Damming Analysis of Cincinnati's O Line

[BengalB]

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2023/11/17/23965976/bengals-offensive-line-damning-analysis-o-line-cincinnati

They're not wrong.

[*Synric*]

[BengalsLUFC]

Not that it matters now but I wonder if Collins would have been healthy at this point to replace Volson?

Just been watching videos all evening of Burrow getting the ball off then getting whacked like our guys don’t play it out.

It’s amazing really that he’s managed 2 and a half season without getting an injury caused by the shitshow in front of him, he was living a charmed life and now it’s come to bite us on the arse.

Like the Steelers fans were chanting fire Canada I hope we do the same for Pollack.

[CincinnatiKid]

(11-18-2023, 12:40 AM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: Not that it matters now but I wonder if Collins would have been healthy at this point to replace Volson?

Just been watching videos all evening of Burrow getting the ball off then getting whacked like our guys don’t play it out.

It’s amazing really that he’s managed 2 and a half season without getting an injury caused by the shitshow in front of him, he was living a charmed life and now it’s come to bite us on the arse.

Like the Steelers fans were chanting fire Canada I hope we do the same for Pollack.

I don’t blame Pollack. This is a Zac Taylor and Duke Tobin problem. Pollack is just a symptom of the problem 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-18-2023, 12:40 AM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: Not that it matters now but I wonder if Collins would have been healthy at this point to replace Volson?

Just been watching videos all evening of Burrow getting the ball off then getting whacked like our guys don’t play it out.

It’s amazing really that he’s managed 2 and a half season without getting an injury caused by the shitshow in front of him, he was living a charmed life and now it’s come to bite us on the arse.

Like the Steelers fans were chanting fire Canada I hope we do the same for Pollack.

?

2021 Season
Dislocated Finger (Chargers)
Knee Sprain (Chiefs)
MCL Sprain (Rams, SB)

[BengalsLUFC]

(11-18-2023, 12:57 AM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: I don’t blame Pollack. This is a Zac Taylor and Duke Tobin problem. Pollack is just a symptom of the problem 

We’ve got 3 Super Bowl winners a 1st round pick and a make a wish winner as our OL.

Burrow is taking as many hits as he ever did and we’ve spent millions it should be vastly improved from 2021 and it just isn’t good enough.

Taylor won’t get fired for the next decade Franks head is on the chopping block if he amazes if he’s here next season.

[puddycat]

Seems not to b e an indictment of Pollack. Seems we have a line that outperforms their talent. I don't believe that.. but that would be one interpretation of that data. Looks like a bigger indictment of Tobin.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-18-2023, 12:57 AM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: I don’t blame Pollack. This is a Zac Taylor and Duke Tobin problem. Pollack is just a symptom of the problem 

I’ve been saying that for years. People want a quick fix though. They think merely replacing the coach will be enough. It won’t. Not until Duke fundamentally changes how he drafts (and assembles) OL.

[BengalsLUFC]

(11-18-2023, 01:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: ?

2021 Season
Dislocated Finger (Chargers)
Knee Sprain (Chiefs)
MCL Sprain (Rams, SB)

I meant season ending but you’re right he’s still banged up more than most QB’s in the league.

[*bfine32*]

(11-18-2023, 01:02 AM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: We’ve got 3 Super Bowl winners a 1st round pick and a make a wish winner as our OL.

Burrow is taking as many hits as he ever did and we’ve spent millions it should be vastly improved from 2021 and it just isn’t good enough.

Taylor won’t get fired for the next decade Franks head is on the chopping block if he amazes if he’s here next season.

I know funny. This is funny. 

[J24]

(11-18-2023, 01:03 AM)puddycat Wrote: Seems not to b e an indictment of Pollack.  Seems we have a line that outperforms their talent.  I don't believe that.. but that would be one interpretation of that data.  Looks like a bigger indictment of Tobin.

(11-18-2023, 01:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’ve been saying that for years. People want a quick fix though. They think merely replacing the coach will be enough. It won’t. Not until Duke fundamentally changes how he drafts (and assembles) OL.

What puddycat and Nicomo said!

This is on Duke more than anyone else. He's the one that drafts players and signs players 

[Joelist]

It's just more junk from a junk site. Sorry I've never respected Cincyjungle.

We've had underwhelming results from three different OL coaches, two different head coaches and three different OCs (I think). The issue is not that OL must be athletic according to some scale or that "(insert coach name) sucks" but more that it's been a LONG time since the Bengals had an actual offensive philosophy that guided the scheme AND was aimed at playing to the strengths of our players.

It won't matter how athletic or blue chip a lineman is if the system used sets them up to fail. Ours does, it is a BAD system to be OL in. We are way off balance between run and pass, our plays always develop too slowly, we change schemes frequently midseason and we STILL have the problem of telegraphing the play.

The current line has strengths - among them is power. So play to that. Get under center more and more old fashioned power runs. Establish the threat of running and it forces respect for play action. The RB doesn't need to be a jet just to not go down on first contact. Remember Rudi? Not a burner but effective BECAUSE he didn't go down easy. We just had a game where we embarrassed an elite D a few weeks ago by actually doing these things and using their own tendencies against them. We played to our strong points and used their tendencies against them.

