Blame the run game

[Millhouse]

(11-27-2023, 05:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is why I’ll be fine with moving on from Pollack. Not so much the pass protection.

And yes, I also think Mixon is a big part of the problem, too.

Agreed. New line coach, add couple more free agents, and imo go back to a two running back system (one that can pass block at minimum) while upgrading Mixon. At this point no where to go but up. Of course a new play caller can't hurt either in my opinion, which also could effect the run game.

[Chezaugie]

Hate to say it but the Bengals need to look for a RB in the first couple of rounds in the draft next year. Hate to waste a first round pick but also hate to look forward to another year of Mixon. Maybe they get lucky and have a Corum or Brooks in the second round.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-27-2023, 06:27 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Hate to say it but the Bengals need to look for a RB in the first couple of rounds in the draft next year. Hate to waste a first round pick but also hate to look forward to another year of Mixon. Maybe they get lucky and have a Corum or Brooks in the second round.

We are gonna need a runningback. But execution/playcalling philosophy > Mixon as far as what the problems are with the run game. So a new RB isn't fixing these issues.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-27-2023, 02:31 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: the run game has been bad every year Burrow has been here

and they were top 5 in attempts in 2021

still finished 24th out of 32 in yards per carry

inefficient is the word

2021? By my count they were 19th in rush att. Far from 5th. But I got side tracked on the yards per carry. My real point was that Mixon is at the bottom of the list for our run problems. Not saying he's a top 5 back or that we don't need to bring in a more dynamic back. But that doesn't solve the bigger issues.

[Frank Booth]

(11-27-2023, 06:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: 2021? By my count they were 19th in rush att. Far from 5th. But I got side tracked on the yards per carry. My real point was that Mixon is at the bottom of the list for our run problems. Not saying he's a top 5 back or that we don't need to bring in a more dynamic back. But that doesn't solve the bigger issues.

I feel you're bending over backwards to defend Mixon here. Mixon was 3rd in rushing attempts in 2021. He's the workhorse, right? 4.1 YPC. The team averaged 4.0 in 2021. 24th out of 32

that's a bad rushing game. He's been bad at running the ball. Worse than Perine.

Perine in 2021 averaged 4.5 ypc. Perine has been good here.

Colossal F up by keeping Mixon and letting Perine go

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-27-2023, 07:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I feel you're bending over backwards to defend Mixon here. Mixon was 3rd in rushing attempts in 2021. He's the workhorse, right? 4.1 YPC.  The team averaged 4.0 in 2021. 24th out of 32

that's a bad rushing game. He's been bad at running the ball. Worse than Perine.

Perine in 2021 averaged 4.5 ypc. Perine has been good here.

Colossal F up by keeping Mixon and letting Perine go

Colossal F up? Even if you want to say Perine fit the system we are trying to run your gonna say colossal F up?

Attention everyone apparently Frank thinks we'd be winning the Super Bowl if Perine was still here. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2023, 07:52 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Colossal F up? Even if you want to say Perine fit the system we are trying to run your gonna say colossal F up?

Attention everyone apparently Frank thinks we'd be winning the Super Bowl if Perine was still here. 

Pass pro and run game would be better overall if he was. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-27-2023, 08:29 PM)Wyche Wrote: Pass pro and run game would be better overall if he was. 

I'm sorry but no it would not. 

[Frank Booth]

(11-27-2023, 08:50 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm sorry but no it would not. 

Lmao we got a Mixon fan boy over here

not trying to repeat myself here, but...

Mixon 2021: 4.1ypc
Perine 2021: 4.5ypc

Mixon 2022: 3.9ypc
Perine 2022: 4.1ypc

so yes, Perine is better. He was better back then, and he's still better than woman beater Mixon lol

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-27-2023, 09:32 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmao we got a Mixon fan boy over here

not trying to repeat myself here, but...

Mixon 2021: 4.1ypc
Perine 2021: 4.5ypc

Mixon 2022: 3.9ypc
Perine 2022: 4.1ypc

so yes, Perine is better. He was better back then, and he's still better than woman beater Mixon lol

I wouldn't classify myself as a fanboy. But I am a fan of most of the players we've had. I know Mixon has been bad at times but the reason I defend him. Is I've seen it before from him and questioned him only for us to change scheme and see him be a top 5 back. So there's always that question of what unknown issues are going on. 

