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There is no need to have a divide amongst us regarding those that want to win some games and those that are ok with losing out.
I can’t speak for all of us ok with losing the rest of the games, but I can assure you that my thought process has zero to do with any indictment on Zac Taylor as some have suggested. My outlook is 100% common sense to me.
We were not a great team with Burrow this year, the Wild Card would be difficult to attain having no tie breakers other than Buffalo. Without Burrow we likely will not be close to being in contention.
The schedule next season is one reason why losing out can be beneficial.
Losing out offers a 4th Round schedule – we know how close the #1 & #2 seeding can be, a single loss could be the difference. Playing the Giants instead of the Eagles could be a deciding factor.
The draft is the most important benefit of losing out. Assuming we are NOT in contention, any wins could be damaging for years to come. One more win in 2019 and we likely do not have Burrow.
Some of have argued the draft is a “crapshoot”, which is true overall, but the higher teams draft the more likely they obtain a quality player.
Some have argued that we are not good at drafting, which is true – especially for the trenches, but we do better drafting much higher in each round.
We are currently slated to draft 18th. We could easily jump 9 spots and possibly 11 to the #7 pick.
Losing out puts us in contention for major impact players for the next 5 years:
The #1 TE, Brock Boward, is he a game changer? Do we have a hole at TE?
The #1 DT, Jer’Zhan Newton, would interior pass rush help? Do we need a Reader replacement?
The #2 WR, is Tee leaving?
A Top 5 OT, we are likely losing Jonah.
It is not just the 1st Rounders, it’s all the way down the draft. Tee Higgins & Logan Wilson instead of Jackson Carman and Zach Carter.
Teams we could leapfrog in the draft:
Saints
Falcons
Bucs
Colts
Broncos
Chargers
Raiders
Bills
Commanders
Packers
Rams
I do appreciate those that want to win as much as possible, but this season could be the catalyst for a great run next year. Losing Joe to the ACL was horrendous, but we got Chase and went to the Super Bowl.
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Looking at our remaining schedule there's not a game that sys win to me, at all. The final couple games can always be a little wonky depending on where those teams are at? Resting starters or whatever? But given our situation I'd say we're going to be hard pressed to eek out a win anyways?
I'm all for losing out and building for next season. And we have a lot of building to do.
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I think we are forgetting a major issue ahead is Bengals and Cincinnati negotiations for Bengals to stay here. 5-12 will hurt those negotiations and the fan base as a whole, besides just breeding a bad culture of losing... the NFL draft is deep enough and good enough regardless where we draft to improve your team, it is less about where you draft but how you draft that normally is the deciding factor of being a championship team, if that was not the case how can we explain the Bengals of the 90s , Browns of 2000s etc...
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I don’t know who needs to hear this.
But an earlier draft pick isn’t going to replace our anticipated losses in this FA.
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I'll almost never support a tank, certainly not in November. I'm glad it hasn't ruined the NFL the way it has other leagues (namely the NBA). And that's saying a lot coming from me because in many ways I'm more a draft fan than a football fan; I just love everything about it and I follow it year-round. But I also try to see the big picture: if two-thirds of the league started losing on purpose (as you could argue they should since they have no realistic chance at the SB), it would pillage the entertainment value of NFL football more broadly, maybe irrevokably.
I'm super excited for the draft. But it makes no difference to me whether we lose the next six games. We'll get an outstanding draft slot regardless- one certainly a lot higher than we deserve.
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I get the value of a high pick, seeing as we needed almost every unlucky bounce we got to land Burrow in the first place. But with that being said, if we go 1-6 or 0-7 we have to admit the New Dey stuff may just all about Burrow. It's not ZT, it's not about MB stepping back, it's not about MB's great great great great grandkids taking over the social media pages and so on and so forth.
So far the ZT era has had two speeds:
1. Burrow is out there and we are the best we've ever been
2. Burrow isn't out there and it's the 90s
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(11-19-2023, 02:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get the value of a high pick, seeing as we needed almost every unlucky bounce we got to land Burrow in the first place. But with that being said, if we go 1-6 or 0-7 we have to admit the New Dey stuff may just all about Burrow. It's not ZT, it's not about MB stepping back, it's not about MB's great great great great grandkids taking over the social media pages and so on and so forth.
So far the ZT era has had two speeds:
1. Burrow is out there and we are the best we've ever been
2. Burrow isn't out there and it's the 90s
The team is good enough to win if they invested in a back up QB. Don't think it has anything to do with the team.
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(11-19-2023, 03:03 PM)QueenCity Wrote: The team is good enough to win if they invested in a back up QB. Don't think it has anything to do with the team.
a back up level qb isnt gonna succeed with a sub par pass protecting o-line and a terrible innefficient run game
It's because you are of such profound wisdom, Frank Booth. - SunsetBengal
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Yep. We can use more talent in the draft.
The con is we're several players away and have a bunch of vets that are free agents too.
It's going to get interesting.
On drafting a te high...never say never, but most of the white tes weren't top 10 picks.
