Outcoached

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2015, 04:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Who is bragging about it?  

The whole debate is over whether we are being out coached.   If the team is prepared and motivated then the coaches have done their jobs.   It's not like we do not line up properly or have loads of false starts and turnovers.    

Close losses and close wins happen.   The best teams in the league usually have loads of them.    I personally don't believe the primetime curse or whatever it's called.    The fact is on primetime you play the best teams.  This year is all we can compare this team.   And yes 3 of the 4 losses are in primetime.   Do you think we would lose again to Texans, cardinals, Broncos, or steelers?  I personally don't see us losing to any of them unless we had massive injuries.   The cardinals we would need Andy back.  But the rest we could win with all but Andy.

It's very comforting that in your mind we could beat the teams we lost to if we played them again, but some of us choose to base our critique upon reality and not some sort of untestable fantasy.  Dalton isn't healthy, and we aren't going to play the Cardinals again this year unless it's in the Super Bowl.  As for the AFC teams we lost to, it's possible we see them again but Dalton won't likely be playing.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 04:55 PM)Rattler Wrote: Got a lead and went conservative and failed to adjust to Denvers 2nd half adjustments.

Example 8 in the box and we run right into it or hitch screen that's covered by 2 DB's and a LB
etc, etc, we never altered what we did and forgot we had a TE on the field - some of that was
Hue but Marvin is responsible for it.

You are mostly referencing execution problems not game management. As far as going conservative ... The coverage dictated that when they stopped running almost exclusive man coverage. Zone slows it down and forces you to hit underneath. I am sure everyone would have been happy had wade Phillips stayed in his man coverage and AJM would have thrown for 400.

We still took shots but didn't connect due to execution errors.

You need to be able to run at an 8 man box sometimes.

Now if you said we went conservative vs the 49ers last week. Yes it was blantantly obvious marvin pulled the reins back on hue and the offense . But this week I didn't see it.

[Rattler]

(12-29-2015, 05:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You are mostly referencing execution problems not game management.   As far as going conservative ...  The coverage dictated that when they stopped running almost exclusive man coverage.   Zone slows it down and forces you to hit underneath.   I am sure everyone would have been happy had wade Phillips stayed in his man coverage and AJM would have thrown for 400.  

We still took shots but didn't connect due to execution errors.  

You need to be able to run at an 8 man box sometimes.  

Now if you said we went conservative vs the 49ers last week.   Yes it was blantantly obvious marvin pulled the reins back on hue and the offense .    But this week I didn't see it.

Pretty obvious we weren't going to pick up diddly squat in the 2nd half - TE was open and yet we only
threw to Kroft twice in the 2nd half - Gio short screens over the middle was there. 

They clearly took away the run and forced McCarron to beat them, but Hue outsmarts himself again running
straight into the buzzsaw of doom time and time again. 

With this O-line, we're not going to have success running against 8 in the box.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 05:19 PM)Rattler Wrote: Pretty obvious we weren't going to pick up diddly squat in the 2nd half - TE was open and yet we only
threw to Kroft twice in the 2nd half - Gio short screens over the middle was there. 

They clearly took away the run and forced McCarron to beat them, but Hue outsmarts himself again running
straight into the buzzsaw of doom time and time again. 

With this O-line, we're not going to have success running against 8 in the box.

Once again. Screens aren't good vs a team running exclusive zone. And you are really upset at them for not featuring a 3rd round rookie TE..... Yeah he made some plays but he also dropped one on 3rd down that would have kept the drive Alive.

Does our running game need improvement .... Of course. But these are execution errors. You should be able to run the ball at an 8 man box. We did it last year.

Did we have a lot of execution errors that need sorted..... Yes. But this is not game management issues. Execution errors get coached up wed-fri. Then the players have to play.

[bengal kitten uk]

Occasionally running into an 8 man box is one thing. Continually running at an 8 man box when your FB is out injured and the defense is selling out against the run is insanity.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(12-29-2015, 05:19 PM)Rattler Wrote: Pretty obvious we weren't going to pick up diddly squat in the 2nd half - TE was open and yet we only
threw to Kroft twice in the 2nd half - Gio short screens over the middle was there. 

