Just watched all the offensive snaps and this is worse than we’re discussing

[jj22]

Look all Im saying and been saying is to point to the calf for the be all end all for the issues we are seeing with Burrow and the Offense is just lazy. The easy out. The injury has exposed much more even if people have come to the conclusion Burrow is a bum without being able to hold the ball and make unscripted plays (which we all know given his quick release only being surpassed by Brady, that this is a lie, but folks have told it so much this past month it's become set in stone).

And I maintain, even if no one wants to admit it now, all of us said he wasn't going to have a long career if his taking beating continued. And they have.

That's my argument as a whole. I'm not going to continue to give it in different way to try to explain it to those who are obviously and understandably heartbroken about the developments.

[Eraserhead]

(10-03-2023, 06:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: Look all Im saying and been saying is to point to the calf for the be all end all for the issues we are seeing with Burrow and the Offense is just lazy. The easy out. The injury has exposed much more even if people have come to the conclusion Burrow is a bum without being able to hold the ball and make unscripted plays (which we all know given his quick release only being surpassed by Brady, that this is a lie, but folks have told it so much this past month it's become set in stone).

And I maintain, even if no one wants to admit it now, all of us said he wasn't going to have a long career if his taking beating continued. And they have.

That's my argument as a whole. I'm not going to continue to give it in different way to try to explain it to those who are obviously and understandably heartbroken about the developments.

LOL This whole thread has been about you saying the wildest shit you can think of so you can get reactions. No one in their right mind thinks Burrow is washed or would look like this without the injury. Get off the interwebz and go outside for awhile.

[Eraserhead]

(10-03-2023, 05:40 PM)PlayadLc Wrote: So many posters have completely lost it. It's like the last two years never happened.

Fish-brain stuff.

This place is starting to get as frustrating as the tweeterverse,, but at least there are some voices of reason pushing back here.

[Housh]

(10-03-2023, 05:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Here's the entire play, where you said...

'3rd and 4 again, so 4 yards gets a 1st and Titans once again blitz and once again Burrow can’t deliver to an open WR. Tyler Boyd is wide open(with an accurate pass) right at the 1st down pylon and Burrow sails it out of bounds.'





Boyd's running his route, back is to Joe. Once Joe plants, McCreary comes of his man and takes Boyd. Joe's throw is to the sideline, but Boyd turns upfield.

I can post the other play as well if you want.

Boyd is wide open if that pass is low and to the pylon. He just doesn’t throw it

Clearly I’m not saying the calf means nothing but his issue is more of him making poor reads and not progressing through his options than his calf is causing him not to throw because he’s afraid of injury

[*ochocincos*]

(10-03-2023, 06:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: Look all Im saying and been saying is to point to the calf for the be all end all for the issues we are seeing with Burrow and the Offense is just lazy. The easy out. The injury has exposed much more even if people have come to the conclusion Burrow is a bum without being able to hold the ball and make unscripted plays (which we all know given his quick release only being surpassed by Brady, that this is a lie, but folks have told it so much this past month it's become set in stone).

And I maintain, even if no one wants to admit it now, all of us said he wasn't going to have a long career if his taking beating continued. And they have.

That's my argument as a whole. I'm not going to continue to give it in different way to try to explain it to those who are obviously and understandably heartbroken about the developments.

Bruh, you're really jumping the gun after just 4 games.

If he continues to play like this the whole year and next year, I'll start agreeing with that sentiment.
But right now, it's far too early to say that.
That's purely a gut feeling you (and some others) may have, and I don't share that feeling.

[Bengalholic]

(10-03-2023, 06:56 PM)Housh Wrote: Boyd is wide open if that pass is low and to the pylon. He just doesn’t throw it

Clearly I’m not saying the calf means nothing but his issue is more of him making poor reads and not progressing through his options than his calf is causing him not to throw because he’s afraid of injury

Watch in back in slo-mo if you get a chance. Boyd actually turns upfield, while Joe's throw is to the sideline. Not only was he never 'wide open' IMO, but it looked like a possible miscommunication.

[Housh]

(10-03-2023, 07:17 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Watch in back in slo-mo if you get a chance. Boyd actually turns upfield, while Joe's throw is to the sideline. Not only was was he never 'wide open' IMO, but it looked like a possible miscommunication.