Did Perine have good moments here? Yes. Does he have parts of his game that are better than those of Mixons I'm sure he does. Did he have better YPC than Mixon in those years? Obviously he did I can't argue the stats. I can point out that they're are underlying issues in stats. Like a change of pace back/3rd down back does have higher YPC. That in 21' Mixon had 13 tds and they stop counting yardage once you cross the goal line. 

But all I need to say is when the lights shined the brightest on 3rd and 1 in the Superbowl Perine went down with a whimper. When you absolutely gotta have it he gave us nothing. I know it may seem that I have ill will and the fact is I don't and I would welcome him back on the team. But the point is one thing Perine doesn't have of Mixons is his power. You cannot be a #1 runningback in the NFL if your not powerful enough for short yardage and Perine is not. Alot of other good attributes.

[Frank Booth]

(11-27-2023, 10:54 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I wouldn't classify myself as a fanboy. But I am a fan of most of the players we've had. I know Mixon has been bad at times but the reason I defend him. Is I've seen it before from him and questioned him only for us to change scheme and see him be a top 5 back. So there's always that question of what unknown issues are going on. 

Did Perine have good moments here? Yes. Does he have parts of his game that are better than those of Mixons I'm sure he does. Did he have better YPC than Mixon in those years? Obviously he did I can't argue the stats. I can point out that they're are underlying issues in stats. Like a change of pace back/3rd down back does have higher YPC. That in 21' Mixon had 13 tds and they stop counting yardage once you cross the goal line. 

But all I need to say is when the lights shined the brightest on 3rd and 1 in the Superbowl Perine went down with a whimper. When you absolutely gotta have it he gave us nothing. I know it may seem that I have ill will and the fact is I don't and I would welcome him back on the team. But the point is one thing Perine doesn't have of Mixons is his power. You cannot be a #1 runningback in the NFL if your not powerful enough for short yardage and Perine is not. Alot of other good attributes.

it sure does seem like that

oh, and you witnessed Mixon be a top 5 back? When was this? For a 2 game stretch every other season? You're very biased so Im just gonna leave it at that. I'l let someone else converse with you for now

[*Go Cards*]

(11-27-2023, 10:54 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I wouldn't classify myself as a fanboy. But I am a fan of most of the players we've had. I know Mixon has been bad at times but the reason I defend him. Is I've seen it before from him and questioned him only for us to change scheme and see him be a top 5 back. So there's always that question of what unknown issues are going on. 

Did Perine have good moments here? Yes. Does he have parts of his game that are better than those of Mixons I'm sure he does. Did he have better YPC than Mixon in those years? Obviously he did I can't argue the stats. I can point out that they're are underlying issues in stats. Like a change of pace back/3rd down back does have higher YPC. That in 21' Mixon had 13 tds and they stop counting yardage once you cross the goal line. 

But all I need to say is when the lights shined the brightest on 3rd and 1 in the Superbowl Perine went down with a whimper. When you absolutely gotta have it he gave us nothing. I know it may seem that I have ill will and the fact is I don't and I would welcome him back on the team. But the point is one thing Perine doesn't have of Mixons is his power. You cannot be a #1 runningback in the NFL if your not powerful enough for short yardage and Perine is not. Alot of other good attributes.

Feel Perine had way more power than Mixon and it showed on his blocking and vicious stiff arms.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-28-2023, 07:37 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Feel Perine had way more power than Mixon and it showed on his blocking and vicious stiff arms.

He does.... he's not a very dynamic back, but power running north and south is his game. As I noted, the run game as a whole would be better if was still here. That's not saying he would be the featured back, or bust out 1000 yds rushing, but the run game and pass pro would be better if he was here getting snaps.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-28-2023, 07:37 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Feel Perine had way more power than Mixon and it showed on his blocking and vicious stiff arms.

Okay. Not enough power to pick up short yardage. 3rd and 1.

