difficult. I mean, you want to talk about stamina/keeping in time at a VERY brisk pace, Simon Phillips is a SESSION musician, FFS:
And nobody touches Neil Peart: he's truly at the very #1 spot of drummers all-time and HIS writing/arranging prowess was 2nd to none.
- Page, I feel, is the only true transcendent talent in the group, but only as a guitar player (which he is at the top of the game), as he is a passable song writer at best (and Plant as a lyricist isn't much better).
They are great, blues band that got super popular and that popularity never waned... and when you're that popular, people tend to not criticise/look at things subjectively When stacked up against their most-supreme peers of the time (Floyd, the Who), they come in 3rd. And if we want to include the prog rock bands, they come in behind half a dozen of them.
And I detest Pink Floyd lol. Save for Bike. That song is golden.
EDIT* and for the topic at hand, TS is another mediocre at best pop act, that got famous for her lame HS break up songs and now is doing the pop tart thing that dozens of other chicks did before her, rinse and repeat. As Matt Pinfield once said...
Applies to TS 100%... save for the song writing: she at least writes all her own songs.
(07-04-2023, 07:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: As a string plucker myself, i'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The brilliance of some players is how they take something simple and make it sound more complex and/or different than your average joe guitar player.
Shine on you crazy diamond is not complex by any standard. I could teach it to a moderate-level guitar player in pretty short order. But the atmoshpere and emotion that Gilmour creates is magical (in pretty much everything he does). Take any standard 1,4,5 chord progression with a couple minor scales and two people are going to make it sound completely different. Gilmour has always been about mood and he does it spectacularly.
I've never been a huge Who or Townshend fan but i like a good number of their songs. I don't necessarily agree with Truck that he's on another level, per se--but i give him tons of credit for deviating from the boring norm and composing things in a unique way and for reaching out for something different and i don't fret (pun intended) someone for liking a particular player, for whatever the reason is. Music is meant to move and it moves different people different ways.
Since we're talking about effects, don't even get me started on Kirk Hammett and his wah pedal...
Tickets were reselling for so much because Cincy was her only concert in the entire REGION. Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana didn't get any other concerts. The two in Cincy were it. Supply and demand.
(07-04-2023, 04:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: Definitely, but Edge as least has chord/position changes in his parts. Most of Gilmour's performance in "Give Blood" is sitting in a single position and repeating the same simple pattern ad nauseam with no deviation. And his solo is just a slow walk up of a major scale. I mean, that's just a classic example of a guy using effects as a crutch instead of a tool.
I like most of Pink Floyd's catalogue and I have a lot of respect for Gilmour as an artist, but it's ridiculous to me that some have to take things a step further and try to categorize him as some kind of guitar god. He's by no means Kurt Cobain bad on the instrument, but his playing certainly doesn't deserve placement on a pedestal, either.
Eh, have to disagree with some of what you say here Whatever. Gilmour is so clean and that is what makes his playing so special.
I understand he isn't a speedy guitarist and the slow walk up of a major scale reference, but that is just his style. Nothing wrong with it.
I still think he is the best at what he does and makes me close my eyes and just listen unlike any other guitarist.
David can make a guitar speak without the tube like Frampton and others use. Dude is special at what he does IMO.
(07-05-2023, 11:07 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Ever listen to Magic Sam?
Hell yes! Love his music. West Side Soul is a seminal work. Such a shame he died so young. Freddie King is my favorite though. Have you seen the footage of Sam shredding on Earl's guitar from a concert in Germany? (I think it was in Germany)
I'm not a "guitar snob" so I gotta say Jimi Hendrix is the best I've heard in my lifetime. We used to listen to his Star Spangled Banner in the lockerroom before we took the mat.
Have them playing in your ear 24/7 as you are discovering and refining your music tastes and you'll get sick of them just like I did
Stuff that is overplayed I really am not a fan of, at all.
I hear you, I don't listen to much of the overplayed stuff either.... except for Time. That might be my favorite song ever. I like listening to Animals and Meddle quite a bit, Gilmour's solo stuff, and some of the deeper cuts off the more popular albums.
I've listened to a lot of Pink Floyd in my time too, but I still really dig them.
(07-05-2023, 02:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, have to disagree with some of what you say here Whatever. Gilmour is so clean and that is what makes his playing so special.
I understand he isn't a speedy guitarist and the slow walk up of a major scale reference, but that is just his style. Nothing wrong with it.
I still think he is the best at what he does and makes me close my eyes and just listen unlike any other guitarist.
David can make a guitar speak without the tube like Frampton and others use. Dude is special at what he does IMO.
I expect him to play really clean when most of his parts are relatively simple and when you look into his rig, he has noise suppression in almost every link of his signal chain.
His parts fit well in in Pink Floyd 's songs and style, but so did Johnny Ramone's in The Ramones and I wouldn't hold him way up there, either(and I like a lot of The Ramones stuff).
A guy doesn't necessarily have to be ultra fast to be great, IMO. I can appreciate a lot of different attributes, from Bob Weir's insane knowledge of chord inversions, to the crazy stretches Andy Summers pulls off, to the bends Stevie Ray Vaughan could do while using very heavy gauge strings. But playing routine parts cleanly with virtually every noise cancelling trick in the book isn't one of them.
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