I think he threw it away but Boyd definitely did turn upfield. I think Boyd is good enough to where if shoe fired that pylon Boyd would’ve adjusted and got it

But opinions are allowed to differ so we’ll agree to disagree

[iLLuSi0nz]

I think everything cross body (left side of field) is going to automatically be worse with the calf. Harder to twist your body and throw accurately without planting firmly or following through more. Lots more floaty lob like throws. IMO seems like he's trying to poorly time that correctly since he can't just put it exactly where he wants with follow through. Right side is better but not a ton.

I believe line play is also making this much more difficult for him to trust anything he's doing physically or mentally. I would think you automatically have an "escape" type mindset when people are coming after you. Once you are in the situation of knowing 100% there won't be an escape that would make it pretty difficult to focus on anything else other than the impending blast you are about to take. You go from taking the hit like you would standing tall in the pocket after a throw to worrying about landing wrong or getting hit wrong and ending your season and possibly part of the next season or winding up hurt with another non-related injury.

When he's somehow clean (rare) he's throwing flat footed half the time or not fully planting on his throws. Less velocity, less accuracy, more mental gymnastics worrying about his throws knowing they are not like they used to be. Worrying about planting too hard finding that medium ground where throws can be decent but not further tweak the calf.

Coaching making this even worse as play calling is absolute garbage. Disservice to Joe and the entire team to not gameplan better for his injury if planning to trot him out there the whole game. Run game not utilized enough when it's working. Creativity is zero. Defense already has a leg up with knowing to an extent his limitations. That seems to not even have been a factor of the offensive gameplan and teams are teeing off. Once they get ahead, they will have an even bigger edge knowing we are out of time to run.

All the things combined make this a crap situation all together. Bad habits being developed, risking further injury / seasons, losses piling up with literally zero gain. Team needs to start with sitting him. Thank him for his willingness to battle through it but save him from his own stubbornness to keep playing. Polack should be afraid for his job and whoever is calling the plays between Zack and Brian needs to get their crap together and put in A LOT more effort in week-to-week game planning.

[Stonyhands]

(10-03-2023, 12:34 PM)Housh Wrote: 3rd and 4 and Chase AND Tanner Hudson are WIDE OPEN for 1st down yardage and because the Titans all out blitzed Burrow gets scared and throws it away. Burrow didn’t even look to his right to see Chase and Tanner open. He got tunnel vision on Boyd and the pressure caused an incomplete pass. Tanner Hudson blocked and released and literally no one guarded him. Chase was also in front of his man 5 feet. We only needed 4 yards.

3rd and 4 again, so 4 yards gets a 1st and Titans once again blitz and once again Burrow can’t deliver to an open WR. Tyler Boyd is wide open(with an accurate pass) right at the 1st down pylon and Burrow sails it out of bounds.




This dude isn’t so injured he can’t turn his head and look to the right. He’s not so injured he can’t move left or right in the pocket. He’s just not. Dude got the money and totally forgot how to be a NFL QB.

Dude forgot how to play football overnight.


And god forbid he check out of some of these trash ass Zac Taylor plays. On 1 3rd down we had 4 routes going out and all but 1 went like 10 yards down the field on a 3rd and 3. So one guy who the ball is supposed to go to sits down right at the 1st down and i have to assume the other routes were decoys because no way Zac actually thought they were gonna get open. So any good defender that understands route concepts already knows that own of these routes is sitting right at the 1st down. If you happen to get really good at watching film and guessing which guy is gonna sit at the 1st, you could theoretically destroys Zac’s whole playbook.

Why not have 3/4 routes stop at the first to put pressure across the defensive equally. When only one guy does it you are basically hoping that that one defender just guesses wrong or doesn’t watch tape. I also saw that a bunch of Zac’s plays do have concepts where certain routes are there to distract defenders from the real routes we wanna hit but that doesn’t really work if you are say doing a go with Trenton Irwin to open up an out for Chase. Why in the hell would you give any attention to the go route? Your 5th string CB can go step for step with Irwin on a go so why not just sit on whatever Chase does? We need to put Chase and Tee on the same side ALOT more.




Final play is a 2nd and 5. Right at snap the RB is wide open for 1st down yardage on a block and release and Irwin is wide open and Burrow is looking dead at the guy. He refuses to throw to either and sack.


This isn’t a case of Burrow making immaculate reads and just being in accurate. Dude is playing like pure shit. He’s missing WIDE OPEN reads and he’s in accurate too. This isn’t all on a calf. It appears as if Burrow tries to change how he plays QB and he thought it was good but it’s not. It’s ***** horrible.

