This is the Worst Free Agency I've Ever Seen since Burrow was Drafted.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-15-2023, 11:00 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Didn't Coughlin pass due to not getting the control of the roster decisions he wanted?

(08-15-2023, 12:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I believe that is correct.

From what i recall, Coughlin was Mike's choice, and Marvin was Katie's. Either way, an offer was never made to Coughlin.

[Frank Booth]

(08-15-2023, 03:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: From what i recall, Coughlin was Mike's choice, and Marvin was Katie's. Either way, an offer was never made to Coughlin.

if that's true, that's a huge black mark on her "glowing" reputation

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-15-2023, 04:14 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: if that's true, that's a huge black mark on her "glowing" reputation

Why? the only mark against her would be for keeping Marvin for too long, but we don't know if that was Mike or her that did that.

[Frank Booth]

(08-15-2023, 04:17 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why? the only mark against her would be for keeping Marvin for too long, but we don't know if that was Mike or her that did that.

IF it's true that she wanted Marvin, and Mike wanted Coughlin, yes, that's a big negative on her reputation. Coughlin is a much much much better coach than Lewis. This isnt even up for debate. Maybe Bengals win a super bowl with Palmer if Coughlin is the coach

[*ochocincos*]

(08-15-2023, 05:08 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: IF it's true that she wanted Marvin, and Mike wanted Coughlin, yes, that's a big negative on her reputation. Coughlin is a much much much better coach than Lewis. This isnt even up for debate. Maybe Bengals win a super bowl with Palmer if Coughlin is the coach

I dunno if I'd say "big" negative.

Looking at their HC careers, Marvin's career win percentage was .518, Coughlin's was .531.
The only real difference is the Super Bowl wins, one of which he inherited a lot of quality players like Strahan, Shockey, Umenyiora.
Coughlin actually had a lot of double-digit loss seasons.
Coughlin got his franchise QB in Eli just like Marvin got his in Palmer.
I think you could speculate would Marvin's tenure have been better had Palmer not had his string of injuries in the mid-late 2000's and ultimately force a trade out of CIN, forcing Marvin to have to find a new franchise QB? And I believe it was ownership that Palmer stated why he wanted out, not because of Marvin.

I'm not trying to take away what Coughlin accomplished, just trying to say Marvin wasn't as bad as some people make/made him out to be.
Also, I don't think Coughlin would have been able to have as much freedom in decision-making, thus likely not having as much of an impact in CIN like he did in NYG. Unless there's the assumption Mike Brown would have given Coughlin more than he did Marvin because Coughlin was who Mike wanted.

[Frank Booth]

(08-15-2023, 06:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I dunno if I'd say "big" negative.

Looking at their HC careers, Marvin's career win percentage was .518, Coughlin's was .531.
The only real difference is the Super Bowl wins, one of which he inherited a lot of quality players like Strahan, Shockey, Umenyiora.
Coughlin actually had a lot of double-digit loss seasons.
Coughlin got his franchise QB in Eli just like Marvin got his in Palmer.
I think you could speculate would Marvin's tenure have been better had Palmer not had his string of injuries in the mid-late 2000's and ultimately force a trade out of CIN, forcing Marvin to have to find a new franchise QB? And I believe it was ownership that Palmer stated why he wanted out, not because of Marvin.

I'm not trying to take away what Coughlin accomplished, just trying to say Marvin wasn't as bad as some people make/made him out to be.
Also, I don't think Coughlin would have been able to have as much freedom in decision-making, thus likely not having as much of an impact in CIN like he did in NYG. Unless there's the assumption Mike Brown would have given Coughlin more than he did Marvin because Coughlin was who Mike wanted.

Coughlin made the jags into one of the best teams in the entire league when he was there, including an afc championship appearance. And then you all know what he did with NYG

Lewis isnt bad per se, but Coughlin is leaps and bounds better than Lewis. Yes, leaps and bounds. Playoffs matter

[SunsetBengal]

(08-15-2023, 04:14 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: if that's true, that's a huge black mark on her "glowing" reputation

Well, if her first coaching choice was Marvin Lewis and he took the team from the "dark ages" into being relative again, it wasn't that bad of a pick, seeing she was new in the coach picking game.  Now that Coach Zac has had a few years to get affairs in order, he seems to be doing very well.  Why are you trying to throw cold water on Katie Blackburn's legacy as leader of the franchise?

