The Bengals’ Rushing Attack (Or Lack Thereof)

[*ochocincos*]

The Bengals will never be a heavy running team.
They don't have the personnel, playcalling, scheme, all that to be one.
They are a pass-driven team.

With that said, the Chiefs, Dolphins, and Bills are the same, but they are way more efficient/effective when they do rush.
Chiefs are 9th in the league in YPC.
Bills are 15th in the league in YPC.
Dolphins lead the league in YPC.

Bengals? 25th

[chrisball96]

(10-10-2023, 10:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals will never be a heavy running team.
They don't have the personnel, playcalling, scheme, all that to be one.
They are a pass-driven team.

With that said, the Chiefs, Dolphins, and Bills are the same, but they are way more efficient/effective when they do rush.
Chiefs are 9th in the league in YPC.
Bills are 15th in the league in YPC.
Dolphins lead the league in YPC.

Bengals? 25th

Very good point. And I know that I sound like a broken record, but all those teams have very good, very healthy (for now) QB's. Mixon looked okay at times earlier this year, so if we can get back to that, and like you said, not run it all of the time, but take advantage of the times we do run the ball that will be key. Teams know Joe can now throw the long ball with more accuracy and frequency, so I'm hoping that opens up more options in the run game to maybe catch defenses off guard. Because we saw what happened at the goal line when Arizona knew the run was coming. 

[Frank Booth]

(10-10-2023, 11:07 AM)chrisball96 Wrote: Very good point. And I know that I sound like a broken record, but all those teams have very good, very healthy (for now) QB's. Mixon looked okay at times earlier this year, so if we can get back to that, and like you said, not run it all of the time, but take advantage of the times we do run the ball that will be key. Teams know Joe can now throw the long ball with more accuracy and frequency, so I'm hoping that opens up more options in the run game to maybe catch defenses off guard. Because we saw what happened at the goal line when Arizona knew the run was coming. 

Even when Burrow was healthy the previous 2 seasons, the run game was still inefficient

[Frank Booth]

(10-09-2023, 11:42 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: I remember last year seeing Perine stiff arm and drag guys for yards. Especially late in the 4th when we had the ball and the lead running the clock down Perine was plowing for 5,6, 8 yds a shot and sometimes more. That's a run game. Old fashioned style, run it down their throat and wear em out. Plus, he was an excellent blocking back for JB.

I would’ve loved for them to find a way to keep Perine and let Mixon go. Perine seemed to run much more productively than Mixon. Not to mention the pass protection

[RegularGuy22]

(10-10-2023, 10:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals will never be a heavy running team.
They don't have the personnel, playcalling, scheme, all that to be one.
They are a pass-driven team.

With that said, the Chiefs, Dolphins, and Bills are the same, but they are way more efficient/effective when they do rush.
Chiefs are 9th in the league in YPC.
Bills are 15th in the league in YPC.
Dolphins lead the league in YPC.

Bengals? 25th

Exactly what alot of us are saying. They don't have to lead the league but a top 15 like the teams you listed would only add to this pass happy offense.

I watched some of the SF-Dallas game and they were running the I formation, 2 backs with QB under center and were blowing Dallas off the field. Had Dallas on their heels all night.

[Frank Booth]

(10-10-2023, 12:14 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Exactly what alot of us are saying. They don't have to lead the league but a top 15 like the teams you listed would only add to this pass happy offense.

I watched some of the SF-Dallas game and they were running the I formation, 2 backs with QB under center and were blowing Dallas off the field. Had Dallas on their heels all night.

Run heavy is san fran’s scheme. Bengals don’t need 2 backs, and with Callahan, it ain’t gonna happen. But Perine had no issue being efficient last year in this offense. Mixon though? Still as bad as ever

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2023, 11:40 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: I would’ve loved for them to find a way to keep Perine and let Mixon go. Perine seemed to run much more productively than Mixon. Not to mention the pass protection

I remember reading that Perrine was quoted as saying he essentially took the same money in Denver as the Bengals had offered him to remain, because he wanted to go to a team where he had a legitimate shot at becoming the featured back.  Through 5 games this season, Perrine has 88 yards on 24 carries in a RBBC situation.

