J Hill's Problem.....

[corpjet]

I know we have exhausted this to no end but I heard yesterday while in Denver from a beat reporter that they fell his problem in the running game this year is getting handed the ball out of the shotgun. He thought J Hill was too indecisive and does to much tip toeing behind the line when given the ball in this formation.

I dont know if there are stats anywhere on his runs out of the shot gun vs with the QB under center but its an interesting take.

We often hear that QBs have trouble adjusting to not throwing out of the shotgun now this is the first I have heard of a running back not running as well out of it.

Thoughts?

[BritishBengal]

Like you said, this has been exhausted, everyone has been saying this all season.

[barkerja]

That's a good theory. Hill definitely isn't an elusive back, he's a bull that's made for punching through the hole. It'd be interesting to see the stats of Gio vs. Hill from just the shotgun.

[corpjet]

(12-29-2015, 06:36 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: Like you said, this has been exhausted, everyone has been saying this all season.

His problems have been exhausted but not the point that I made in the first post.........

[StLucieBengal]

Adrian Peterson also struggles from the shotgun. He says it's harder to see the cuts.

[BritishBengal]

(12-29-2015, 06:39 PM)corpjet Wrote: His problems have been exhausted but not the point that I made in the first post.........

About running out of shotgun? Dude, it's been talked about ad nauseam on here. We've all been saying how he runs far better out of I with Hewitt in at FB. He needs to meet the handoff at pace and make the obvious read. When he is in shotgun, he has no forward momentum and has to judge more where to make the cut. I think it is obvious from this season that isn't his game, or at least isn't yet.

[corpjet]

(12-29-2015, 06:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Adrian Peterson also struggles from the shotgun.   He says it's harder to see the cuts.

I hadn't heard that before, makes sense though esp when a future HOF says this....

So if this is the case with J Hill shouldn't Hue be curtailing his running plays with him to meet whats easier and more probable to be effective?!

[Rattler]

I think he'd find greater success in the box if he stopped dancing and just picked a crease and go.

He's not a finesse back like Gio who can afford a quick dance and make up for it with a burst of quickness.

Would love to see us with a mauler at FB who could punish the shit out of a D line and then have Gio burst by them.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 06:45 PM)corpjet Wrote: I hadn't heard that before, makes sense though esp when a future HOF says this....

So if this is the case with J Hill shouldn't Hue be curtailing his running plays with him to meet whats easier and more probable to be effective?!

They talked about it on SNF.   Said Norv had to adjust.   But they have zero receiving threats, which is a big difference than our situation. Last year we were forced to do that and we were successful.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-29-2015, 06:47 PM)Rattler Wrote: I think he'd find greater success in the box if he stopped dancing and just picked a crease and go.

He's not a finesse back like Gio who can afford a quick dance and make up for it with a burst of quickness.

Would love to see us with a mauler at FB who could punish the shit out of a D line and then have Gio burst by them.

I agree here. He is too patient. Just hit it and go.

[Since82]

(12-29-2015, 06:45 PM)corpjet Wrote: I hadn't heard that before, makes sense though esp when a future HOF says this....

On the other hand Jamaal Charles does well from the gun. Different backs have different strengths and weaknesses.

[MrRager]

(12-29-2015, 06:45 PM)corpjet Wrote: I hadn't heard that before, makes sense though esp when a future HOF says this....

So if this is the case with J Hill shouldn't Hue be curtailing his running plays with him to meet whats easier and more probable to be effective?!

Maybe with a backup QB we should change the offense a bit, but when Andy breaks out as a top three QB you do not bother to mess with that to appease a single RB. Especially when you have one who does run well out of the shotgun. 

[corpjet]

(12-29-2015, 06:50 PM)Since82 Wrote: On the other hand Jamaal Charles does well from the gun. Different backs have different strengths and weaknesses.

I think a lot of that comes from what style they played in college.......

[BFritz21]

I've been saying that over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over again.

It's especially true when they hand him the ball from the gun and he needs to run across the quarterback's face to the other side of the line to hit the hole because running horizontally and finding creases isn't what he's good at, he's good at being handed the ball deep, running vertically, hitting a hole, making one cut, either before or after he gets through the hole, and being gone.

I don't see how the coaches aren't seeing that.

It also made me mad when we were in short yardage or the red zone and tried to run Gio between the tackles for tough yards because that's not what he does.

[gobobro]

In no particular order, I think Hill's issues stem from:

1. More runs this year without Hewitt leading the way (He's been in a lot of single back sets)
2. The line isn't as strong this year after both Whit and Smith have lost weight to handle speed rushers in the pass game.
3. It's a gut reaction, but I think Hill had too much success as a rookie. I think he maybe thought it was easy, and didn't have a great off and pre season.

[Stonyhands]

(12-29-2015, 06:33 PM)corpjet Wrote: I know we have exhausted this to no end but I heard yesterday while in Denver from a beat reporter that they fell his problem in the running game this year is getting handed the ball out of the shotgun.  He thought J Hill was too indecisive and does to much tip toeing behind the line when given the ball in this formation.

I dont know if there are stats anywhere on his runs out of the shot gun vs with the QB under center but its an interesting take.  

