The NFL is investigating why the Bengals did not list Joe Burrow on the injury report

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-19-2023, 01:57 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Maybe the proof is in the plays. Burrow seemed to be in shotgun from the start against the Ravens. I know we use shotgun an absurdly amount of time but it seems like he was under center more as his calf started to heal. I could be wrong but during the win streak he was under center more and more each game. Then came the Balt game where he was in shotgun from the start. I will have to go back to the Houston game and see at what point he started going back to shotgun.

I was telling my son during the Ravens game that Burrow didn’t have any zip on the ball. I thought the calf started acting up again.

First play of the game was under centre, IIRC.

We went under centre the usual amount

(11-20-2023, 11:03 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Go back to the long TD to Chase against Texans. Rich Gannon was commenting how Burrow was grimacing he said at the time he may have reaggravated that calf muscle. Burrow played nearly 4 quarters with a fractured wrist and played halfway decent to where he no longer could tolerate the pain anymore that is more than likely the truth and the actual truth will never see the light of day.

Rich Gannon hasn't commentated for 2-3 years.

[TKUHL]

(11-20-2023, 12:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Again, someone tell me what the Bengals organization had to gain by attempting to hide an injury. If he was injured, he would be on the injury report and listed as a game time decision. Hiding an injury gains a team nothing. This whole thing is stupid and only being looked at because of Portnoy losing a large bet then whining about it.

1. Gambling
2. If the wrist was on the injury report, I would assume teams would test it. We don’t know what goes on under the pile sometimes. I don’t think this was the case. I honestly think it was more of a non issue that was made worse by the Clowney sack.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-20-2023, 12:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Even more absurd considering Burrow was a full participant in practice all week and played like himself up in the game until the injury. 

Like this "investigation" is literally happening because of a stupid picture.

How sad is it that we consider our $55m/yr QB to be playing like himself if he has a 5.94 YPA?

Previous 3 games...
8.68 YPA
7.91 YPA
8.84 YPA

His 64.71% completion was also the lowest he had since Week 3, he had a 74.11% the previous 5 weeks.

- - - - - - - - -

There's talk that he might have hurt his wrist really early in the Houston game first drive. Adrenaline keeps you going that drive for the TD, but then you sit down on the bench and it gets some time to cool down and you then proceed to not score again until you get some halftime treatment. 

Granted the Bengals offense also just goes quiet for 30+ minutes at a time, so who knows. 

I just know the Bengals deleting the stuff with him wearing whatever he was wearing immediately makes them look guilty, even if you did think that a guy being seen wearing a thing on his wrist for the first time ever and then hurting that exact same wrist that day was just a coincidence.

[BleedNOrange]

Can someone explain exactly what teams are obligated to report on injury reports? It's week 11. Every single player in the NFL has bumps/bruises. Burrow was never limited in practice throughout the week, warmed up before the game just fine, and played nearly a half before the injury. Are they really trying to say that Burrow was injured but we forced him fully practice to hide it? So we're not going to let the franchise rest and try to heal but force him to practice and risk further injury? Seems dumb.

If that is remotely true, that is more on the NFL for stupid Thursday night games. That leaves no time to rest and practice and showing NFL doesn't really care about player safety.

[Bengalitis]

the NFL will punish the Bengals & Burrow for their investment they've put into the Bengals.. ha!

[Bengalbug]

(11-21-2023, 04:06 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How sad is it that we consider our $55m/yr QB to be playing like himself if he has a 5.94 YPA?

Previous 3 games...
8.68 YPA
7.91 YPA
8.84 YPA

His 64.71% completion was also the lowest he had since Week 3, he had a 74.11% the previous 5 weeks.

- - - - - - - - -

There's talk that he might have hurt his wrist really early in the Houston game first drive. Adrenaline keeps you going that drive for the TD, but then you sit down on the bench and it gets some time to cool down and you then proceed to not score again until you get some halftime treatment. 

Granted the Bengals offense also just goes quiet for 30+ minutes at a time, so who knows. 

I just know the Bengals deleting the stuff with him wearing whatever he was wearing immediately makes them look guilty, even if you did think that a guy being seen wearing a thing on his wrist for the first time ever and then hurting that exact same wrist that day was just a coincidence.

You have to take who they are playing into account here… a top 5 defense as well. He was playing above the level of opposing QBs at the time of him exiting the game. Even the best QBs are going to struggle against the best defenses.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2023, 04:06 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How sad is it that we consider our $55m/yr QB to be playing like himself if he has a 5.94 YPA?