[Frank Booth]

(08-15-2023, 09:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, if her first coaching choice was Marvin Lewis and he took the team from the "dark ages" into being relative again, it wasn't that bad of a pick, seeing she was new in the coach picking game.  Now that Coach Zac has had a few years to get affairs in order, he seems to be doing very well.  Why are you trying to throw cold water on Katie Blackburn's legacy as leader of the franchise?

uh, im not? I know all of you worship her, but Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin is a legendarily bad decision

if that story is true

[SunsetBengal]

(08-15-2023, 09:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: uh, im not? I know all of you worship her, but Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin is a legendarily bad decision

if that story is true

Marvin Lewis was one of the hottest coaching prospects in the game at that time.  Some legendary coordinators go onto become fantastic and successful head coaches, it's not Katie's fault that Marvin Lewis was better as a coordinator than as a big-picture guy in the head coaching role.  He had some very talented rosters, rosters that might have been good enough to win the superbowl in different situations.  I don't think of Marvin Lewis as a poor coach, just one that tried to overextend himself.

[Frank Booth]

(08-15-2023, 09:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Marvin Lewis was one of the hottest coaching prospects in the game at that time.  Some legendary coordinators go onto become fantastic and successful head coaches, it's not Katie's fault that Marvin Lewis was better as a coordinator than as a big-picture guy in the head coaching role.  He had some very talented rosters, rosters that might have been good enough to win the superbowl in different situations.  I don't think of Marvin Lewis as a poor coach, just one that tried to overextend himself.

you dont have to defend her this hard lol

if the owner Mike Brown wanted Coughlin, but his daughter was dead set on Marvin, and she convinced Mike to hire Marvin instead of Coughlin, that's big time bad misjudgment on her part. Imagine Coughlin coaching those Palmer/Ochocinco teams instead of Marvin. I already know there would have been big playoff runs.

Coughlin was a hot commodity too btw. Jags were one of the best teams in the league under Coughlin. The Jags. 

[SunsetBengal]

(08-15-2023, 09:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: you dont have to defend her this hard lol

if the owner Mike Brown wanted Coughlin, but his daughter was dead set on Marvin, and she convinced Mike to hire Marvin instead of Coughlin, that's big time bad misjudgment on her part. Imagine Coughlin coaching those Palmer/Ochocinco teams instead of Marvin. I already know there would have been big playoff runs.

Coughlin was a hot commodity too btw. Jags were one of the best teams in the league under Coughlin. The Jags. 

Really?  How many Superbowl trophies did the Jags win in the Coughlin dynasty?

[Frank Booth]

(08-15-2023, 09:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  How many Superbowl trophies did the Jags win in the Coughlin dynasty?

lmao the 49ers were one of the best teams in the league under Harbaugh's term, no?

there's no need to cope. Hiring Marv over Coughlin was terrible. Katie isnt gonna kiss you 

[NotBigzo]

(08-15-2023, 09:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  How many Superbowl trophies did the Jags win in the Coughlin dynasty?

None, they beat the ever living  **** out of a team that clapped us constantly...

In the postseason....


@ their house....

On primtime. 

Betseen that and Coughlin's 2 super bowls over the surest thing of a HOF QB and coach that we'll ever see, that' s more of an indicator, at least to me, that Lewis couldn't hold Coughlin's jock strap.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-15-2023, 09:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: you dont have to defend her this hard lol

if the owner Mike Brown wanted Coughlin, but his daughter was dead set on Marvin, and she convinced Mike to hire Marvin instead of Coughlin, that's big time bad misjudgment on her part. Imagine Coughlin coaching those Palmer/Ochocinco teams instead of Marvin. I already know there would have been big playoff runs.

Coughlin was a hot commodity too btw. Jags were one of the best teams in the league under Coughlin. The Jags. 

.....but that wasn't the case. Marvin may have been her choice (that's not set in stone either), but he was the choice because Coughlin turned down the offer.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1486759.html

"One potential sticking point is that, unlike his Jacksonville job description, Coughlin would not have total control of the Bengals' football operation. Coughlin essentially functioned as his own general manager while with the Jaguars, but the Bengals do not have a GM and Brown has said he will not vest total power in one man.

It is believed, however, the Bengals are prepared to provide their new head coach more power than any of his predecessors.

Asked if the lack of a general manager's title might affect how he views the Cincinnati opening, Coughlin said: "I'd have to think about that for a while.""

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-15-2023, 03:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: From what i recall, Coughlin was Mike's choice, and Marvin was Katie's. Either way, an offer was never made to Coughlin.

Coughlin was interviewed, I do know that. He withdrew his name from what I recall. He wanted be the HC and GM. Mike wasn't having that.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-15-2023, 12:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt to Sooner here, as it does sound like he talks with someone who he trusts on the inside. That person may just share their opinion and/or it might not actually end up coming to fruition, but that doesn't mean Sooner is just making up information.
Now, is this insider that Sooner knows the most reliable source? Maybe not (anymore) 

I typically give people the benefit of the doubt’s until proven otherwise. He has proven otherwise. In addition to everything I quoted, he is horribly wrong when it comes to free agency and draft predictions. He has no inside sources for personnel decisions. A broken clock is correct more often than him.


