How Do We Improve The Line? Will We Do It?

[BFritz21]

Last offseason, we tried to improve the line but it just didn't happen. I went into this season thinking the line would be a strength and I had such high hopes that I put down a lot of money on bets for the team and also for individual awards for Burrow and Chase.

Burrow has never had a decent line here and has still taken us to a play from winning the ship and an AFCC game, so will we go all-out to bring in a decent line to make sure he doesn't have a short career and to win the big one?

What do we need to do to fix the line this offseason? Bring in free agents? Draft lineman? Replace Pollack? Replace Zac?

Jonah is likely leaving in free agency, so I've seen us taking a tackle in the first round, but what else needs to be done? Free agents?

Or is it as simple as replacing Pollack?

Or will it be another wasted year?

[XenoMorph]

gotta start at the top with the OL coach.

even bringing him all the talent he wants hes not improving a thing

[CKwi88]

Yeah, at this point you gotta wonder about coaching and scheme first and foremost. No doubt in the past it was a talent issue. But with what we're working with? Yes, Volson is pretty "meh", but I'm pretty certain no team boasts all-pro talent across the board on their O-Line.

We're going to lose Jonah, so we have minimum of two spots that are going to need attention. I'd never be opposed to drafting linemen high, and maybe bringing in another FA.

[TJ528]

(11-22-2023, 03:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Last offseason, we tried to improve the line but it just didn't happen. I went into this season thinking the line would be a strength and I had such high hopes that I put down a lot of money on bets for the team and also for individual awards for Burrow and Chase.

Burrow has never had a decent line here and has still taken us to a play from winning the ship and an AFCC game, so will we go all-out to bring in a decent line to make sure he doesn't have a short career and to win the big one?

What do we need to do to fix the line this offseason? Bring in free agents? Draft lineman? Replace Pollack? Replace Zac?

Jonah is likely leaving in free agency, so I've seen us taking a tackle in the first round, but what else needs to be done? Free agents?

Or is it as simple as replacing Pollack?

Or will it be another wasted year?

You've replaced pretty much EVERY piece of the OL since Pollack has been the OL coach.  

Personally, I think you have to bring in a new coach before you start cutting piece and bringing in new pieces. 

Cappa and Karras both shouldn't look like the piles of shit they've looked like this year. 

Volson looks like a rookie who doesn't deserve to be on the field some games.  

At the end of the day, a change is needed and that change starts at the head of the snake. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Duke needs to fundamentally change the way he drafts and assembles OL. Simple as that.

[*michaelsean*]

I can't think of any lineman who has become better. Not regressing seems to be the ceiling. They need a better coach.

[Joelist]

Seeing as we've had line issues under two head coaches, three line coaches and multiple OCs the issue is different.

I think it is our constant refusal to play to the strengths of our players and game plan to exploit the weaknesses of opponents. This collection of linemen is not bad. They are all a consistent type (power) also. But we insist on doing both run and pass in ways not leaning into power. The offense as a whole has an identity crisis. The strengths of the personnel look towards an offense operating under center more with power runs and play action passes - even to the point of using a FB. However, the plays and game plans are often oriented towards more spread looks out of shotgun, running wide zone, naked backfields and the like. It sets the players up to fail, especially as we have for YEARS had problems with "tells" on offense giving the play away. Locked on Bengals even called this out this week and noted that this season like the others they again have been trying to run wide zone concepts - Bengal sans even asked "Why?" in an exasperated tone

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

New OL coach, get a RT in Free Agency and a Center or LG. Might think about moving Karras to LG where he played well
before depending how good of a Center we get. Draft depth in the mid rounds and hope that our new OL coach can develop
Volson and our youth. Pollack clearly cannot.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-22-2023, 08:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: New OL coach, get a RT in Free Agency and a Center or LG. Might think about moving Karras to LG where he played well
before depending how good of a Center we get. Draft depth in the mid rounds and hope that our new OL coach can develop
Volson and our youth. Pollack clearly cannot.

This is easily the most reasonable idea so far.

[*ochocincos*]

I'm going to be perfectly honest...I don't think there's an impending FA or draft pick that will turn this OL into a Top 10 unit.
I really do think it's coaching/scheme.

