If Burrow is out Zac will be exposed

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-23-2023, 10:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What proof do you have of this? Most head coaches hire their own staff with full autonomy.

Wasn't even Zac's first year, either, so it makes it even less likely he was saddled with him without his consent. His third year is when Pollack came back to replace Taylor's previous choice of Jim Turner.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 07:27 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Zac is the one who was OK with Browning while knowing Burrow was hurt at the start of training camp. No excuses for not pounding the table for a backup vet QB. Stop making excuses for Zac. If he loses out then that's on him being complacent with Browning as a backup. I would give him more leeway of Burrow wasn't hurt the 2nd day of training camp.

Do you even know anything about Jake Browning? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 08:49 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Ultimately Zac gets the blame for all losses and credit for all wins. And if Browning does poor with Joe’s injury history they’d better have a better backup next year.

No, no, no....the wins are in spite of Zac. All the losses are on him. Just ask around.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 09:20 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yep, I hope he does too. Just like I'm sure you hoped Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis did well. Did it happen? Nope. Did you want a change from those two? Yes. I don't see a difference here.

We've been to a Super Bowl and an AFCCG the last two years, and you don't see a difference in zero playoff wins in 16 years? Wow.

[*Nately120*]

(11-24-2023, 06:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: No, no, no....the wins are in spite of Zac. All the losses are on him. Just ask around.

No way, most of ZT's losses fall squarely on Andy Dalton.  No clue how that guy even still has a job in the NFL when he managed to make a coach like ZT rack up a record number of losses like that.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 09:38 PM)jason Wrote: Hue Jackson won something like 8 games with Jason Campbell as a starting QB. The Browns were tanking while he was there, and his career paid the price. I still think he was a really good coordinator at the very least.

He could've gone the Lovie Smith in Houston route and won games. He traded the Raiders future away for Carson. He sucked .....see how that works? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 10:01 PM)Nepa Wrote: I have been a fan since the inception of this franchise. During that time, the Bengals have had some really stellar QBs: Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, and Carson Palmer. But never in that time did I see: (1) back-to-back appearances in the AFCCC and (2) any away-game playoff wins. One cannot just separate out Burrow from Taylor for the amazing success we have seen the last two years.

Can you imagine some of these clowns during the up and down days of Sam Wyche's tenure? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 10:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What proof do you have of this? Most head coaches hire their own staff with full autonomy.

Most teams aren't the Bengals. How many HCs were saddled with Piano Man?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2023, 11:00 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well they went majority shotgun after the start in 2022. So them using shotgun I don't think was an adjustment they also didn't do any QB draws, rollouts or sneaks because they couldn't I don't think that's an adjustment. 
I really don't think this organization is gonna go outside of the bare minimum in most instances unfortunately so I don't really think we are gonna hire an OC. I'm also happy with what the team has accomplished the last few years. I just think we could be better with a more balanced attack and better situational football. We also have a fairly big sample size of Zac to question if he'll be able to accomplish those things. Plus we also need to factor in Burrows health. It has been an issue and we need to try and move forward in a way to try and protect him. Asking him to throw 30-40 times a game while asking him to run for a few 1st downs where he likes to take some nice hits doesn't feel like that will work out.

So they didn't run any rollouts or draws because they couldn't, and that's not an adjustment. Ok then. Well, starting week 5, what did you see? Some draws, rollouts, and (not to do with playcalls) scrambling. 

I do agree with the more balanced attack, but then you look at the numbers and the best teams in the league are passing about the same amount we are. Like it or not, it's a passing league. We paid a guy 275 million to pass the ball. I guess that's where the disconnect is. I don't want a guy like that handing the ball off to a middling RB that trips over his own feet more than he's tackled. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-24-2023, 06:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: No way, most of ZT's losses fall squarely on Andy Dalton.  No clue how that guy even still has a job in the NFL when he managed to make a coach like ZT rack up a record number of losses like that.

I was referring to the losses after 2019 thank you. Move over Andy, there's a new scapegoat in town. It'll be even worse now that Votto is gone.  

[*Nately120*]

(11-24-2023, 07:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: I was referring to the losses after 2019 thank you. Move over Andy, there's a new scapegoat in town. It'll be even worse now that Votto is gone.  

Let's not forget that Andy made ZT look like a bum here and then had the nerve to go to Chicago and make them look like they were QB-poison, too!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-24-2023, 06:54 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Most teams aren't the Bengals. How many HCs were saddled with Piano Man?

Ancient history. Things are obviously way different these days (spending on FA’s, indoor practice facility, RoH, trading up in draft, etc).

[TecmoBengals]

(11-24-2023, 07:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ancient history. Things are obviously way different these days (spending on FA’s, indoor practice facility, RoH, trading up in draft, etc).

White and black alternate helmets. 