What’s the o-line doing? I read somewhere that the o-line on passing plays gives up more space to pass block than other lines. I’m also curious whether or not Joe knowing he’s limited with mobility has fallen on the crutch of predetermining his throws. While you may have seen guys open, there was an article posted about the Titans purposely taking away passing lanes in the middle of the field. A mobile Joe would have shredded that game plan.

[*bfine32*]

(10-03-2023, 05:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Fans turning on or writing off Joe so quickly after a SB appearance and 2 AFC championship games just seems insane to me. 

I feel the same way with folks doing it to Zac.

It's insane 

[Stonyhands]

(10-03-2023, 12:34 PM)Housh Wrote: 3rd and 4 and Chase AND Tanner Hudson are WIDE OPEN for 1st down yardage and because the Titans all out blitzed Burrow gets scared and throws it away. Burrow didn’t even look to his right to see Chase and Tanner open. He got tunnel vision on Boyd and the pressure caused an incomplete pass. Tanner Hudson blocked and released and literally no one guarded him. Chase was also in front of his man 5 feet. We only needed 4 yards.

3rd and 4 again, so 4 yards gets a 1st and Titans once again blitz and once again Burrow can’t deliver to an open WR. Tyler Boyd is wide open(with an accurate pass) right at the 1st down pylon and Burrow sails it out of bounds.




This dude isn’t so injured he can’t turn his head and look to the right. He’s not so injured he can’t move left or right in the pocket. He’s just not. Dude got the money and totally forgot how to be a NFL QB.

Dude forgot how to play football overnight.


And god forbid he check out of some of these trash ass Zac Taylor plays. On 1 3rd down we had 4 routes going out and all but 1 went like 10 yards down the field on a 3rd and 3. So one guy who the ball is supposed to go to sits down right at the 1st down and i have to assume the other routes were decoys because no way Zac actually thought they were gonna get open. So any good defender that understands route concepts already knows that own of these routes is sitting right at the 1st down. If you happen to get really good at watching film and guessing which guy is gonna sit at the 1st, you could theoretically destroys Zac’s whole playbook.

Why not have 3/4 routes stop at the first to put pressure across the defensive equally. When only one guy does it you are basically hoping that that one defender just guesses wrong or doesn’t watch tape. I also saw that a bunch of Zac’s plays do have concepts where certain routes are there to distract defenders from the real routes we wanna hit but that doesn’t really work if you are say doing a go with Trenton Irwin to open up an out for Chase. Why in the hell would you give any attention to the go route? Your 5th string CB can go step for step with Irwin on a go so why not just sit on whatever Chase does? We need to put Chase and Tee on the same side ALOT more.




Final play is a 2nd and 5. Right at snap the RB is wide open for 1st down yardage on a block and release and Irwin is wide open and Burrow is looking dead at the guy. He refuses to throw to either and sack.


This isn’t a case of Burrow making immaculate reads and just being in accurate. Dude is playing like pure shit. He’s missing WIDE OPEN reads and he’s in accurate too. This isn’t all on a calf. It appears as if Burrow tries to change how he plays QB and he thought it was good but it’s not. It’s ***** horrible.

What’s the o-line doing? I read somewhere that the o-line on passing plays gives up more space to pass block than other lines. I’m also curious whether or not Joe knowing he’s limited with mobility has fallen on the crutch of predetermining his throws. While you may have seen guys open, there was an article posted about the Titans purposely taking away passing lanes in the middle of the field. A mobile Joe would have shredded that game plan.

[hoosierbengal]

The entire thing has me perplexed to be honest. I just don’t understand why he has been playing with what we have seen. However he is playing and I really think if Joe believes he can’t quickly move side to side or just move around in the pocket my guess is it is totally making him process the game way different. He probably feels trapped in the pocket and his mental timer is much quicker. I think it has him mentally out of wack as much as physically. My guess is his teammates would prefer a physically capable player under center even if he isn’t as talented as a healthy Joe Burrow.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2023, 06:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: This doesn't make any sense to me. So he's so focused on the calf he can only look at one receiving option even when protected? That just means he really is washed. Shell shocked like Carr.

No, what doesn't make sense is you thinking it's all the beatings he's taken and not his calf injury. 

(10-03-2023, 06:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: You can sell me on accuracy being an issue, but not vision. The ball should still go to the right read even if the throw is missed due to not being able to push off or whatever the reason may be.

