Burrow's surgery

[Essex Johnson]

(11-27-2023, 08:31 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: I agree with your assessment and would also hang Boyd out there for a trade. TE is a must. Just look at how the Bengals have been gashed by other teams' TEs. Also, let's get a real RB in camp. With the Bengals draft projections (possibly top ten) there is no reason they can't get a quality RB, TE and OL picks. My problem is what do you do with a top ten 1st round pick? It's not worthy of TE, RB or OL. Perhaps a defensive line pick as the current squad is really bad. Maybe a trade down would help.

I have not really looked into the quality of college Oline as a top 10 pick, but if you trade Tee, this would be a great chance to lock up a rookie top 10 WR on a rookie contract... hopefully play like Tee did rookie year would be great across from Chase plus you will have additional picks and save $$ for other areas.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-28-2023, 10:27 AM)Tomkat Wrote: He injured his wrist the play BEFORE it "popped" because he was insta-mauled by Jadaveon Clowney thanks to the shitty O-line.

really ?, That play was a pretty normal play of NFL level, he threw pass got pushed some was not mauled and fell to side put his wrist out for support and maybe that is where it happen. im assuming since ive really read little about what Burrow said when he hurt it unless i missed it.
If we have to worry about that level of play for a QB to stay healthy then we are screwed that happens pretty much every game in the NFL with QBs,

[Chezaugie]

(11-27-2023, 09:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Boyd is in the final year of his deal, and the trade deadline for this season has already passed.

Can't they "tag" him and then possibly trade him? Although, that would be a huge expense as he would get the salary of an top tier WR.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-28-2023, 03:22 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This conversation is so disingenuous due to the lack of any mention of Tom Seaver or Bucky Walters.

You're right: Seaver is the best pitcher the Reds had, but I should've said, "as a Red."

He had great numbers, but not up to his prime Mets days.

Walters won games, but only had .8 more WAR than Rijo in 900 more innings and in those 900 less innings, Rijo had 400 more strikeouts.

Jim Maloney would be the only one I'd put with Rijo, but you could make a case for all 3.

It's interesting that Reds have never truly been dominant in terms of starting rotation, post dead-ball: they've had guys, but not 3 (or more) great pitchers at once.

They've always been a huge offense/defense team.

[TecmoBengals]

Homer Bailey was considered a top MLB prospect. Joe Burrow was a top NFL draft prospect. Any comparison of Bailey's career to Burrow's career would only have been appropriate if Burrow became an immediate bust in the 2020 or 2021 season. That didn't happen. Instead, he proved to be a top QB.

Comparing Bailey's career trajectory to Burrow's career trajectory in 2023 doesn't make any sense.

[KillerGoose]

(11-28-2023, 10:41 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: really ?, That play was a pretty normal play of NFL level, he threw pass got pushed some  was not mauled and fell to side put his wrist out for support and maybe that is where it happen. im assuming since ive really read little about what Burrow said when he hurt it unless i missed it.
If we have to worry about that level of play for a QB to stay healthy then we are screwed that happens pretty much every game in the NFL with QBs,

The prior hit likely damaged the ligament and then when he threw it, it was enough force to pop it. Freak injuries can happen like that at anytime. I completely tore my Achilles by starting to run straight forward, no one touched me. Teddy Bridgewater nearly had to have his leg amputated because his knee dislocated as he was dropping back. No contact.

All part of the inherent risk of playing professional football. 

[ochocincoftw]

Y’all really believe burrow was hurt from the clowney push? This happened prior in the year. Earlier that day bro even had a wrap on it claiming he only uses it because they were flying and things swell up. Give me a break, cabins are pressurized. His wrist was hurt before this game and the coaches played him anyways.

[*Nately120*]

(11-28-2023, 11:46 AM)ochocincoftw Wrote: Y’all really believe burrow was hurt from the clowney push? This happened prior in the year. Earlier that day bro even had a wrap on it claiming he only uses it because they were flying and things swell up. Give me a break, cabins are pressurized. His wrist was hurt before this game and the coaches played him anyways.