Change coaching and/or scheme first, get some FA of Jonah's caliber or better to stopgap RT if anything.
If the Bengals can afford to use the draft pick(s), draft another 1-2 OL too.
Volson really needs to be pushed out, and Karras is entering his final season under contract next year.

[THE PISTONS]

Volson needs replaced.

Jonah probably leaves.

Karras and Cappa are average starters. Nothing special.

But, got to get a good line coach with a good scheme.

[*jason*]

(11-23-2023, 12:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Volson needs replaced.

Jonah probably leaves.

Karras and Cappa are average starters. Nothing special.

But, got to get a good line coach with a good scheme.

I'd like to come up on an RB with home run potential too... That'd be nice.

[Joelist]

I don't think the usual "get rid of coach/player" fixes the issues.

Why?

These issues have existed under Pollack, Turner and Alexander. They have existed under Zac and Marvin. Under Brian Callahan and his predecessor. It goes deeper. I think it is a culture thing in the franchise - a refusal to tailor the schemes to what the players are good at but instead just acting like all players are pluggable into almost any scheme.

We have an OL room of players who are well suited for power blocking concepts. We have a receiving core that has one player with real breakaway speed in the starters (Chase) and the others are good route runners and usually sure handed, with Tee specializing in high pointing. Our starting RB can run well but vision and tackle breaking are inconsistent. We seem to have landed on a TE who has good hands but again is not a speedster.

TAILOR THE SCHEME TO WHAT THEY DO WELL.

This means more under center, more runs and those runs should use power concepts, rejigger the routes and use concepts like slants, bunches and the like to get a bit of separation. And be prepared to use Sample as a FB. Use playaction more (which is what running more and using power more enables). Make everyone's lives easier by playing to their strengths.

[Ell Prez]

It can’t all be on the coach. I get that technique taught and scheme plays a roll, but at the end of the day players have to execute. If it’s all the coaching, why has Jonah looked good on the right but not the left? It’s because his talent is better suited there or is it because he was coached better for the right?

I don’t know how to fix the line. We paid big money to OBJ, Karras, Capa. Volson sucks and needs to go. Maybe we need to cut Karras and Capa and sign different FA. I think we should resign Jonah to play RT, 3 year deal. It’s a tough problem to have that doesn’t really have an overnight solution. This will take 2 years to fix, if done right.

[Housh]

Looking at this Lions VS Packers game and it’s pretty clear our line isn’t that good


Both Love and Goff have mad time to throw without even having to move too much

[Housh]

Jesus Christ Goffs pocket breaks down a little bit and he fumbles twice and is pure ass


That’s Joe Burrows pocket every pass play and he makes it look like it’s not even good lrsssure


Burrow needs a good line bro

[kalibengal]

(11-22-2023, 04:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Duke needs to fundamentally change the way he drafts and assembles OL. Simple as that.

Absolutely, this team has no skills in evaluating and devloping  trench talent  on both sides of ball. 
Why dont they poach some scouts from Browns or Eagles?
They seen to always rely on coaching the senior bowl and plucking guys they coach since they dont seem to have enough quality scouts to really bring in the hidden gems out there. 

happy thanks giving!

[Frank Booth]

Enough with the home run potential crap. Home run potential is why they didn’t get rid of Mixon and let Perine walk

[2MinutesHate]

Get a coach to teach them how to run block, take some snaps under center and use some damn play action.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

1) Volson should be a back up. Williams most likely will be too expensive to re-sign.

2) They may be able to upgrade Volson in free agency at a reasonable price. Should be able to draft an OT in the 1st or 2nd to compete for the starting job.

3) identify which run scheme you want to run then identify the players that fit what you want to do. No more of this square peg-round hole crap.

4) Stop throwing the ball a league high and running the ball a league low. If opposing defenses rush the passer every play they’d be right 70% of the time. Exposing your QB to that many pass rush attempts increases his risk for injury. The formation and play calling makes it easier for the defense when it should be doing the opposite. Try some pre-snap movements to produce favorable matchups.

5) Get a RB with better decision making, can make the first man miss, and can pass block.