Early Myles Murphy Panic

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-17-2023, 10:35 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Depth chart for the Falcons game just released. He's 3rd behind Hubbard and Sample, which seems about right.

Let's hope he flashes.

Those depth charts don't mean squat. It is basically seniority. 

[depthchart]

(08-17-2023, 02:39 PM)Wyche Wrote: Right. What I saw that I did like was he was always trailing on plays, ones across the field from him a few times. He's got the hustle part for sure. He just needs some tools in the toolbox.

He also has good speed with a 4.53 forty time.

Many sacks come later on in a play after a defensive lineman has been held up for a second or two by an Offensive Lineman.

Murphy should have the speed to make plays.

[Nepa]

Two years ago, during training camp and preseason games, there was major concern among some Bengals fans and major media sports commentators that Ja'Marr Chase couldn't catch an NFL football. I'm sure everyone remembers that. You know, the lack of stripes on the ball, the size, etc. It was drops, drops, drops -- which they felt were going to continue into the regular season. Some were calling him a bust as an early first round pick. One brilliant soul on this board said he didn't even deserve to make the 53. (Based on this panic, Chase lasted pretty far down on some fantasy drafts. My son didn't believe the hype and was able to get him for a steal in his fantasy drafts.)

I'm going to give Zero (0) credibility to Myles Murphy being a bust for a first round pick based on practice and pre-season games.

[casear2727]

(08-17-2023, 09:54 AM)jj22 Wrote: We didn't have a shot at Pitt's, but Nolan Smith we did if we wanted pass rusher, and he is shining this camp with the Eagles. 

Not sure why so many Bengals fans thought Nolan Smith was an option?

He is pigeon holed as a 3-4 OLB.  We run a 4-3 that requires big ends.  Smith is a minimum 30 pounds lighter than our Edge guys.  

I can also say that as good as he was at Georgia, many expected him to be much more.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-17-2023, 03:17 PM)Nepa Wrote: Two years ago, during training camp and preseason games, there was major concern among some Bengals fans and major media sports commentators that Ja'Marr Chase couldn't catch an NFL football. I'm sure everyone remembers that. You know, the lack of stripes on the ball, the size, etc.  It was drops, drops, drops -- which they felt were going to continue into the regular season. Some were calling him a bust as an early first round pick. One brilliant soul on this board said he didn't even deserve to make the 53. (Based on this panic, Chase lasted pretty far down on some fantasy drafts. My son didn't believe the hype and was able to get him for a steal in his fantasy drafts.)

I'm going to give Zero (0) credibility to Myles Murphy being a bust for a first round pick based on practice and pre-season games.

Chase is great and will rightfully get paid huge amounts of money as a top WR, but it is worth noting that those drops have never gone away.

He had 11 drops in 12 games last year, which according to some sources places him as the 3rd most drops in the NFL despite missing 5 games. 

He's had an 8.6% drop rate and an 8.2% drop rate in his NFL career, and it's not like he has some bum inaccurate QB with poor placement throwing him the ball. It's probably the one thing keeping him from being an All-Pro WR. Justin Jefferson has 13 drops in his 3 year career, Davante Adams has 11 drops over his last 3 years combined. The gap between Jefferson and Chase in drop rate is almost as much as the gap between Chase and John Ross.

[jj22]

(08-17-2023, 03:27 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Not sure why so many Bengals fans thought Nolan Smith was an option?

He is pigeon holed as a 3-4 OLB.  We run a 4-3 that requires big ends.  Smith is a minimum 30 pounds lighter than our Edge guys.  

I can also say that as good as he was at Georgia, many expected him to be much more.

I'm not sure we run a traditional 4-3. Even Murphy was standing up in the preseason, and doing a lot of dropping in the training camp video's. 

[NotBigzo]

(08-17-2023, 09:27 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You guys and your "run stopping" lol

Look, I love run defense as the next guy...but there's just not a ton of value there taking a guy in the first round because of his "run defense". This defense is SORELY lacking pressure off the edge who's name is not Hendrickson. Murphy was taken to be an edge rusher and sack the quarterback, not be a "run defender" (although he is expected to do that too).

Pass rusher is something that translates pretty quickly to the NFL - I'd say it's a LITTLE concerning he isn't flashing much a pass rusher.

GF is a cowboys fan and says Micah Parsons was showing signs of greatness immediately. 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think we know so little about Murphy right now that any stance is a choice, and none of them are inherently "rational" or even "evidence-based". If you're firm that he's going to be good, you have no way of knowing that. If you're already hearing alarm bells that he's a bust, you are not justified.

We're one preseason game in.

[casear2727]

(08-17-2023, 03:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not sure we run a traditional 4-3. Even Murphy was standing up in the preseason, and doing a lot of dropping in the training camp video's. 

We actually run a 4-2 nickel as our base.  Regardless, we do not have rushing OLBs.  We have a traditional 4 man front, Edges standing or hand in the dirt, they still must big enough to hold the edge thus why our smallest guy Ossai still weighs 263.  Trey, Murphy and Sample all top 270.  

