How Is Jonah Doing at RT?

[Frank Booth]

(08-21-2023, 09:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: When was the last time the Bengals had two actually good, reliable OTs?
Probably not since 2006 with Whit and Willie, right?

I'd rather pay OL than almost any other position besides QB.

There was a 2 year stretch where Andre Smith was good and reliable

[007BengalsFan]

(08-21-2023, 06:51 AM)Wyche Wrote: Personally, I think it has more to do with his knees being healthy right now than anything. In other words, you're seeing 2021 Jonah and not 2022 Jonah with knee issues.

Even in 2021 he still gave up 8 sacks which put him at #6 in sacks allowed.

[Bengalbug]

(08-21-2023, 09:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: When was the last time the Bengals had two actually good, reliable OTs?
Probably not since 2006 with Whit and Willie, right?

I'd rather pay OL than almost any other position besides QB.

Whit was primarily suited to be LG his first few years in the league, but you are close. Levi Jones was our LT, but injuries plagued him until his departure in 2008, playing in only 31 games his final 3 years.

[007BengalsFan]

(08-21-2023, 04:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Whit was primarily suited to be LG his first few years in the league, but you are close. Levi Jones was our LT, but injuries plagued him until his departure in 2008, playing in only 31 games his final 3 years.

I did some research and I posted this back in May:  http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-2000-2022-Bengals-offensive-line-sacks

The last time the Bengals had a top 10 offensive line in sacks allowed was back in 2015 with Whitworth and Andre Smith at the tackle positions.  They were top 10 4 different years with Whitworth and Smith - 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015.  The Bengals had a top 10 line in 2009 and 2010 with Whitworth at LT and Dennis Roland at RT.  They were #2 in sacks allowed in 2007 with Whitworth at left guard with Levi Jones at left tackle and Stacy Andrews at right tackle. 

The one thing that sticks out is Whitworth was a part of seven top 10 lines.  Since Whitworth left, the Bengals have not had a top 10 offensive line in sacks allowed.  The Bengals did have some top 10 lines before Whitworth in 2004 and 2005 with Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Bobbie Williams and Willie Anderson

[*ochocincos*]

(08-21-2023, 04:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Whit was primarily suited to be LG his first few years in the league, but you are close. Levi Jones was our LT, but injuries plagued him until his departure in 2008, playing in only 31 games his final 3 years.

Whitworth was the primary LT in 2006, which is why I called out 2006 specifically.

As Frank called out though, Andre Smith was solid and reliable for a couple years at RT to go along with Whit at LT.

Regardless, it's been quite a long time since the Bengals had two good OTs.

[007BengalsFan]

(08-21-2023, 08:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Whitworth was the primary LT in 2006, which is why I called out 2006 specifically.

This is true.  Whitworth was the primary LT in 2006 starting 12 games his rookie year.  In 2007 and 2008 he switched to LG after Steinbech bolted for Cleveland while Jones started at LT.  In 2009 Whitworth moved back to LT after Jones was released.

[Bengalbug]

(08-21-2023, 08:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: This is true.  Whitworth was the primary LT in 2006 starting 12 games his rookie year.  In 2007 and 2008 he switched to LG after Steinbech bolted for Cleveland while Jones started at LT.  In 2009 Whitworth moved back to LT after Jones was released.

Whit was the primary LT due to an injury. At any rate..

[*psychdoctor*]

It is really hard to tell in Preseason. He is far far better than Carman, but Collins hopefully returns if Jonah struggles or gets injured. They are so thin at OL.

[sandwedge]

(08-21-2023, 04:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Whit was primarily suited to be LG his first few years in the league, but you are close. Levi Jones was our LT, but injuries plagued him until his departure in 2008, playing in only 31 games his final 3 years.

Levi Jones, one of my favorite draft picks. Loved the Mel Kiper meltdown!

[Sled21]

(08-21-2023, 05:29 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I did some research and I posted this back in May:  http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-2000-2022-Bengals-offensive-line-sacks

The last time the Bengals had a top 10 offensive line in sacks allowed was back in 2015 with Whitworth and Andre Smith at the tackle positions.  They were top 10 4 different years with Whitworth and Smith - 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015.  The Bengals had a top 10 line in 2009 and 2010 with Whitworth at LT and Dennis Roland at RT.  They were #2 in sacks allowed in 2007 with Whitworth at left guard with Levi Jones at left tackle and Stacy Andrews at right tackle. 

The one thing that sticks out is Whitworth was a part of seven top 10 lines.  Since Whitworth left, the Bengals have not had a top 10 offensive line in sacks allowed.  The Bengals did have some top 10 lines before Whitworth in 2004 and 2005 with Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Bobbie Williams and Willie Anderson

This team will most likely never be in the top 10 in sacks allowed as long as Burrow is QB. Joe is a play extender, and that leads to sacks. And, as he said, he doesn't care about 3rd down sacks because they're basically meaningless unless you are in field goal range.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-21-2023, 10:30 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: There was a 2 year stretch where Andre Smith was good and reliable

5 year stretch

(08-22-2023, 12:32 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Whit was the primary LT due to an injury. At any rate..