I also wish that he would have remained with the Bengals, especially after seeing how things have turned out for him in Denver thus far.

[Garrus]

(10-10-2023, 12:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I remember reading that Perrine was quoted as saying he essentially took the same money in Denver as the Bengals had offered him to remain, because he wanted to go to a team where he had a legitimate shot at becoming the featured back.  Through 5 games this season, Perrine has 88 yards on 24 carries in a RBBC situation.

I also wish that he would have remained with the Bengals, especially after seeing how things have turned out for him in Denver thus far.

He also said he wanted to be closer to his family in Colorado so there was not much the Bengals could have done to keep him other than overpaying for him. Still, that doesn't excuse them from not doing more to upgrade the RB2 position in the offseason. 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2023, 12:51 PM)Garrus Wrote: He also said he wanted to be closer to his family in Colorado so there was not much the Bengals could have done to keep him other than overpaying for him. Still, that doesn't excuse them from not doing more to upgrade the RB2 position in the offseason. 

This is true.  On another note, I see that AJ Dillon is in the final year of his rookie deal.  Wouldn't mind seeing the Bengals make a play for that style of back in free agency.  

[Frank Booth]

(10-10-2023, 01:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This is true.  On another note, I see that AJ Dillon is in the final year of his rookie deal.  Wouldn't mind seeing the Bengals make a play for that style of back in free agency.  

AJ Dillion isn’t very good

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2023, 01:26 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: AJ Dillion isn’t very good

Not very good compared to guys like Aaron Jones, but for RB2 and short yardage guy I think that he would fill that role that Perrine served in very well.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2023, 01:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not very good compared to guys like Aaron Jones, but for RB2 and short yardage guy I think that he would fill that role that Perrine served in very well.

Perine really served in a FB/H-B role while being with the Bengals.
Or at least the things we liked about him.

We want someone who can block, catch out of the backfield, and run between the tackles some.

You might be able to find a guy like that in the draft.
Hunter Luepke is a guy I liked for the Perine role this past draft. He went undrafted and is now on the Cowboys.
A guy I'm keeping my eye on for this year is Ben Sinnott, the H-B/TE out of K-St. He's closer to Ryan Hewitt though than a true FB.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-10-2023, 10:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals will never be a heavy running team.
They don't have the personnel, playcalling, scheme, all that to be one.
They are a pass-driven team.

With that said, the Chiefs, Dolphins, and Bills are the same, but they are way more efficient/effective when they do rush.
Chiefs are 9th in the league in YPC.
Bills are 15th in the league in YPC.
Dolphins lead the league in YPC.

Bengals? 25th

^This^

Like F.Booth said in a post, "it's not about running more, it's about being more effective at running the ball"

I'd love to see a yards per carry by qtr stat on us. It sure seems as the game wears on we suck more and more every run play. It seems we can't run at all on 3rd and short and 4th down. It sure seems our rushing in the redzone especially inside the 10 is awful. And I don't have any answer for that?

I don't know if it's blocking scheme, or just the blocking itself? I don't know if we "tip plays" or are just to predictable? Do we need to mix in more pre-snap movement? Is it the rungame coordinator?

Something is wrong

[Joelist]

Running out of shotgun immediately disadvantages the back because it causes the play to unfold slower and the defense can see where the run is going. Then there is our weirdly not embracing Power running when we have a Power Gap line - we still insist on trying to use Wide Zone concepts. Also, do we have a Jumbo package? We should even if infrequently used. Sample is a very good blocker, let him be in as a lead blocker. Embrace the power (Gap).

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(10-10-2023, 12:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I remember reading that Perrine was quoted as saying he essentially took the same money in Denver as the Bengals had offered him to remain, because he wanted to go to a team where he had a legitimate shot at becoming the featured back.  Through 5 games this season, Perrine has 88 yards on 24 carries in a RBBC situation.