[burreauxs]

(11-28-2023, 11:46 AM)ochocincoftw Wrote: Y’all really believe burrow was hurt from the clowney push? This happened prior in the year. Earlier that day bro even had a wrap on it claiming he only uses it because they were flying and things swell up. Give me a break, cabins are pressurized. His wrist was hurt before this game and the coaches played him anyways.

oh are you a sports med doctor? is a TFCC sprain truly that unlikely due to a FOOSH? Specifically a forceful, traumatic FOOSH caused by a heavy man tackling you? is there no possibility at all that upper extremity swelling due to something like lateral epicondylalgia was present before and entirely separate from this current injury?

[*bfine32*]

I apologize for getting involved in the Homer Bailey v. Joe Burrow debate.

I looked at it merely as an elite young Cincinnati prospect who was hampered by injury in a thread about injury

I didn't think to consider WAR, Aaron Hurang, and FC Cincy players

[ochocincoftw]

(11-28-2023, 12:09 PM)burreauxs Wrote: oh are you a sports med doctor? is a TFCC sprain truly that unlikely due to a FOOSH? Specifically a forceful, traumatic FOOSH caused by a heavy man tackling you? is there no possibility at all that upper extremity swelling due to something like lateral epicondylalgia was present before and entirely separate from this current injury?

So he was just wearing a wrist wrap on the exact hand a few hours prior for no reason? lol delusional

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2023, 11:46 AM)ochocincoftw Wrote: Y’all really believe burrow was hurt from the clowney push? This happened prior in the year. Earlier that day bro even had a wrap on it claiming he only uses it because they were flying and things swell up. Give me a break, cabins are pressurized. His wrist was hurt before this game and the coaches played him anyways.

It was a short week. and there's a very good chance JB's wrist wasn't 100% and I have little doubt he and the team were doing all preventive therapy they could. I don't buy things such as IPad glove and compression sleeve. 

WTS, it's late in the season, about 95% of starting NFL players are dealing with dings, we were in the middle of a playoff race taking on a division foe in a "must-win" situation. It does appear that the wrist was not so compromised as to have him miss any practice. 

What do you do? You play the dude and hope a 270 lb guy doesn't land on it. It was obvious that throwing the ball was not causing any problem with the wrist

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2023, 10:46 AM)Chezaugie Wrote: Can't they "tag" him and then possibly trade him? Although, that would be a huge expense as he would get the salary of an top tier WR.

No team is paying $23M for Tyler Boyd. He’s overpaid for what we’re paying him now.

[jj22]

(11-28-2023, 11:46 AM)ochocincoftw Wrote: Y’all really believe burrow was hurt from the clowney push? 

No, but we are toting the company line in case the League is lurking....

They trotted him out to practice with a sleeve on his calf just to see him go down that same practice to a significant calf injury (just to tell us there was nothing wrong with the calf and he just wore the sleeve to.......... keep it warm, or whatever they said". Plus we have already noted him flexing and stretching his wrist periodically for weeks leading up to the injury.

Not sure who your post was directed to. But this is old news.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-28-2023, 10:22 AM)Chezaugie Wrote: Sorry LL, my math was incorrect (thought he was born in 1988) however, there were many opinions, in HIS time, that Homer was an "ace." Here is one such article comparing him to Nolan Ryan. It all boils down to one's opinion. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1692425-is-homer-baileys-second-no-hitter-proof-hes-an-elite-pitcher-in-mlb

As stated above by others, Homer's situation is eerily similar to Burrow's at this point; Highly touted prospect, early success, huge contract, severe injury/injuries. That is my point, not a comparison of talent.

Literally the second sentence of the article:  "OK, maybe that's a bit of a stretch." 

Also Bleacherreport? Lol, but even ignoring the iffy nature of such a site... a large chunk of the article's content is that Bailey's predictive stats (FIP and xFIP) say he had been good for awhile, but those are just flawed predictive stats rather than reality.
There were a LOT of opinions taken, and those opinions said he was a 0x All-Star, and never even got a single 3rd place MVP or Cy Young vote.

Neither by accolades or by reality was Homer ever considered elite.

It was all just hope he would get better based off flawed predictive stats.

- - - - -

Homey Bailey had no early success. It wasn't until the 6th season he spent time in the majors that he wasn't terrible. The first 5 seasons he spent time in the majors in, he had a 4.89 ERA and 85 ERA+ (15% below league average) and a massive 1.450 WHIP. 

Even after he reached his rookie limits, the next year he was still optioned down to the minors. Joe Burrow isn't getting benched or sent down to the XFL. He is closer to Zach Wilson than Joe Burrow.