[Bengalitis]

(11-26-2023, 06:28 PM)Joelist Wrote: The offense needs to be redesigned. Brian Callahan should go and Zac should lose play calling authority. Build it around playing under center and lean into our OL's strong suit - power. Sample is more than able to be a FB type player in the offense so have him do that and run straight power with preference inside and preference left with Sample lead blocking. Mixon can start but if he does not start making the first guy miss he sits in favor of anyone else.

Glad someone said this so I wouldnt have to.

[KillerGoose]

(11-28-2023, 10:05 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay. Not enough power to pick up short yardage. 3rd and 1.

Samaje Perine converts short yardage runs at a higher percentage than Mixon does with Perine converting 69% of his attempts and Mixon converting 67%. Perine also breaks significantly more tackles than Mixon does along with averaging more yards after contact. There are no data to back up what you're saying, and the eye test also doesn't back it up. Mixon isn't a powerful back. He's physical and will seek out contact but it typically ends up with him just going down and not running through people. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-28-2023, 07:37 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Feel Perine had way more power than Mixon and it showed on his blocking and vicious stiff arms.

Beat me to it. That is what stood out to me in Nug's post. Perine is so much more powerful than Mixon, made me shake my head
reading that on my phone. People get mad about the Super Bowl where Perine couldn't get the yardage, but that was also on a 
terrible OL going against a great DL. Overall Perine is so much more effective in short yardage than Mixon.

Samaje Perine is still doing it too with the Broncos on a good running team and not on the worst running team in the NFL.

I bet if we still had Perine here we would not be the worst running team in the NFL even with the least amount of snaps. Perine
was respected here and we would give him snaps unlike our current backs and there must be a reason for it.

Mixon still has problems hitting holes and we saw it again on Sunday. Not that there were a lot of holes, but there were a few he
missed.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-28-2023, 11:25 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Samaje Perine converts short yardage runs at a higher percentage than Mixon does with Perine converting 69% of his attempts and Mixon converting 67%. Perine also breaks significantly more tackles than Mixon does along with averaging more yards after contact. There are no data to back up what you're saying, and the eye test also doesn't back it up. Mixon isn't a powerful back. He's physical and will seek out contact but it typically ends up with him just going down and not running through people. 

Again sometimes you have to use your eyes. 3rd and 1 in the Superbowl isn't the only example. It's also not just me Goodberry has also called mentioned Mixon being more powerful.

[KillerGoose]

(11-28-2023, 04:16 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Again sometimes you have to use your eyes. 3rd and 1 in the Superbowl isn't the only example. 

You have to use both. You come up with a preliminary opinion with your eyes and validate it with data. When there is a mismatch between the two, you've gone wrong somewhere. Either A) you have a bad dataset OR B) your "eye test" is wrong. In this case, Mixon neither converts short yardage situations more often or breaks tackles more often. Perine is superior in both categories. That poses a big problem to your assessment between the two and one play in the Super Bowl, regardless of your emotional attachment, doesn't change that.

Quote:It's also not just me Goodberry has also called mentioned Mixon being more powerful.

Well to begin, that means absolutely nothing. His opinion is no different than yours. On top of that...has he? Or has he only mentioned that Mixon is "powerful enough"? Goodberry mentions Mixon being powerful here but says nothing of comparing the two. Here is a tweet where Goodberry is talking about how awful he is at breaking tackles and wants to be told how Mixon is still good. 

I don't think he has the same opinion as you. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-28-2023, 04:37 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You have to use both. You come up with a preliminary opinion with your eyes and validate it with data. When there is a mismatch between the two, you've gone wrong somewhere. Either A) you have a bad dataset OR B) your "eye test" is wrong. In this case, Mixon neither converts short yardage situations more often or breaks tackles more often. Perine is superior in both categories. That poses a big problem to your assessment between the two and one play in the Super Bowl, regardless of your emotional attachment, doesn't change that.



Well to begin, that means absolutely nothing. His opinion is no different than yours. On top of that...has he? Or has he only mentioned that Mixon is "powerful enough"? Goodberry mentions Mixon being powerful here but says nothing of comparing the two. Here is a tweet where Goodberry is talking about how awful he is at breaking tackles and wants to be told how Mixon is still good. 

I don't think he has the same opinion as you. 

Please post said numbers.