This is the Worst Free Agency I've Ever Seen since Burrow was Drafted.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2023, 05:15 PM)PDub80 Wrote: We shall see!

Yes we shall! 

I wouldn't be so adamant about bringing DJ Reader back if we had a proven run stopper behind him. We have some okay ones in BJ 
Hill and Tupou but Tupou is also on the last year of his deal and is not near as good of a pass rusher as DJ or BJ.

[NotBigzo]

(08-06-2023, 08:23 AM)PDub80 Wrote: The only thing "SUS" here, kid, are your hot takes.

I think we deserve whomever Bigzo is because NotBigzo is struggling. You make a post that BEngals FA sucks... it turns out GREAT.

You say they can't extend the people they've got, but then they go extend people.

You have so many bad takes. Why are you publishing them in writing to document them?

Now Dax Hill didn't play much last year because the DC decided it would emotionally stunt him? WTF?! Every time you post I can't help but think that somewhere out there there's a coloring book not being colored.

When did I say they couldn't extend any of the people they've already extended? I said that it'd be dumb to keep both Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins; and that extending both linebackers could come at DJ Reader's expense, but that's about it.

Statement from Lou last season: 

"So the fact that Dax (Hill) and Cam's (Taylor-Britt) coming back off the injury, the fact that they have time to not get beat in a game and lose some confidence. Because soon as you put those guys out there too fast and those guys get rattled, it's a problem, it's a problem. Nobody sees the three technique get out of his gap and give up a B-gap run. Nobody sees the linebackers shed the block the wrong way. Everybody in the stadium, eighty thousand, and fifteen million people (on TV) and everybody thinks they know that the corner gave up the play or the safety took the wrong angle. So, confidence for those guys is huge and when you have a tight-knit group like we have, there's absolutely no reason to screw up that chemistry."

[PDub80]

(08-06-2023, 07:18 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: When did I say they couldn't extend any of the people they've already extended? I said that it'd be dumb to keep both Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins; and that extending both linebackers could come at DJ Reader's expense, but that's about it.

Statement from Lou last season: 

"So the fact that Dax (Hill) and Cam's (Taylor-Britt) coming back off the injury, the fact that they have time to not get beat in a game and lose some confidence. Because soon as you put those guys out there too fast and those guys get rattled, it's a problem, it's a problem. Nobody sees the three technique get out of his gap and give up a B-gap run. Nobody sees the linebackers shed the block the wrong way. Everybody in the stadium, eighty thousand, and fifteen million people (on TV) and everybody thinks they know that the corner gave up the play or the safety took the wrong angle. So, confidence for those guys is huge and when you have a tight-knit group like we have, there's absolutely no reason to screw up that chemistry."

Higgins (24) & Chase (23) in the prime of their careers >>> DJ Reader going onto his 3rd contract and 30 years old in the 2024 season.  This isn't even a debate as far as far as who you give contracts to. Both LBs are in their prime and, quite frankly, probably cost close to as much as 1 DJ reader extension. It makes sense to allocate the money that way.

The Bengals will keep BOTH Chase & Higgins. This has been a PERFECT offseason for the Bengals. Katie & Duke's Mona Lisa will be keeping this roster's young stars together and it will get done.

[basballguy]

(08-04-2023, 09:17 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The roster was such dog _____ when Zac took over. Just not their performance but the culture and character. And certainly not the whole roster. I remember discussing it with a still an assistant coach in the AFC who said it was just awful. The whole organization has done so well.  It’s going to benefit us in that some teams may be interested in our reserves via trade because of injuries

I'm....befuddled....not at you, just in general.

I think it's crazy that we say both these things:

1) The culture was dog shit when ML took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.
2) The culture was dog shit when ZT took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.

Either ML was good for our culture or he wasn't lol.  

Again, just a general observation.  I have no idea what you thought about ML when he took over.  

[Stewy]

(08-08-2023, 07:12 PM)basballguy Wrote: I'm....befuddled....not at you, just in general.

I think it's crazy that we say both these things:

1) The culture was dog shit when ML took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.
2) The culture was dog shit when ZT took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.

Either ML was good for our culture or he wasn't lol.  