Nolan is a fit for the Eagles, Steelers, Cowboys. 

[casear2727]

(08-17-2023, 04:01 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: GF is a cowboys fan and says Micah Parsons was showing signs of greatness immediately. 

Since you are dating Mel Kiper's daughter I guess there should be no more discussion?  

Tell your GF that there is a big difference between drafting at 12 versus 28.  Micah was drafted before every other defensive player not named Horn/Surtain, your correlation does not exist.

[*Synric*]

Yes Myles Murphy only has a couple pass rush moves but so does Tyree Wilson who went top 10 this year. Travon Walker went #1 overall in 2022 he is a very comparable prospect to Murphy traits/technique wise. Murphy is lucky he's in a great DL room and not thrown right into the fire. If he puts in the work he has the talent to be a successful NFL edge defender.

[Frank Booth]

(08-17-2023, 06:33 PM)Synric Wrote: Yes Myles Murphy only has a couple pass rush moves but so does Tyree Wilson who went top 10 this year. Travon Walker went #1 overall in 2022 he is a very comparable prospect to Murphy traits/technique wise. Murphy is lucky he's in a great DL room and not thrown right into the fire. If he puts in the work he has the talent to be a successful NFL edge defender.

Ossai will be legit this year, and hopefully Zach Carter takes the next step

they just need Murphy to be a solid rotational piece for this season

[SunsetBengal]

One preseason game is not call for alarm. I'm at least willing to give him the developmental year to adapt to the pro game.

[Bengal Dude]

I was definitely meh on the Murphy pick. One of the things that kept popping up on his pre draft process that bothered me was every year at Clemson he was tabbed as a "will his pass rush develop" guy. 

Now we have a deep DE room, so he has time to develop and we have a good DL coach in Hobby. So, perhaps Murphy will develop and become a good player, but I could also see him leaving after his rookie deal.

[NotBigzo]

(08-17-2023, 06:30 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Since you are dating Mel Kiper's daughter I guess there should be no more discussion?  

Tell your GF that there is a big difference between drafting at 12 versus 28.  Micah was drafted before every other defensive player not named Horn/Surtain, your correlation does not exist.

Huh? 

My reply was supporting the point that was raised by the person I quoted: That pass rushing prowess tends to show itself early in a player's career. Micah Parsons' showing itself very early is an example of that.

Your infatuation with me is flattering, but I don't swing that way.

[Joelist]

I'm sure Hobby and players like Hendrickson are working with Murphy on his weak areas (lack of pass rush moves and poor technique getting off of blocks).

[Hammerstripes]

(08-17-2023, 03:27 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Not sure why so many Bengals fans thought Nolan Smith was an option?

He is pigeon holed as a 3-4 OLB.  We run a 4-3 that requires big ends.  Smith is a minimum 30 pounds lighter than our Edge guys.  

I can also say that as good as he was at Georgia, many expected him to be much more.

Nobody runs a 3-4 or 4-3 base defense anymore.  It's all nickel and dime.  Nolan Smith would have added a different dimension to this team, but he is not a good fit for what we do.  He'd be great on 3rd down, but that's about it.

[007BengalsFan]

Are there many examples of a DE that wasnt a good pass rusher against college competition becoming a good pass rusher against NFL competition? Murphy seems like a project.

[casear2727]

(08-18-2023, 04:27 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Nobody runs a 3-4 or 4-3 base defense anymore.  It's all nickel and dime.  Nolan Smith would have added a different dimension to this team, but he is not a good fit for what we do.  He'd be great on 3rd down, but that's about it.

They kinda do.  The nickel simply replaces the 3rd LB with a NCB.  If we didnt have Hilton, would ADG play more?

Eagles run 3 DTs as a base with smaller rushers that also have LB responsibilities.

We run 3 DTs in goal line and short yardage.

I do agree he would be a blitz only guy for us, but there is a reason we never have 230 pound DE's, the 4 man front requires bigger guys, thus we have no one under 263. 

I get it that many are infatuated with a player like him, but the guy is the size of ADG.  Also, according to many of us that watched a lot of UGA football, he never really reached his potential. I was rooting hard for him vs the Browns though....

[casear2727]

(08-18-2023, 02:00 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Huh? 

My reply was supporting the point that was raised by the person I quoted: That pass rushing prowess tends to show itself early in a player's career. Micah Parsons' showing itself very early is an example of that.

Your infatuation with me is flattering, but I don't swing that way.

Comparing apples to oranges, IMHO.  There is a reason Micah went Top 12, definitely could have gone higher whereas Murphy dropped substantially.  

Also Micah rushing from a LB spot is different from a 4-3 DE.

Also, we knew Murphy wasnt a great pass rusher his last year in college.  I wasnt thrilled with the pick, but using Micah as a comparison is silly.

Also, I dont swing your way either, but feel free to post a pic of the GF and I'll let you know my intentions with a chick that knows ball.