They clearly took away the run and forced McCarron to beat them, but Hue outsmarts himself again running
straight into the buzzsaw of doom time and time again. 

With this O-line, we're not going to have success running against 8 in the box.

McCarron could have beat them, he was having success with the short and intermediate stuff all day. I understand you don't want to give up on the run, but you take what the defense gives you. Marvin and AJ were catching everything that was thrown to them under 15 yards. Why we went away from that is mind boggling.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 05:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's very comforting that in your mind we could beat the teams we lost to if we played them again, but some of us choose to base our critique upon reality and not some sort of untestable fantasy.  Dalton isn't healthy, and we aren't going to play the Cardinals again this year unless it's in the Super Bowl.  As for the AFC teams we lost to, it's possible we see them again but Dalton won't likely be playing.

Ok well we can make a wager on that if the opportunity presents itself. I am confident because our team/staff/player fundamentals are solid.

[Rattler]

(12-29-2015, 05:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Once again.  Screens aren't good vs a team running exclusive zone.    And you are really upset at them for not featuring a 3rd round rookie TE.....   Yeah he made some plays but he also dropped one on 3rd down that would have kept the drive Alive.  

Does our running game need improvement .... Of course.   But these are execution errors.   You should be able to run the ball at an 8 man box.   We did it last year.  

Did we have a lot of execution errors that need sorted..... Yes.   But this is not game management issues.    Execution errors get coached up wed-fri.   Then the players have to play.

It clearly wasn't working last night yet we still pounded a round peg into a square hole.

Run the F away from them and stretch the field and burn the stacked box.

[Rattler]

(12-29-2015, 05:28 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: Occasionally running into an 8 man box is one thing.  Continually running at an 8 man box when your FB is out injured and the defense is selling out against the run is insanity.

HELLO!!!

[yellowxdiscipline]

(12-29-2015, 05:28 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: Occasionally running into an 8 man box is one thing.  Continually running at an 8 man box when your FB is out injured and the defense is selling out against the run is insanity.

Hue trying to squeeze water out of a rock.

[Rattler]

(12-29-2015, 05:31 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Hue trying to squeeze water out of a rock.

Hue outsmarts Hue.

"I know they got 8 stacked, they won't expect us to run straight into it 20 times"

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 05:28 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: Occasionally running into an 8 man box is one thing.  Continually running at an 8 man box when your FB is out injured and the defense is selling out against the run is insanity.

Watching the game right now. We are successfully running into the 8 man fronts. 3-4 yard runs. It's in the 3rd quarter.

3rd down offense hurt us in the second half. And our special teams were very average at best. Huber never flipped the field position. Their punter did.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2015, 05:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ok well we can make a wager on that if the opportunity presents itself.    I am confident because our team/staff/player fundamentals are solid.

Since we kicked off against the Cardinals they have gone 6-0 with wins over 3 playoff teams and we have gone 3-3, lost all 3 games we played against winning teams, and lost our starting QB.  Why you are so sure we have improved since then and they have taken a step back is beyond me.

The Cardinals just beat the Packers so badly that they took Aaron Rodgers out of the game.  I don't think it is insane to say the Cardinals would probably beat us again.  So what?

[bengal kitten uk]

(12-29-2015, 05:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Watching the game right now.  We are successfully running into the 8 man fronts.   3-4 yard runs.   It's in the 3rd quarter.  

3rd down offense hurt us in the second half.   And our special teams were very average at best.    Huber never flipped the field position.   Their punter did.

We had three successful runs in the 3rd Quarter, and one of those was a 3rd & 20 draw play:

1st & 10: Run for 0 yards

-- Offensive Holding --
2nd & 20: Run for 0 yards
3rd & 20: Run for 5 yards
4th & 15: Punt

1st & 10: Run for 8 yards
2nd & 2:  Run for 3 yards
1st & 10: Pass for 6 yards
2nd & 4: Run for 0 yards
3rd & 4: Incomplete deep shot to MLJ
4th & 4: Punt

1st & 10: Pass for 8 yards
2nd & 2: Run for 0 yards
3rd & 2: Run for 0 yards
4th & 2: Punt

[Rattler]

O-line went fetal in the 2nd half and Andre Smith was torched by their edge pass rushers.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 05:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Since we kicked off against the Cardinals they have gone 6-0 with wins over 3 playoff teams and we have gone 3-3, lost all 3 games we played against winning teams, and lost our starting QB.  Why you are so sure we have improved since we beat them and they have taken a step back is beyond me.