I also wish that he would have remained with the Bengals, especially after seeing how things have turned out for him in Denver thus far.

To be fair, I've watched a few Broncos games and he's a bad luck runner. He's had several powerful 10-15 yard runs get called back by penalties that didn't affect the play, WR covers the TE on the line of scrimmage, WR hold away from the ball, hands to the face away from the ball etc..

[impactplaya]

Devon Archane would have been a tremendous asset
To the backfield this year. And the Bengals had
Pre-draft interest in him too.
Chase Brown has shown nothing in a small sample size

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2023, 05:15 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Devon Archane would have been a tremendous asset
To the backfield this year. And the Bengals had
Pre-draft interest in him too.
Chase Brown has shown nothing in a small sample size

Except Achane went before the Bengals even picked in the 3rd round.
Bengals would have had to take him in Rd 2, and CB was a much bigger need than RB2.

Chase Brown has hardly shown anything because he's only been given 4 offensive snaps.
He's buried behind Mixon, Williams, and Evans.

Who is to say Achane wouldn't be relegated to the bench like Brown if he were a Bengal?

Also, look at how many pass block attempts Achane has done with the Dolphins.
Hint - it's 0.

Bengals wanted and needed RBs who will/could pass block. A 185 lb dude wasn't going to pass block.

I don't blame the Bengals for the Chase Brown selection, especially as a 5th rounder.
I think he could show (a lot) more if given more opportunity.
Bengals just need to try him.

With that said, Williams does sport a 5.0 YPC on 52 rushing attempts in his career. He's not as bad as some make him out to be.
He also needs more opportunity.

[*Synric*]

The Bengals are sorely lacking the ability to attack the edges of a defense in the run game. Probably the reason we have seen so many two back looks with Chase running the orbit or the swing pass.

One part of the vertical rush offense the Bengals are missing is the ability to pin and pull. They don't really have linemen they can trust that will get around the edge with enough speed and make blocks against linebackers/safeties in space.

[*ochocincos*]

For those wondering why Trayveon Williams is essentially RB2 over Brown and Evans, here's something that might explain why....pass blocking.

PFF has Trayveon Williams with a pass blocking grade of 85.5, which is tied for 5th among all RBs.
He has 13 pass block snaps on the season, which is just 12 less than Mixon (60.7 PB grade).
Evans has just 2 pass block snaps this season, and his blocking grade is a horrendous 13.6.
Chase Brown has not been asked to pass block yet this season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-09-2023, 01:22 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Running the ball to move the chains and sustain long drives is more important in the AFC North than in any division in the NFL. It gets cold and slick in Cincinnati, Cleveland, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh so it makes sense to run under these conditions as well as when the opposing defense has a credible pass rush — which all of the AFC North teams currently do.

Why then does Cincinnati stand alone in then AFC North with a less than average run game?  Yesterday frustrated me immensely watching Joe Mixon get stuffed at the goal line TWICE.  31/32 teams have the push from the offensive line to score from the one yard line.  Why not the Bengals?

Yes, I know the NFL is primary a passing league now but sometimes one has to impose one’s will via either side A-gap.

We have a lot of passing minds on our coaching staff, not many run coaches like say Shanahan of the 49ers.

Wish we would learn what he is doing in San Fran and apply a bit of that here, but so would everybody.

(10-09-2023, 01:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They don’t stand alone. Pittsburgh has no running game either.

Beat me to it on the stealers.

(10-09-2023, 01:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Because prior to Taylor coming into his HC role, he was just a passing game coordinator and QB coach.
Because Callahan prior to coming into his OC role was a QB coach.
Frank Pollack had only just been OL coach, not a run game coordinator or OC.

So, IMO, you have a collection of guys with a lack of experience with building an effective run game.
Maybe they could get the RB coach, Justin Hill, more involved in the running game to get it more effective?

Also beat me to it on our passing mentality coming from our coaches and Burrow.

Justin Hill needs more say I think and we need to devote more to the running game. What FIK brings up here is a legit concern.