Not Built for Division

[kalibengal]

(09-17-2023, 11:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ve seen how bad things look with 2 starters out on the OL. Not pretty. Yet BAL doesn’t miss a beat today. So frustrating.

can we just trade our OLine for Baltimores 2nd stringer OL? This O Line stuff is just ridiculous now...3 yrs in and we cant seem to get the magic formula that OTHER teams have. Zack needs to shake things up starting with the scouting and Pollack. I didnt notice Trey, DJ or Hubbard at all yesterday and dont get me started on Murphy who is very MEH at this point. Ive seen ZERO from him so far to get excited about  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

It's hard to beat anyone, let alone a division rival, when you get six consecutive bad quarters of QB play, and two mediocre ones. This lack of preseason practice/play for Joe seems to REALLY stunt his starts to the season.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-18-2023, 10:18 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: No AFC North team has won the division 3 years in a row since the current division alignment in 2002. I suppose history tells us it doesn't matter if the team is built for the division or not. We aren't meant to win the North this year if fate prevails.

Source verifying:
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2023/09/10/afc-north-preview-bengals-go-for-unprecedented-third-consecutive-division-crown/stories/202309100040#:~:text=Since%20the%20NFL%20went%20to,division%20the%20past%20two%20decades.

Yep, this division is always tough. If this team comes back and wins it for the third straight year, it might finally hoist the big trophy. 

[*ochocincos*]

(09-17-2023, 09:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So, I think most agree that the Browns are a bad matchup for us.

Lamar is now 7-1 against us when he starts.

Then, we know that the Steelers always play us tough.

What do we have to do to start beating these teams more?

While I get what you mean, I think it's a bit exaggerated.

2019-2020: 2-10

2021-present: 7-7 (inc. this season)

They've been better since Burrow came back from his torn ACL.

As for identity though, I think a lot of it comes down to Bengals being a passing team whereas the division is predominantly a running division.
Bengals have shown they can't stop the Browns and Ravens from running the ball.
Lamar Jackson is incredibly difficult to defend because of his ability to scramble and avoid sacks.
Steelers have always been a thorn, but some of that is because of cheap tactics. Or as they would say, "hard nosed football."

Bengals have to be able to better establish the run and defend the run if they want to win a majority of these divisional games.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-18-2023, 10:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While I get what you mean, I think it's a bit exaggerated.

2019-2020: 2-10

2021-present: 7-7 (inc. this season)

They've been better since Burrow came back from his torn ACL.

As for identity though, I think a lot of it comes down to Bengals being a passing team whereas the division is predominantly a running division.
Bengals have shown they can't stop the Browns and Ravens from running the ball.
Lamar Jackson is incredibly difficult to defend because of his ability to scramble and avoid sacks.
Steelers have always been a thorn, but some of that is because of cheap tactics. Or as they would say, "hard nosed football."

Bengals have to be able to better establish the run and defend the run if they want to win a majority of these divisional games.

7-7 isn't spectacularly good either. The Steelers have been down the last few years. The Browns have been really bad.

The Ravens have been above average to good.

And the Bengals made a SB and Conf Championship. So we're at our peak. And 7-7.

I'd expect that to be a better record.

[Bengalitis]

if it all goes this way all season, top 2 will be ratberds and stains, bottom 2 squeelers & us.

[THE PISTONS]

So Rams, Titans, Cardinals and Seahawks over the next four weeks. Then, after the bye the 49ers and Bills.

We could win our next 4 games and be 4-2 going into the Bye.

We could also lose 2-3 of those if we continue to play like this.

[samhain]

Mike Brown has always wanted offenses that can light up the scoreboard. Despite his reputation, he's never flinched at shelling out big money for high end abs and receivers. These have been the positions the Bengals have built around for decades.

It's not really news that we are not constructed like the Ravens, Steelers, or current Browns (they've gone through many iterations to arrive here). It's been that way forever.

Frankly, if you want to go deep into the playoffs, this is the roster you build. It's been demonstrated twice. You need a team that can go toe to toe with a top quarterback and an offense that can score 35 if it needs to.

Outside of the Browns, I don't view the division as an issue. They've beaten the Ravens 4 out of the last 6 times they've played, and the losses were very close. Similar story with Pittsburgh. Even when they beat the Bengals, it's not a rout. The Browns are the only team that seems unsolvable.

[BengalYankee]

(09-17-2023, 11:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: In the Bengals defense they did whip the Bills with three missing linemen.  They were missing a corner and a safety and that wasn’t really exploited which may have been worse.

The OP stated we are not built for the AFC North.

He did not say we are not built for the AFC, which we do dominate the AFC  sans the AFC North.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-18-2023, 11:45 AM)samhain Wrote: Mike Brown has always wanted offenses that can light up the scoreboard.  Despite his reputation, he's never flinched at shelling out big money for high end abs and receivers.  These have been the positions the Bengals have built around for decades.  

It's not really news that we are not constructed like the Ravens, Steelers, or current Browns (they've gone through many iterations to arrive here).  It's been that way forever.  

Frankly, if you want to go deep into the playoffs, this is the roster you build.  It's been demonstrated twice.  You need a team that can go toe to toe with a top quarterback and an offense that can score 35 if it needs to.  