Previous 3 games...
8.68 YPA
7.91 YPA
8.84 YPA

His 64.71% completion was also the lowest he had since Week 3, he had a 74.11% the previous 5 weeks.

- - - - - - - - -

There's talk that he might have hurt his wrist really early in the Houston game first drive. Adrenaline keeps you going that drive for the TD, but then you sit down on the bench and it gets some time to cool down and you then proceed to not score again until you get some halftime treatment. 

Granted the Bengals offense also just goes quiet for 30+ minutes at a time, so who knows. 

I just know the Bengals deleting the stuff with him wearing whatever he was wearing immediately makes them look guilty, even if you did think that a guy being seen wearing a thing on his wrist for the first time ever and then hurting that exact same wrist that day was just a coincidence.

Hard to say....for starters, they were playing a top 5 defense, and he may have worn it before and not been photographed with it. Either way, there is film of him throwing in warmups, in practice, and the game. He didn't look gimped to me.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2023, 10:25 AM)BleedNOrange Wrote: Can someone explain exactly what teams are obligated to report on injury reports?  It's week 11.  Every single player in the NFL has bumps/bruises.  Burrow was never limited in practice throughout the week, warmed up before the game just fine, and played nearly a half before the injury.  Are they really trying to say that Burrow was injured but we forced him fully practice to hide it?  So we're not going to let the franchise rest and try to heal but force him to practice and risk further injury?  Seems dumb.

If that is remotely true, that is more on the NFL for stupid Thursday night games.  That leaves no time to rest and practice and showing NFL doesn't really care about player safety.

I agree....if they're going to continue these lame TNF games, they should do it after both teams' bye week.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-21-2023, 10:46 AM)Wyche Wrote: Hard to say....for starters, they were playing a top 5 defense, and he may have worn it before and not been photographed with it. Either way, there is film of him throwing in warmups, in practice, and the game. He didn't look gimped to me.

We also saw Hendrickson play with a hyperextended knee, saw Higgins a few weeks ago play with a fractured rib... heck, Burrow in 2021 played with a dislocated finger and no missed games from it.

Can't both call our guy tough and then also say he wasn't lying dead on the field so he clearly was fine. 

I just think between the coverup of erasing it from the internet and the sheer timing "coincidence" of it, I personally am dubious that he was 100% fine and he didn't feel something a little nagging.

Not saying it's guaranteed he already had something bugging his wrist, but I feel like if he was any other team's QB with the exact same set of circumstances around him, our collective noses would be willing to picking up a bit more of that bovine excrement smell that is drifting around this situation.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-21-2023, 02:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We also saw Hendrickson play with a hyperextended knee, saw Higgins a few weeks ago play with a fractured rib... heck, Burrow in 2021 played with a dislocated finger and no missed games from it.

Can't both call our guy tough and then also say he wasn't lying dead on the field so he clearly was fine. 

I just think between the coverup of erasing it from the internet and the sheer timing "coincidence" of it, I personally am dubious that he was 100% fine and he didn't feel something a little nagging.

Not saying it's guaranteed he already had something bugging his wrist, but I feel like if he was any other team's QB with the exact same set of circumstances around him, our collective noses would be willing to picking up a bit more of that bovine excrement smell that is drifting around this situation.

My question is what is the definition of an injury? Lots of players have hurts. If you aren’t limited then is it an injury or a hurt if it was anything at all.

[burreauxs]

(11-22-2023, 08:11 AM)michaelsean Wrote: My question is what is the definition of an injury?  Lots of players have hurts.  If you aren’t limited then is it an injury or a hurt if it was anything at all.

Imo pain is not an injury. You can have aches and pains due to overuse but that does not mean you are injured. Nociceptive pain is injury-based pain but that's only one type of pain. For example, nerve pain due to increased neural tension (lack of your nerve's ability to stretch) is not an "injury" per se but can require treatment for symptom modulation. Every NFL player gets symptom modulation treatments (cupping, soft tissue, contrast baths, dry needling, theragun, stretching, etc) and aren't put on the injury report because of it. If you're having some pain but you're not limited in practice and are able to be a full go for a game, then why would you need to be on the report? To me, an injury implies actual structural damage that may prevent you from participating. Pain does not necessarily prevent you from participating. Like with Trey after hyperextending his knee- nothing was damaged/injured, so it was just a matter of how much pain he could tolerate in order to participate. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2023, 02:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We also saw Hendrickson play with a hyperextended knee, saw Higgins a few weeks ago play with a fractured rib... heck, Burrow in 2021 played with a dislocated finger and no missed games from it.