We often hear that QBs have trouble adjusting to not throwing out of the shotgun now this is the first I have heard of a running back not running as well out of it.

Thoughts?

I think a big problem with Hill is the way Hue draws up his blocking scheme.  Hill is usually a one cut then uphill runner.  Problem is that Hue pulls all his backside blockers and the defenders key this and everything gets jammed up where we are trying to run.  The backside defenders always go unblocked and while Hill is waiting for a hole to open he gets tackled from the unblocked defenders for a loss way too often.  

Hue is a terrible OC.  The amount of talent we have and he runs so many gimmicky plays when we should be able to line up our 11 and beat the 11 in front of us.  With a healthy Eifert, Jones, Sanu, and Green we see games where some of these guys don't even get targeted at all for large periods of time.  We've thrown away how many downs on passes to our backup tackle for Pete sake.  How many times is he going to telegraph a throw to Gio?  

As much as they were committing to the run and pass rush, how many true RB screens did we throw?  Why didn't we run the misdirection TE screen?  

Hue is terrible at making adjustments.  That guy just keeps calling the same damn plays over and over expecting different results as if it's one players missed assignments.  No Hue its not ***** working quit calling it!

[corpjet]

(12-29-2015, 07:26 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: I think a big problem with Hill is the way Hue draws up his blocking scheme.  Hill is usually a one cut then uphill runner.  Problem is that Hue pulls all his backside blockers and the defenders key this and everything gets jammed up where we are trying to run.  The backside defenders always go unblocked and while Hill is waiting for a hole to open he gets tackled from the unblocked defenders for a loss way too often.  

Hue is a terrible OC.  The amount of talent we have and he runs so many gimmicky plays when we should be able to line up our 11 and beat the 11 in front of us.  With a healthy Eifert, Jones, Sanu, and Green we see games where some of these guys don't even get targeted at all for large periods of time.  We've thrown away how many downs on passes to our backup tackle for Pete sake.  How many times is he going to telegraph a throw to Gio?  

As much as they were committing to the run and pass rush, how many true RB screens did we throw?  Why didn't we run the misdirection TE screen?  

Hue is terrible at making adjustments.  That guy just keeps calling the same damn plays over and over expecting different results as if it's one players missed assignments.  No Hue its not ***** working quit calling it!

The last point is key, Hue isn't good at adjustments....this was clearly shown last night when Wade Philips when to more of a zone D and Hue didn't throw the counter punch......

[reuben.ahmed]

We saw the stat earlier in the year where Gio was one of the best at minimum of yards run to gain 1 yard and Hill was one of the worst. If anything that stat should have been reversed, but seems like that is why Gio is typically successful and Hill has not been.

[gobobro]

(12-29-2015, 07:26 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: I think a big problem with Hill is the way Hue draws up his blocking scheme.  Hill is usually a one cut then uphill runner.  Problem is that Hue pulls all his backside blockers and the defenders key this and everything gets jammed up where we are trying to run.  The backside defenders always go unblocked and while Hill is waiting for a hole to open he gets tackled from the unblocked defenders for a loss way too often.

If you recall, Hue didn't really do that until Pittsburgh smoked us with it last year. After that, Hue added it to our playbook and had some success. 

Quote:Hue is a terrible OC.  The amount of talent we have and he runs so many gimmicky plays when we should be able to line up our 11 and beat the 11 in front of us.  With a healthy Eifert, Jones, Sanu, and Green we see games where some of these guys don't even get targeted at all for large periods of time.  We've thrown away how many downs on passes to our backup tackle for Pete sake.  How many times is he going to telegraph a throw to Gio?

I agree that he gets too cute at times, but to say he is a terrible OC just isn't true. Hue's a good OC who gets caught up in the moment more than I'd like... If he was a terrible OC, we wouldn't have owned the first half of this game the way we did.

Quote:As much as they were committing to the run and pass rush, how many true RB screens did we throw?  Why didn't we run the misdirection TE screen?  

Hue is terrible at making adjustments.  That guy just keeps calling the same damn plays over and over expecting different results as if it's one players missed assignments.  No Hue its not ***** working quit calling it!

I don't think that was the case. I think he blew the first series of the second half by waiting to see what adjustments the Broncos were going to make. After that, it felt like he kept the reigns on AJM a bit too long. That really messed us up. When AJM finally had the chance to go deep, I think he left some easy first downs on the field with some deep incompletions... Ah well. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2015, 07:38 PM)gobobro Wrote: If you recall, Hue didn't really do that until Pittsburgh smoked us with it last year. After that, Hue added it to our playbook and had some success. 


I agree that he gets too cute at times, but to say he is a terrible OC just isn't true. Hue's a good OC who gets caught up in the moment more than I'd like... If he was a terrible OC, we wouldn't have owned the first half of this game the way we did.


I don't think that was the case. I think he blew the first series of the second half by waiting to see what adjustments the Broncos were going to make. After that, it felt like he kept the reigns on AJM a bit too long. That really messed us up. When AJM finally had the chance to go deep, I think he left some easy first downs on the field with some deep incompletions... Ah well. 

You're exactly right in my opinion.