The Cardinals just beat the Packers so badly that they took Aaron Rodgers out of the game.  I don't think it is insane to say the Cardinals would probably beat us again.  So what?

We didn't have our full compliment of starters then and still took them to the end at their place.  

Our losses have come due to massive Personnel losses.    Difference vs Pitt was the two AJM turnovers.  

How would the cardinals fare in that stretch if they lost CP, Peterson, and Fitzgerald?   As far as GB, they are one of the most flawed teams in the league.    

It's only been 5 games.   They barely beat Zim in AZ.   When Zim was missing 3 major starters on defense.    We will see how they do vs the Seahawks.  

We are 3-2

My point is that you are not comparing apples to apples. In past years we had issues. I just don't see it in this team. Injuries will be the only downfall of these guys. This is a special team.

[ShowMeUrTDs]

(12-29-2015, 05:28 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: Occasionally running into an 8 man box is one thing.  Continually running at an 8 man box when your FB is out injured and the defense is selling out against the run is insanity.

.....especially with JB 32- J. Hill!!!

Thats right JB, Jeremy Hill has created a new NFL position "Jogging Back"

mmmm....Did anyone see how fast Von Miller ran him down from behind the line???

[OrlandoBengal]

(12-29-2015, 01:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When I referenced talk radio I am referring to the fans hatred for mike brown and anything he supports.    Local talk radio is exactly why we have an unsupportive fan base in this town.    Not saying it needs to be all roses and atta boys ....   But anyone who was here heard all the nonsense that Trumpy got started.  

Now we boo 8-0 teams.  Boo our Qb at a charity softball game.   Seriously we all need to have a word with ourselves when stuff like this goes on.

Let's be real.  Talk radio is not the reason the Brown family has a "testy" relationship with many people in Cincinnati and even within the fan base.  That can be attributed to the "lost decade", the frugality/cheapness of the team over that time period, the stadium deal, going on three decades without a playoff victory... the reasons are plentiful, but you can't blame talk radio.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2015, 05:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We didn't have our full compliment of starters then and still took them to the end at their place.  

Our losses have come due to massive Personnel losses.    Difference vs Pitt was the two AJM turnovers.  

How would the cardinals fare in that stretch if they lost CP, Peterson, and Fitzgerald?   As far as GB, they are one of the most flawed teams in the league.    

It's only been 5 games.   They barely beat Zim in AZ.   When Zim was missing 3 major starters on defense.    We will see how they do vs the Seahawks.  

We are 3-2

You're using so many ifs and buts that you may as well say the Bengals could beat the Cardinals because you won 77-0 in Tecmo Super Bowl. The NFL is designed so you can look at most games and come up with semi-plausible ways to change the outcome.

Our wins against the Chargers, Ravens, Seahawks, and Steelers weren't exactly unparalleled curb stompings, so I don't see why you are so intent on dismissing our close losses as "coulda been wins if we did it again" but keeping our close wins as sure things. Meh, to each his own. The Bengals should be 15-0 right now.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 05:53 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Let's be real.  Talk radio is not the reason the Brown family has a "testy" relationship with many people in Cincinnati and even within the fan base.  That can be attributed to the "lost decade", the frugality/cheapness of the team over that time period, the stadium deal, going on three decades without a playoff victory... the reasons are plentiful, but you can't blame talk radio.

Yeah I guess there was no one all over the radio waves bad mouthing the team during that lost decade. It was worse than listening to Rush Limbaugh during the Obama presidency. A decade of nonstop propaganda does have an affect. And now we see it with trouble selling out games, booing an undefeated team, etc.