Outside of the Browns, I don't view the division as an issue.  They've beaten the Ravens 4 out of the last 6 times they've played, and the losses were very close.  Similar story with Pittsburgh.  Even when they beat the Bengals, it's not a rout.  The Browns are the only team that seems unsolvable.

They beat the Ravens when Lamar is hurt and lose to the Ravens when Lamar plays. He's 7-1 vs us when he starts.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-18-2023, 10:58 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 7-7 isn't spectacularly good either. The Steelers have been down the last few years. The Browns have been really bad.

The Ravens have been above average to good.

And the Bengals made a SB and Conf Championship. So we're at our peak. And 7-7.

I'd expect that to be a better record.

I guess that's up to interpretation, but the Browns the past 3 seasons:
2020 - 11-5
2021 - 8-9
2022 - 7-10

When I think "really bad" I think of a team with 5 or less wins.

Steelers same boat.
2020 - 12-4
2021 - 9-7-1
2022 - 9-8

I think you're being harsher on the quality of the division than is actually reality.

[samhain]

(09-18-2023, 11:54 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They beat the Ravens when Lamar is hurt and lose to the Ravens when Lamar plays. He's 7-1 vs us when he starts.

Sure, but let's not pretend this is a straight up comparison.  Lamar beat the hell out of some horrific Bengals teams that lost to a whole lot of quarterbacks in Marvin's last season and Taylor's first and second.  You're talking about years that got a 16 year head coach fired and a tank year.  So there's 4 of the 7.  He also beat Burrow in his rookie year when he was playing behind a historically bad line with no Chase and a defense that wasn't yet formed.

Lamar is enjoying a moment while Burrow is licking his wounds.  That's literally it.  In December, whether Burrow is well or not, the best bet is that Lamar is missing games like he does every year as his team washes out while being solid but not quite enough.  He's not been able to handle the demands of a full season for awhile now.

There's a reason Baltimore tried to unload him in the offseason and found no buyers.  

To me, 3 games matter.  The Baltimore home tilt in 2021 that the Bengals dominated, last year in Baltimore, and this year at home, which is still iffy considering Burrow's health.

The real issue in this rivalry to me is the unloading of Martindale for McDonald.  McDonald has done a much better job vs the Bengals current offense than Wink, and Burrow/Taylor have yet to solve it, although they have notched two big victories against him.

[M.W.]

(09-18-2023, 10:27 AM)Wyche Wrote: It's hard to beat anyone, let alone a division rival, when you get six consecutive bad quarters of QB play, and two mediocre ones. This lack of preseason practice/play for Joe seems to REALLY stunt his starts to the season.

Agreed, I will add some pretty bad play calling too.  If the offense goes series after series without a first down you leave the defense very little time to rest.

I do believe the defense will improve when the offense does. 

[samhain]

(09-18-2023, 01:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I guess that's up to interpretation, but the Browns the past 3 seasons:
2020 - 11-5
2021 - 8-9
2022 - 7-10

When I think "really bad" I think of a team with 5 or less wins.

Steelers same boat.
2020 - 12-4
2021 - 9-7-1
2022 - 9-8

I think you're being harsher on the quality of the division than is actually reality.

There are 4 solid teams in the division.  They may or may not have the capability of becoming deep playoff run good.  Only one has proven to be deep playoff run good in the last two seasons.  

[*ochocincos*]

(09-18-2023, 01:58 PM)samhain Wrote: There are 4 solid teams in the division.  They may or may not have the capability of becoming deep playoff run good.  Only one has proven to be deep playoff run good in the last two seasons.  

Exactly.

You're going to have most, if not all, teams in this division with 8-11 wins.

[samhain]

(09-18-2023, 02:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly.

You're going to have most, if not all, teams in this division with 8-11 wins.

Mike Tomlin wins 9 or 10 just getting his team to show up at the stadium.  

[THE PISTONS]

The Ravens go out and aggressively trade for good players and draft well. Same with the Steelers and Browns.

I'd say that their front offices are head of the Bengals for atleast 2 of those teams.

[BengalsBong]

(09-17-2023, 11:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like some of our guys have egos and just expect to show up and win.

Zac seems the same way I think he laughs at our division games as irrelevant. As long as we stick with the same lack luster approach in preseason and training camp the NFL will continue to stack two division games early.

As much as I would hate to see it a losing season would wake this team up and let them know they are just another team nothing special. Which they are nothing special just one of 32 NFL teams' early success has made these guys think their sh*t don't stink.

[TKUHL]

Looks like the trend of no team in the AFCN winning 3 years in a row will continue. I know it’s only week 2 not to panic but damn we don’t even look like we can compete against teams in outer division. We got lucky the past few years with Balt being banged up as usual, Pitt transitioning to a new QB and Cleveland being a mess and waiting for Watson to get his feet under him. But now they are all better while we look worse. I get it that Burrow is not 100% but this damn defense has got to show up and help him out. They did get a few stops with decent field position but either we go 3 and out or we would shoot our selves in the foot with penalties.

[HarleyDog]

(09-17-2023, 11:13 PM)Whacked Wrote: We used to be built for this division. Not any http:// more.