[CincinnatiKid]

(11-18-2023, 01:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’ve been saying that for years. People want a quick fix though. They think merely replacing the coach will be enough. It won’t. Not until Duke fundamentally changes how he drafts (and assembles) OL.

Correct.   Duke has proven he can’t fix the o line.  See BUSTS below to name a few 

• Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M.
• Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon.
  

[Brownshoe]

(11-18-2023, 02:14 AM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: Correct.   Duke has proven he can’t fix the o line.  See BUSTS below to name a few 

• Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M.
• Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon.
  

Round 1, pick No. 21: Billy Price, C

Round 1, Pick No. 11: Jonah Williams, T (not too bad but that was a bad OL class)

Round 2, Pick No. 46: Jackson Carman, G

[*michaelsean*]

(11-18-2023, 02:10 AM)Joelist Wrote: It's just more junk from a junk site. Sorry I've never respected Cincyjungle.

We've had underwhelming results from three different OL coaches, two different head coaches and three different OCs (I think). The issue is not that OL must be athletic according to some scale or that "(insert coach name) sucks" but more that it's been a LONG time since the Bengals had an actual offensive philosophy that guided the scheme AND was aimed at playing to the strengths of our players.

It won't matter how athletic or blue chip a lineman is if the system used sets them up to fail. Ours does, it is a BAD system to be OL in. We are way off balance between run and pass, our plays always develop too slowly, we change schemes frequently midseason and we STILL have the problem of telegraphing the play.

The current line has strengths - among them is power. So play to that. Get under center more and more old fashioned power runs. Establish the threat of running and it forces respect for play action. The RB doesn't need to be a jet just to not go down on first contact. Remember Rudi? Not a burner but effective BECAUSE he didn't go down easy. We just had a game where we embarrassed an elite D a few weeks ago by actually doing these things and using their own tendencies against them. We played to our strong points and used their tendencies against them.

Mixon was killing it between the tackles last night. Even Andy Reid will run it down your throat if you can’t stop it. I don’t know if it’s Zac or Joe, but somebody needs to change. QB gets hit less because he’s passing fewer times plus they can’t just go straight for the QB when they have to play to stop the run which results in more time. It’s really insane to watch.

[Whatever]

(11-18-2023, 12:28 AM)BengalB Wrote: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2023/11/17/23965976/bengals-offensive-line-damning-analysis-o-line-cincinnati

They're not wrong.

What does this even indicate?  Just based on where teams fall, there are as many teams with below average RAS and above average PFF grades as there are teams with above average RAS and below average PFF grades?  

Personally, RAS is important when evaluating draft prospects to make a determination on whether they can cut it in the league.  Our OL has 4 vets that have proven in other places that they can perform at average starter to Pro Bowl level and one sad joke of a 4th round pick.  This is why you have to start with Pollack.  4 of 5 starters you know for a fact can play better.  Even Williams was playing better under Turner.  

The FO, Turner, and Burrow will have to get together and make some philosophical changes this off-season.  If we're going to be a more run heavy team, Joe is going to have to get comfortable under center, the FO needs to invest in RB's and a replacement for Volson that can pull and get 2nd level blocks, and Zac needs to get an OL coach/run coordinator that actually knows what he's doing.  Joe has to get into his head that he can't keep taking unnecessary abuse.  It's ok to run, but he needs to slide in most cases.  It's ok to throw it away on 3rd down instead of taking a sack trying to keep the play alive.  

[*Synric*]

(11-18-2023, 04:32 AM)Whatever Wrote: What does this even indicate?  Just based on where teams fall, there are as many teams with below average RAS and above average PFF grades as there are teams with above average RAS and below average PFF grades?  

Personally, RAS is important when evaluating draft prospects to make a determination on whether they can cut it in the league.  Our OL has 4 vets that have proven in other places that they can perform at average starter to Pro Bowl level and one sad joke of a 4th round pick.  This is why you have to start with Pollack.  4 of 5 starters you know for a fact can play better.  Even Williams was playing better under Turner.  

It's not about any one of those players individually its the lack of athleticism as a group and it shows up on tape. Bengals run alot of Duo and different variations of Inside Zone both vertical down hill runs. A major requirement of those two run plays is second level blocking either firing off and getting to the linebacker or a combination block then climbing to the linebackers. The Bengals also like to run traps from those two plays which is essentially a OL bypassing the DL and going straight for the second level while another OL or TE pulls back around to block the DL that came through the gap. 

Right now the second level blocking has been lets say inconsistent and they rarely try to pull their lineman out in space on sweeps or pitches and when they do its often a TFL.

[Sled21]

(11-18-2023, 02:14 AM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: Correct.   Duke has proven he can’t fix the o line.  See BUSTS below to name a few 

• Round 1, pick No. 21: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M.
• Round 2, pick No. 53: Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon.
  

Oggie was drafted BECAUSE of his so-called athleticism, and we all saw how that worked out.

Fisher doesn't really count, he developed a heart problem, had to drop weight and tried to convert to TE. If his heart condition did not emerge, he may have had a different career, we will never know. 

[Destro]

But the Bengals Board told me O-line is not that big a deal and they are better.