[Brownshoe]

(11-24-2023, 06:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: We've been to a Super Bowl and an AFCCG the last two years, and you don't see a difference in zero playoff wins in 16 years? Wow.

I would bet my house that if Burrow was the QB instead of Dalton we would have went to the SB. Marvin almost won a playoff game with McCarron, whose on the team now. It's not Zac whose stopped our playoff suck trend. It was Burrow overcoming a ton to do it.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-24-2023, 07:36 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: White and black alternate helmets. 

Yep. They even look better these days.

Things obviously aren’t perfect, but bringing up Alexander being here forever is just unfair. They have changed the way they do things in so many different areas over the past few years.

[samhain]

(11-24-2023, 07:53 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I would bet my house that if Burrow was the QB instead of Dalton we would have went to the SB. Marvin almost won a playoff game with McCarron, whose on the team now. It's not Zac whose stopped our playoff suck trend. It was Burrow overcoming a ton to do it.

It's weird and I can't explain why, but it felt like a really bad omen when a backup qb from 8 years ago was suddenly on the roster again.

[*jason*]

(11-24-2023, 07:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Let's not forget that Andy made ZT look like a bum here and then had the nerve to go to Chicago and make them look like they were QB-poison, too!

Undefeated vs Zac Taylor though...

Edit: I forgot about that New Orleans game last year, where Chase had to house it to get the win.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-23-2023, 10:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: DM Paul Dehner or Jay Morrison on twitter. Zac had no relationship with Pollack. Pollack was here under Marvin. It’s not hard

Give me a f’n break.

Who is Zac’s offensive coordinator? Brian Callahan

Who is Brian Callaghan’s dad? Bill Callahan

Bill Callahan was head coach at Nebraska while Zac was the QB. Bill Callahan was offensive coordinator at Dallas while Frank Pollack was the Oline coach. And Frank Pollack was an assistant Oline coach for Mike Sherman while at the Houston Texans. The same Mike Sherman who is Zac’s father-in-law and gave him a job coaching at Texas A&M.

So even if they managed to never speak their entire lifetime despite knowing and working and being family with some of the same people in the same industry, Zac had some pretty good first hand references in Brian Callahan, Bill Callahan, Mike Sherman, Joe Mixon, and the other Bengal players and staff who were with the team during Pollack’s first stint.


https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-hire-pollack-as-offensive-line-coach-and-run-game-coordinator

Quote:"Frank will help us make great strides in the run game and protections," said head coach Zac Taylor. "He brings great technical skills in player development and his familiarity with some of our current offensive linemen will allow him to get to work right away. We interviewed several strong candidates to get the best outcome for our team. I am excited about the experience Frank brings to our offense."

Wow, Zac was “effusive” in his praise of Pollack. According to Zac, he interviewed Pollack. If Zac didn’t want Pollack, who did Zac want? And why was Zac allegedly overruled by Mike Brown?

Quote:"I am super excited for Coach Pollack to be back," said Mixon. "He's proven he's the best in the business. There are a lot of records to be broken. I'm looking forward to getting back on the field and getting to work."

Mixon also had “effusive” praise for Pollack given that Mixon had a career year under him.

So this must present quite the quandary for you. Since you think Zac deserves all the credit for everything, do you give him credit for two bad hires? Or just the one bad hire and blame Mike Brown for a bad hire in 2021 despite him ceding control to Katie prior to that?

[Destro]

(11-24-2023, 05:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Vanilla Vick’s heroics came by his legs that day, not his arm.

47 yards and a TD. Noodle arm, dry noodle legs.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-24-2023, 07:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: So they didn't run any rollouts or draws because they couldn't, and that's not an adjustment. Ok then. Well, starting week 5, what did you see? Some draws, rollouts, and (not to do with playcalls) scrambling. 

I do agree with the more balanced attack, but then you look at the numbers and the best teams in the league are passing about the same amount we are. Like it or not, it's a passing league. We paid a guy 275 million to pass the ball. I guess that's where the disconnect is. I don't want a guy like that handing the ball off to a middling RB that trips over his own feet more than he's tackled. 

Because you literally can't do something and then don't do it because you literally can't is not an adjustment. You've removed something from your game and replaced it with nothing. 
I get the Burrow is the guy and we want him to throw it the majority of times. My point on a more balanced attack is more that 1 yes it could help relieve pressure on Burrow. 2 it should become more effective if we make it a point of emphasis. 3 was my main point which is its fine to ask you franchise QB to throw it twice as much as you pass. But to do that in a rookie year with a trash oline and a year where your QB has a calf injury that is very clearly limiting his mobility is an issue. We all know Burrow got his knee injured his rookie year and this year it was his wrist. But he could've gotten injured earlier asking him to throw that much while injured and I'm still wondering if he did and the wrist is something he's been dealing with.