Again, just a general observation.  I have no idea what you thought about ML when he took over.  

Come on.  You know it's not that simple.  Change is good generally.  It gives people hope and keeps them on their toes.  Also, Marvin was a players coach, so that created a bond.

But things change over time.  Marvin was clearly tired.   It was clear to the fans, players and FO that the Marvin way, was never going to win a championship.  So his time had run its course and he should have moved on 4-5 years earlier.

You sound almost disingenuous in your analysis.  You know better.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-08-2023, 07:12 PM)basballguy Wrote: I'm....befuddled....not at you, just in general.

I think it's crazy that we say both these things:

1) The culture was dog shit when ML took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.
2) The culture was dog shit when ZT took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.

Either ML was good for our culture or he wasn't lol.  

Again, just a general observation.  I have no idea what you thought about ML when he took over.  

I think Marvin was a tremendous players coach. I wasn’t a fan then so I’m not the best there and limited.. But the team had aged and some of the top players coasting. There were some players that weren’t great workers. Zac changed the kind of player they drafted to players that loved to work. They set sights on team captains in FA and the draft. They really researched there character more. I understand Zac wanted the Scouting department to look more at their mannerisms and reactions to their coaches and teammates. I hear they double and triple checked with contacts that new them.

[PDub80]

(08-08-2023, 07:12 PM)basballguy Wrote: I'm....befuddled....not at you, just in general.

I think it's crazy that we say both these things:

1) The culture was dog shit when ML took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.
2) The culture was dog shit when ZT took over.  God bless him for changing the culture.

Either ML was good for our culture or he wasn't lol.  

Again, just a general observation.  I have no idea what you thought about ML when he took over.  

I get where you're coming from and this truly is a FASCINATING study of leadership, willingess to change, and commitment. Stunning, really.

I think ML changed the culture to be much better FOR THAT ERA of NFL football and compared to what had been going on for the previous 12 or so years in Cincinnati. Mike Brown did not understand the modern athlete and Marvin helped change that for sure.

Where Marvin failed was that he couldn't adapt or evolve from the culture he created - especially with Mike there as the bottlecap. He was a slave to his own machinations as far as how the roster was to be constructed and the players he was comfortable with. He loved verteran guys on 3rd, 4th deals. Guys in their 30s and past their prime. He trusted them and relied on them. ZT, stark contrast, trusts very specific 2nd year guys and his own guys he brings in via the draft.

And ZT drafts a completely different type of guy than Marvin, generally speaking. The FAs are completely different types of guys since Taylor came in.

That being said, it's no coincidence that this flow chart lead to this 180 degree move: Marvin was fired "not retained" > Mike Steps way into the back of the bus > Katie, Troy, & Duke take control of day to day > The aformentioned signed THEIR guy who pitched a vision that resonated with them > The entire team is behind the concept as a group.

To me, THAT is the flow chart and timeline that makes sense as to why Marvin's culture was changed. Marvin was handcuffed by Mike Brown, sure, but I think he also plotted with Mike on a lot of roster stuff, too. Mike gave marvin a ton of what he wanted. I think this group does with ZT, too, but are much much much more willing to listen to coach Taylor and have an actual long term plan.

I give INCREDIBLE thanks and credit to Taylor, Katie, Troy, Duke, etc. for creating what might be the best work environment & system in the entire league. Katie & Troy being given control by Mike was HUGE. 

[basballguy]

(08-08-2023, 07:54 PM)Stewy Wrote: Come on.  You know it's not that simple.  Change is good generally.  It gives people hope and keeps them on their toes.  Also, Marvin was a players coach, so that created a bond.

But things change over time.  Marvin was clearly tired.   It was clear to the fans, players and FO that the Marvin way, was never going to win a championship.  So his time had run its course and he should have moved on 4-5 years earlier.

You sound almost disingenuous in your analysis.  You know better.

It's hard to argue this without sounding like a hater so I'll say this.....in the moment, I thought ML was great for Bengals culture.  After several years of reflection (post ML), he was part of the problem.  He didn't change the culture, he was just a better coach than we were used to.  the Bengals were still seen as "that team" that nobody wanted to play for.  