Correct, but then the decision to put him at LG, "to get the best 5," didn't really do him any favours, as he wasn't a world beater at G.

[SladeX]

(08-19-2023, 08:54 PM)Housh Wrote: Jonah won’t take that Collins deal so i think the idea is to pray Collins is good in 2024.

I pray every day, but a prayer is not a plan!

[Bengalbug]

(08-22-2023, 12:40 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: It is really hard to tell in Preseason. He is far far better than Carman, but Collins hopefully returns if Jonah struggles or gets injured. They are so thin at OL.

It was funny. Listening to Mo Egger yesterday, he threw the idea out there that maybe we trade Collins for a backup rb or TE, like when we traded price for hill. I strongly disagree with that. We have seen why the last two seasons ended and it wasn’t because of a lack of skill players. At least for this year, carry as many quality OL into the draft as humanly possible. Let’s just see what burrow can do with SOMETHING in front of him in January/February.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I like this upcoming draft for a possible RT.
Looks to have some really good Pass protectors in it.

[Joelist]

Jonah’s looked pretty decent at RT. I think part of it is both kneecaps are fixed so far and this has restored his ability to anchor.Especially last season the knee issues meant he could not anchor at all so he was getting trucked a lot.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I had hoped that after Carnan's performance in the POs, that he was gonna make a leap. That looks less & less likely. Counting on Carman for 2024 would be be foolish. Have to hold onto Collins. A top end OT being there in the late 20s seems VERY unlikely (though we could always move up). If we land a price RT prospect, then, MAYBE, think about trading Collins. But not before.

Maybe Carman makes a leap. Maybe Smith does.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2023, 11:56 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I had hoped that after Carnan's performance in the POs, that he was gonna make a leap. That looks less & less likely. Counting on Carman for 2024 would be be foolish. Have to hold onto Collins. A top end OT being there in the late 20s seems VERY unlikely (though we could always move up). If we land a price RT prospect, then, MAYBE, think about trading Collins. But not before.

Maybe Carman makes a leap. Maybe Smith does.

Carman's "leap" may be LT only. From what we've seen through his time in Cincy, LT is the only spot he's been decent at.
Smith looks to be beating him out right now.
About the only thing I can see him sticking around is if the Bengals don't value Ford and decide to roll with both Smith and Carman until Collins is back.

[007BengalsFan]

(08-22-2023, 11:56 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I had hoped that after Carnan's performance in the POs, that he was gonna make a leap. That looks less & less likely...

But in all fairness the coaching staff did Carman no favors by switching him to RT.  Carman has only played 2 football seasons and the coaching staff has moved him around to 4 different positions.  How is he going to progress when they keep moving him? I understand the need to try him at RT considering Collin's injury and Jonah initially wanting a trade but at this point I think you need to keep him where he showed some ability and see if he can improve from there.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2023, 08:40 AM)chrisball96 Wrote: Jonah’s health is always a question mark, completely agree with you there. That is why I also wanted Carman to be a reliable option as a backup there. I think we are going to be good at RT this year barring injury but if one does happen again we are relying on Collins who is also coming back from a major injury. I know you can’t have amazing backups at every position but this one has just got me concerned.

Yes, I was kind of relying on Carman at least playing decent at RT so we had good insurance in case Jonah goes down.

This preseason hasn't made me feel good about our depth that is for sure.

I do like Scharping, Hill, Adeniji and D'Ante Smith playing better though. None of these guys have been terrible like Carman 
was in the Packers game. We just have to hope La'el Collins gets healthy as Jonah always gets hurt.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-22-2023, 04:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, I was kind of relying on Carman at least playing decent at RT so we had good insurance in case Jonah goes down.

This preseason hasn't made me feel good about our depth that is for sure.

I do like Scharping, Hill, Adeniji and D'Ante Smith playing better though. None of these guys have been terrible like Carman 
was in the Packers game. We just have to hope La'el Collins gets healthy as Jonah always gets hurt.

I do not think Carman has been THAT bad in pre-season. Better than Ford, for sure. I'd be shocked if he isn't on the final roster. Of the reserves, he's the best run blocker. I'd rather have a guy who can olay one oisition than a guy who stinks at two. 

Starters + Carman & Scharping. Those are the gimmees. That's 7. 

I'd go with Hill & Adeniji next. Was hoping for a Brown/Kirkland breakout, but that hasn't happened yet. 

I'd keep only 9, Collins on PUP. The 10th OL is always inactive, sometimes #9 as well. If I did keep 10, it would be Smith. 

Ford to PS if he agrees. But I am fine with Brown/Kirkland/Gilliam if not. Smith would be our only PS worthy tackle & he could get claimed, so a risk there.