So, him having all this extraenous stuff going on in his mind (add in the pressure of the poor showing so far at thi spoint, too) combined with whatever pain meds he may or may not be on is having no effect on Joe. That's what you're saying. I take it, then, that you've never ever been sick or injured or on any kind of pain medication if you think Joe's cognitive abilities should still be the same as they were.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2023, 06:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ok so you weren't worried about him surviving long taking all those hits his rookie year either. Interesting no one wants to admit to that now. Never seen so many refusing to say they were right.

Just because I was worried about him taking a lot of hits doesn't mean that the reason for his struggles this year are the hits. Explain to me how he managed to go to a Super Bowl followed by an AFCCG behind poor OL performances but NOW it's affecting him. How is it he was able to overcome the poor OL for 2 and a half seasons but NOW he's struggling?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2023, 06:06 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ask me after he sits for the season like I said was the only hope at this point to get him back. 

No, I'm asking you now. You CLEARLY stated he was done, ruined; the window was closed; the Burrow of old is not returning. So, is he ruined or isn't he?

[reuben.ahmed]

(10-03-2023, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I feel the same way with folks doing it to Zac.

It's insane 

zac can't do anything with a broken burrow. we should see what he can do with a healthy backup.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2023, 06:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: Look all Im saying and been saying is to point to the calf for the be all end all for the issues we are seeing with Burrow and the Offense is just lazy. The easy out. The injury has exposed much more even if people have come to the conclusion Burrow is a bum without being able to hold the ball and make unscripted plays (which we all know given his quick release only being surpassed by Brady, that this is a lie, but folks have told it so much this past month it's become set in stone).

And I maintain, even if no one wants to admit it now, all of us said he wasn't going to have a long career if his taking beating continued. And they have.

That's my argument as a whole. I'm not going to continue to give it in different way to try to explain it to those who are obviously and understandably heartbroken about the developments.

Please, then, explain how Joe was able to overcome the "beatings" the past 2 seasons in helping us get to the Super Bowl and a follow up AFCCG appearance but now he can't. I'd LOVE to hear your explanation how Joe overcame the "beatings" to look like the 2nd best QB in the NFL the last 2 seasons but now looks like the worst.

(10-03-2023, 06:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: And I maintain, even if no one wants to admit it now, all of us said he wasn't going to have a long career if his taking beating continued. And they have.

You realize the fear people were concerned about was Joe getting INJURED if his taking a beating continued, right?

[Housh]

If it makes anyone feel better i just logged in my Facebook and saw Bengals fans comparing Joe to Akili Smith….

[reuben.ahmed]

(10-04-2023, 12:53 AM)hoosierbengal Wrote: The entire thing has me perplexed to be honest. I just don’t understand why he has been playing with what we have seen. However he is playing and I really think if Joe believes he can’t quickly move side to side or just move around in the pocket my guess is it is totally making him process the game way different. He probably feels trapped in the pocket and his mental timer is much quicker. I think it has him mentally out of wack as much as physically. My guess is his teammates would prefer a physically capable player under center even if he isn’t as talented as a healthy Joe Burrow.

The designed plays where he gets the ball out quick and not due to pressure are the only ones that "work" for those 3-4 yard throws. The plays he has time in the pocket aren't resulting in anything good for whatever reason. Yeah when Burrow misses those easy outs I'm sure Chase is like da fuq you doing.

Yeah it looks like he's got mental issues related to how he's having to protect his injury and it's easy to form bad habits that are hard to break, he's paid a lot of money to not think about the past and that's supposed to be one of his best strengths. It won't be much longer until we're at mid season and those bad habits won't have a chance to break until the offseason. I wonder if he's got a mental therapist that specializes in sports trying to help him or not on the coaching staff.

[Nepa]

(10-03-2023, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I feel the same way with folks doing it to Zac.

It's insane 

I've been a fan since the inception of the franchise. For over half-a-century of rooting for the Bengals, I watched season after season end with only three including playoff wins. Only three: The 1981 season, the 1988 season, and the 1990 season. And from 1990 to 2021, Bengals fans didn't witness a single playoff win. Not a single playoff win in over 30 years. And never in the entire history of the Bengals did the team win even a single away playoff game. 

So -- Zac and Burrow have earned my deepest gratitude and respect and admiration. And I'm not going to turn on them four games into a season, after having been to the AFCCC two years in a row, including three away game playoff victories, and nearly winning a Super Bowl.