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(11-19-2023, 02:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get the value of a high pick, seeing as we needed almost every unlucky bounce we got to land Burrow in the first place. But with that being said, if we go 1-6 or 0-7 we have to admit the New Dey stuff may just all about Burrow. It's not ZT, it's not about MB stepping back, it's not about MB's great great great great grandkids taking over the social media pages and so on and so forth.
So far the ZT era has had two speeds:
1. Burrow is out there and we are the best we've ever been
2. Burrow isn't out there and it's the 90s
I think some of us realized that for a while.
Our offense is Burrow, Tee, and Chase making spectacular plays. We don't have some crazy good scheme. It works because of talent. And with Tee struggling, it never really fully worked this year.
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(11-19-2023, 03:24 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: a back up level qb isnt gonna succeed with a sub par pass protecting o-line and a terrible innefficient run game
I meant just a couple games in general.. not lead us to the playoffs.
My point was to the poster that this isn't the 90's the team is good and isn't totally just on Joe
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So as it stands the shopping list in offseason is:
Guard, DTackle, OTackle, RB, CB.
The draft is not strong in all these areas so we pretty much will need Free Agency also. We desperately need a DT who can bring the heat to the QB also and none in this draft really fit that bill. Guard we can get in 1 or 2. Ditto OT. RB is iffy - we NEED a big back who doesn't' go down on first contact and I'm not sure that will be there in Rd 3. CB I think Free Agency supplies because this is not so much a high end starter as a good, smart, experienced DB to help the rotation.
These said, unless we fix the tackling and plain lack of intelligence on the defense and build an actual coherent scheme on offense that plays to the strengths of our players even filling the shopping list won't necessarily get us where we want to go.
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(11-19-2023, 02:13 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: I don’t know who needs to hear this.
But an earlier draft pick isn’t going to replace our anticipated losses in this FA.
Winning meaningless games this year won’t offset that loss either. What good comes of winning a few more games? A moral win? These ar professional athletes who made it to the SB and afc championship and also know their success all starts with their leader, Joe Burrow.
And I would argue a higher draft pick could offset the losses in FA. Just take Tee. Grabbing a top WR COULD offset Higgins. Or a top RT could offset Jonah. Not sure how you don’t see that?
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(11-19-2023, 02:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I think we are forgetting a major issue ahead is Bengals and Cincinnati negotiations for Bengals to stay here. 5-12 will hurt those negotiations and the fan base as a whole, besides just breeding a bad culture of losing... the NFL draft is deep enough and good enough regardless where we draft to improve your team, it is less about where you draft but how you draft that normally is the deciding factor of being a championship team, if that was not the case how can we explain the Bengals of the 90s , Browns of 2000s etc...
The record will have ZERO impact on negotiations, NFL people understand the impact of losing Burrow. The majority of the knowledgeable fanbase understands as well.
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People who want an extra couple wins just want their last few weeks of Sunday football better...
This is always an argument about short term gratification and long term gratification.
Making the playoffs or moving higher up in the draft does nothing for the 2023 Bengals.
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(11-19-2023, 02:39 PM)tms Wrote: I'll almost never support a tank, certainly not in November. I'm glad it hasn't ruined the NFL the way it has other leagues (namely the NBA). And that's saying a lot coming from me because in many ways I'm more a draft fan than a football fan; I just love everything about it and I follow it year-round. But I also try to see the big picture: if two-thirds of the league started losing on purpose (as you could argue they should since they have no realistic chance at the SB), it would pillage the entertainment value of NFL football more broadly, maybe irrevokably.
I'm super excited for the draft. But it makes no difference to me whether we lose the next six games. We'll get an outstanding draft slot regardless- one certainly a lot higher than we deserve.
Im not suggesting any team tank, I'm saying things could be better if we lose the rest of the games. And draft slots can be crucial, the difference in Garrett Wilson or Kadarius Toney. Of course we take John Ross instead of Mahomes, so who knows....
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Not a lot of faith in pick between #5 and #32. Some "injured project that will need to develop" seems be be what we get besides the top 5 picks.
Like a teenage girl driving a Ferrari.
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(11-19-2023, 02:13 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: I don’t know who needs to hear this.
But an earlier draft pick isn’t going to replace our anticipated losses in this FA.
If we pick an excellent DT to replace Reader that would be great, same with an OT for Jonah.
It is stupid to not understand that EVERY team in the NFL has losses each year and the draft is a replenishing tool. The better players drafted the more likely the team will improve.
Our irreplaceable losses this FA, oh my goodness, my keyboard is awash with tears as I type this:
Reader
Jonah
Tee
Chido
Irv Smith
Tupou
Scharping
Sample
I guess the team is doomed losing so many Hall of Fame players?
Chido's replacement is already playing.
The majority of you hated Jonah.
Tee could likely stay.
DJ is a miss but his age is an issue, we will see.
The rest couldnt start on a good team.
Oh I left off Cody Ford and Wilcox, you are so correct about our demise due to losing these Pro Bowlers. Brilliant contribution.
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Don't look at me Kevin yelled at me for talking about draft prospects during the Super Bowl run.
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