He claims Mike Brown is the tie breaker to personnel decisions. He also claims Zac Taylor is the biggest change in the culture. As a long time Bengals fan, do you think Mike Brown suddenly changed his approach as a GM after three decades? Or has there been a transition in leadership from Mike to Katie over the past few years that resulted in rapid change?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-15-2023, 01:51 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: All true. I can assure there’s a lot of other places to spend time than and make up stuff. But I’m glad somebody has all the time to try to discredit me. Have at it but you’ll never get that time back in your life.

Assure me? You’re going to remove all doubt? LMAO. That will happen when you provide some actual proof for one thing. Instead of unsourced hearsay that players are just collecting pay checks under both Marvin Lewis and Zac Taylor without a shred of evidence.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-15-2023, 06:54 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Coughlin made the jags into one of the best teams in the entire league when he was there, including an afc championship appearance. And then you all know what he did with NYG

Lewis isnt bad per se, but Coughlin is leaps and bounds better than Lewis. Yes, leaps and bounds. Playoffs matter

He took one of the two expansion teams that was given a solid roster to begin with. Carolina made the super bowl during that time as well.
What he did with the Giants can't be factored into the decision that was made at that time.

Need i remind people that he was not the HC of Jax those few years prior to being interviewed by the Bengals for the HC position. HC was Doug Marrone.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/12/18/jaguars-top-executive-tom-coughlin-fired/2053894007/

Jaguars owner Shad Khan fired Tom Coughlin on Wednesday night, two days after the NFL Players Association sent a letter to the league’s players that revealed over 25 percent of the grievances filed by players have been against the Jaguars.

(08-15-2023, 10:11 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: .....but that wasn't the case. Marvin may have been her choice (that's not set in stone either), but he was the choice because Coughlin turned down the offer.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1486759.html

"One potential sticking point is that, unlike his Jacksonville job description, Coughlin would not have total control of the Bengals' football operation. Coughlin essentially functioned as his own general manager while with the Jaguars, but the Bengals do not have a GM and Brown has said he will not vest total power in one man.

It is believed, however, the Bengals are prepared to provide their new head coach more power than any of his predecessors.

Asked if the lack of a general manager's title might affect how he views the Cincinnati opening, Coughlin said: "I'd have to think about that for a while.""

(08-15-2023, 10:49 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Coughlin was interviewed, I do know that. He withdrew his name from what I recall. He wanted be the HC and GM. Mike wasn't having that.

Well no idea if what you remember is right or wrong vs what i remember. so we'll just leave it at that.

But the Bengals were right in having some reservations about giving him control but not the type we would likely think. If you see the first half of the post you'll see that TC was not a very player friendly person. In fact any team would have been a little worried about giving him too much control. I don't think the Giants gave him that type of control either did they?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-16-2023, 01:17 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: He took one of the two expansion teams that was given a solid roster to begin with. Carolina made the super bowl during that time as well.
What he did with the Giants can't be factored into the decision that was made at that time.

Need i remind people that he was not the HC of Jax those few years prior to being interviewed by the Bengals for the HC position. HC was Doug Marrone.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/12/18/jaguars-top-executive-tom-coughlin-fired/2053894007/

Jaguars owner Shad Khan fired Tom Coughlin on Wednesday night, two days after the NFL Players Association sent a letter to the league’s players that revealed over 25 percent of the grievances filed by players have been against the Jaguars.



Well no idea if what you remember is right or wrong vs what i remember. so we'll just leave it at that.

But the Bengals were right in having some reservations about giving him control but not the type we would likely think. If you see the first half of the post you'll see that TC was not a very player friendly person. In fact any team would have been a little worried about giving him too much control. I don't think the Giants gave him that type of control either did they?

I think I remember players complaining he fined them for not being 10 minutes early for meetings?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-15-2023, 11:49 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I typically give people the benefit of the doubt’s until proven otherwise. He has proven otherwise. In addition to everything I quoted, he is horribly wrong when it comes to free agency and draft predictions. He has no inside sources for personnel decisions. A broken clock is correct more often than him.


He claims Mike Brown is the tie breaker to personnel decisions. He also claims Zac Taylor is the biggest change in the culture. As a long time Bengals fan, do you think Mike Brown suddenly changed his approach as a GM after three decades? Or has there been a transition in leadership from Mike to Katie over the past few years that resulted in rapid change?

If there is a split decision on a player, then why can't Mike be the tie breaker still? That makes sense to me, if they can't agree then Mike listens to both sides and makes his choice. His fracking team.

To the second part? Why can't it be both? 
Zac wants a certain type of player and they Tobin drafts what he's looking for and goes after FA's as well, Katie does is more on the back end, contract negotiations, maintaining the Salary cap and so on. Katie lets the Coach/GM do their thing and she does hers and the end result is everyone appears much more in sync now than it was during MB's days of running the franchise. And now that we are winning as well, the culture has really shifted to being a place where players want to come to vs getting that last contract before riding off into the sunset.