Can't both call our guy tough and then also say he wasn't lying dead on the field so he clearly was fine. 

I just think between the coverup of erasing it from the internet and the sheer timing "coincidence" of it, I personally am dubious that he was 100% fine and he didn't feel something a little nagging.

Not saying it's guaranteed he already had something bugging his wrist, but I feel like if he was any other team's QB with the exact same set of circumstances around him, our collective noses would be willing to picking up a bit more of that bovine excrement smell that is drifting around this situation.

An orthopedic surgeon has since put out an article detailing how the injury was caused by the hit from Clowney. It's on SI. My thoughts are: he was a full participant in practice and there is video of that practice on which he is slinging the pill around without any grimaces of pain or any bad/"weak" throws. And warmups and game footage. I saw no sign of injury prior to the Clowney play. Nothing burger. However, I did see a pic of ol Roger Rooney with a porn star in Detroit....

[BleedNOrange]

I'm not a lawyer but I tried digging into what teams are obligated to report.  It is very gray.

Per the NFL's 2017 Personnel (Injury) Report Policy
"All players who have reportable injuries must be listed on the Practice Report, even if the player takes all the reps in practice, and even if the team is certain that he will play in the upcoming game...Other injuries may be reportable because of their effect upon the player’s performance despite his continuing availability to the club."

so then the question is what is "reportable".  As I mentioned in a previous post, it is week 11.  Every single players has bumps and bruises at this point in the season.

PFF defined "reportable" as:
"A reportable injury is considered any injury that causes a player to miss a game, prevents them from finishing a game, or prevents them from completing their normal practice workload."
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/what-is-nfl-injury-policy-rules-and-procedures-for-nfl-teams/

Burrow was a full participant in practice (completed normal practice workload), had not prior wrist injury reported in the season, warmed up just fine, and played 1.5 quarters with no signs of an issue.

It is entirely possible that Burrow hurt his wrist in practice and just gutted it out since he is tough and maybe didn't think much of it.  Then didn't tell anyone so there was nothing for the organization to report.

[jj22]

They should just do what Houston and Pats do and list 30+ people on the injury report. That'll keep them safe from scrutiny and allow for a little advantage since opposing teams will never know if someone is really injured, hurt, or just has a scratch on their knee. Better to be safe then sorry.

[reuben.ahmed]

(11-22-2023, 08:11 AM)michaelsean Wrote: My question is what is the definition of an injury?  Lots of players have hurts.  If you aren’t limited then is it an injury or a hurt if it was anything at all.

When I get up in the AM and say ow because herniated disc is pushing against sciatic nerve

[reuben.ahmed]

(11-22-2023, 12:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: They should just do what Houston and Pats do and list 30+ people on the injury report. That'll keep them safe from scrutiny and allow for a little advantage since opposing teams will never know if someone is really injured, hurt, or just has a scratch on their knee. Better to be safe then sorry.

I wait for the day for someone to throw 700 yards but someone to say "but you were on injury report!! who are you ben Roethlisberger?"

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-22-2023, 08:11 AM)michaelsean Wrote: My question is what is the definition of an injury? Lots of players have hurts. If you aren’t limited then is it an injury or a hurt if it was anything at all.

If I punch you in your nose, that hurts. If I break your nose, that’s injured.

[BengalFanInNJ]

Florio really doesn't want this to go away. I mean, he is a Steelers fan.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pre-game-bengals-ravens-video-shows-joe-burrow-flexing-right-hand

[StoneTheCrow]

(11-28-2023, 10:42 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Florio really doesn't want this to go away. I mean, he is a Steelers fan.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pre-game-bengals-ravens-video-shows-joe-burrow-flexing-right-hand

Such a little worm. That guy needs headlocked, noogie’d, and shoved into a locker.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-28-2023, 10:42 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Florio really doesn't want this to go away. I mean, he is a Steelers fan.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pre-game-bengals-ravens-video-shows-joe-burrow-flexing-right-hand

I saw that.... typical Florio StOoLeR shit. I also saw a response to that on social media. There is a lot of film of Joe "flexing" his hand between snaps going back a while. Seems like it's a habit thing....like QBs that licked their fingers before getting the snap.