I was a huge ZT hater early on but I sincerely think what ZT (and Bengals leadership) have done for the franchise is legit great for the culture.  ML was just a change of pace.  He should've been fired at the same time we dumped CP....which mostly echos your last statement.  

(08-08-2023, 07:57 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think Marvin was a tremendous players coach. I wasn’t a fan then so I’m not the best there and limited.. But the team had aged and some of the top players coasting. There were some players that weren’t great workers. Zac changed the kind of player they drafted to players that loved to work. They set sights on team captains in FA and the draft. They really researched there character more. I understand Zac wanted the Scouting department to look more at their mannerisms and reactions to their coaches and teammates. I hear they double and triple checked with contacts that new them.

Agree with everything here

(08-08-2023, 08:18 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I get where you're coming from and this truly is a FASCINATING study of leadership, willingess to change, and commitment. Stunning, really.

I think ML changed the culture to be much better FOR THAT ERA of NFL football and compared to what had been going on for the previous 12 or so years in Cincinnati. Mike Brown did not understand the modern athlete and Marvin helped change that for sure.

Where Marvin failed was that he couldn't adapt or evolve from the culture he created - especially with Mike there as the bottlecap. He was a slave to his own machinations as far as how the roster was to be constructed and the players he was comfortable with. He loved verteran guys on 3rd, 4th deals. Guys in their 30s and past their prime. He trusted them and relied on them. ZT, stark contrast, trusts very specific 2nd year guys and his own guys he brings in via the draft.

And ZT drafts a completely different type of guy than Marvin, generally speaking. The FAs are completely different types of guys since Taylor came in.

That being said, it's no coincidence that this flow chart lead to this 180 degree move: Marvin was fired "not retained" > Mike Steps way into the back of the bus > Katie, Troy, & Duke take control of day to day > The aformentioned signed THEIR guy who pitched a vision that resonated with them > The entire team is behind the concept as a group.

To me, THAT is the flow chart and timeline that makes sense as to why Marvin's culture was changed. Marvin was handcuffed by Mike Brown, sure, but I think he also plotted with Mike on a lot of roster stuff, too. Mike gave marvin a ton of what he wanted. I think this group does with ZT, too, but are much much much more willing to listen to coach Taylor and have an actual long term plan.

I give INCREDIBLE thanks and credit to Taylor, Katie, Troy, Duke, etc. for creating what might be the best work environment & system in the entire league. Katie & Troy being given control by Mike was HUGE. 

I do think I overlook the effect of Katie taking control of the team. I don't pretend to know what went on between ML and MB. I know they had a great relationship but I also remember how stubborn MB seemed to be.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-08-2023, 07:54 PM)Stewy Wrote: Come on.  You know it's not that simple.  Change is good generally.  It gives people hope and keeps them on their toes.  Also, Marvin was a players coach, so that created a bond.

But things change over time.  Marvin was clearly tired.   It was clear to the fans, players and FO that the Marvin way, was never going to win a championship.  So his time had run its course and he should have moved on 4-5 years earlier.

You sound almost disingenuous in your analysis.  You know better.

Exactly, it got stale around here, especially after the 2015 fiasco in the Playoffs against the scum of the earth.

This team is fresh and they are brothers. This is completely different than we have ever seen, at least me, as back when we were really 
good it was the 80's and there was no social media or ways to really get to know the team even close to now a days. This team fights for
the coaches, the fans and even the owners now that the Blackburn's have clearly turned this into a new organization.

Have to give tons of credit to Zac and the coaches and the FO and doing most all the right things. The Lombardi is close and most of us 
can all feel it. I never felt that in the Marv years, it was just hoping we could win a damn Playoff game and get that monkey off our back.

Newsflash, we have won 5 Playoff games, 3 on the road in 2 frickin' years under Zac and Lou and this FO. We never even won a road 
Playoff game before.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-09-2023, 02:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Exactly, it got stale around here, especially after the 2015 fiasco in the Playoffs against the scum of the earth.

This team is fresh and they are brothers. This is completely different than we have ever seen, at least me, as back when we were really 
good it was the 80's and there was no social media or ways to really get to know the team even close to now a days. This team fights for
the coaches, the fans and even the owners now that the Blackburn's have clearly turned this into a new organization.

Have to give tons of credit to Zac and the coaches and the FO and doing most all the right things. The Lombardi is close and most of us 
can all feel it. I never felt that in the Marv years, it was just hoping we could win a damn Playoff game and get that monkey off our back.

Newsflash, we have won 5 Playoff games, 3 on the road in 2 frickin' years under Zac and Lou and this FO. We never even won a road 
Playoff game before.

Just an interesting little nugget about those days. During training camp prior to the 88 season, Sam had defensive guys rooming with offensive guys, and black players with white players where they could. It was so the team could get to know EVERYONE on the team and not just guys on their side of the ball. I think that really gelled that team together in a big way. Fast forward to today, and Zac has instituted a very similar culture to that .

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2023, 11:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: Just an interesting little nugget about those days. During training camp prior to the 88 season, Sam had defensive guys rooming with offensive guys, and black players with white players where they could. It was so the team could get to know EVERYONE on the team and not just guys on their side of the ball. I think that really gelled that team together in a big way. Fast forward to today, and Zac has instituted a very similar culture to that .

Great to know, didn't know that about Sam but doesn't surprise me. Yeah, Zac has done some similar things to what Sam did which is 
awesome. You can tell how every single player has bought in to what is going on around here and when players like Logan Wilson say 
that they don't want to play for another HC, that is high praise. Lots thought Logan would of got a lot more money. But both the Pratt 
and Logan deals were good ones for the Bengals that allow us to still extend Burrow and hopefully Reader soon.

Love Tee, but we cannot pay him 25 mil per year. If he can take say around 20-21 we might be able to still make it all work.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-08-2023, 07:57 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think Marvin was a tremendous players coach. I wasn’t a fan then so I’m not the best there and limited.. But the team had aged and some of the top players coasting. There were some players that weren’t great workers. Zac changed the kind of player they drafted to players that loved to work. They set sights on team captains in FA and the draft. They really researched there character more. I understand Zac wanted the Scouting department to look more at their mannerisms and reactions to their coaches and teammates. I hear they double and triple checked with contacts that new them.

What are the odds a fan knows the practice habits of professional football players years before he jumped on the bandwagon ? I’d put it at slim to none. And Slim just left town as they say.

[grampahol]

It's been 5 months since this thread was started. The sky is definitely falling here.. Well at least it's raining a bit. Fortunately Chicken Little invested in an umbrella..

[Whatever]

This is the worst Free Agency thread I've ever seen since Burrow was drafted.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-11-2023, 03:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What are the odds a fan knows the practice habits of professional football players years before he jumped on the bandwagon ? I’d put it at slim to none. And Slim just left town as they say.

Don’t know what your implying but my statement absolutely correct.

[NotBigzo]

Dax makes one play on a floater and you guys think he's the next Charles Woodson.

preseason hype is in full swing,

[NotBigzo]

(08-11-2023, 03:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What are the odds a fan knows the practice habits of professional football players years before he jumped on the bandwagon ? I’d put it at slim to none. And Slim just left town as they say.

Marvin definately let a lot of shit slide with a certain set of players.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-11-2023, 08:20 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Don’t know what your implying but my statement absolutely correct.

Name another team from 2018 or earlier that you didn’t follow, weren’t a fan of, admittedly aren’t a good source of information about the head coach, but know the players weren’t great workers . . . from any league.

Your statement is just more unsourced, unverifiable, vague conjecture you try to pass off as truth.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-12-2023, 12:36 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Name another team from 2018 or earlier that you didn’t follow, weren’t a fan of, admittedly aren’t a good source of information about the head coach, but know the players weren’t great workers . . . from any league.

Your statement is just more unsourced, unverifiable, vague conjecture you try to pass off as truth.

LMAO you are so funny and have no idea.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-12-2023, 12:36 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Name another team from 2018 or earlier that you didn’t follow, weren’t a fan of, admittedly aren’t a good source of information about the head coach, but know the players weren’t great workers . . . from any league.

Your statement is just more unsourced, unverifiable, vague conjecture you try to pass off as truth.

LMAO