Even huge contract isn't true for Bailey. Homer's contract was only huge for the Reds, not for MLB. The same year Bailey signed 6yr/$105m, Kershaw signed for 7yr/$215m. Burrow meanwhile became the highest paid QB in the NFL.

- - - - - -

You try to force a bad and inaccurate Homer Bailey comparison, and it's pretty clear what the goal is. Lol

[Essex Johnson]

(11-28-2023, 11:15 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The prior hit likely damaged the ligament and then when he threw it, it was enough force to pop it. Freak injuries can happen like that at anytime. I completely tore my Achilles by starting to run straight forward, no one touched me. Teddy Bridgewater nearly had to have his leg amputated because his knee dislocated as he was dropping back. No contact.

All part of the inherent risk of playing professional football. 

I don't disagree playing NFL professional football is an inherent risk but the earlier and more frequent injuries in a players career start to bring in doubt to durability.

Eifert and Burrow have had similar starts to their careers, both have played at a high level at their position but both have had season ending injuries 2 of their first 4 seasons. By season 5, Eiffert was labeled a risk for sure at his position, I do believe Eifert was more injured overall going into year 5 especially with back issue than Burrow going into Year 5 but surgery to QB throwing hand is troublesome and with the injuries mounting up , it is appropriate to be concerned about his durability at QB position.

[Chezaugie]

(11-28-2023, 01:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Literally the second sentence of the article:  "OK, maybe that's a bit of a stretch." 

Also Bleacherreport? Lol, but even ignoring the iffy nature of such a site... a large chunk of the article's content is that Bailey's predictive stats (FIP and xFIP) say he had been good for awhile, but those are just flawed predictive stats rather than reality.
There were a LOT of opinions taken, and those opinions said he was a 0x All-Star, and never even got a single 3rd place MVP or Cy Young vote.

Neither by accolades or by reality was Homer ever considered elite.

It was all just hope he would get better based off flawed predictive stats.

- - - - -

Homey Bailey had no early success. It wasn't until the 6th season he spent time in the majors that he wasn't terrible. The first 5 seasons he spent time in the majors in, he had a 4.89 ERA and 85 ERA+ (15% below league average) and a massive 1.450 WHIP. 


Even after he reached his rookie limits, the next year he was still optioned down to the minors. Joe Burrow isn't getting benched or sent down to the XFL. He is closer to Zach Wilson than Joe Burrow.

Even huge contract isn't true for Bailey. Homer's contract was only huge for the Reds, not for MLB. The same year Bailey signed 6yr/$105m, Kershaw signed for 7yr/$215m. Burrow meanwhile became the highest paid QB in the NFL.

- - - - - -

You try to force a bad and inaccurate Homer Bailey comparison, and it's pretty clear what the goal is. Lol





As I mentioned before, I am comparing the situation of both athletes, not the achievements/talent. Also, as I said before, it boils down to opinion. You have yours and Bleacher Report et al have theirs. Given Bleacher Report is a subsidiary of Warner Brothers/Turner Broadcasting I would lean toward them being more credible than you. But, of course, I have never read your published sports sites.

By the way, Homer's average annual salary, adjusted for inflation, would put him in with Luis Castillo and Kevin Gausman. Not bad company.

[burreauxs]

(11-28-2023, 12:13 PM)ochocincoftw Wrote: So he was just wearing a wrist wrap on the exact hand a few hours prior for no reason? lol delusional

many other reasons for wrist/forearm pain beyond an acute ligament tear. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Quote:As I mentioned before, I am comparing the situation of both athletes, not the achievements/talent. Also, as I said before, it boils down to opinion. You have yours and Bleacher Report et al have theirs. Given Bleacher Report is a subsidiary of Warner Brothers/Turner Broadcasting I would lean toward them being more credible than you. But, of course, I have never read your published sports sites.

By the way, Homer's average annual salary, adjusted for inflation, would put him in with Luis Castillo and Kevin Gausman. Not bad company.

Bleacher Report is literally just thousands of people who can just join to be unpaid writers (plus a few people they actually pay for some credibility) and write whatever they want for clicks.... 

2008: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/81738-tom-brady-is-overrated-its-official
2009: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/299460-why-tom-brady-is-the-most-overrated-quarterback-of-all-time
2009: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/227149-tom-brady-is-not-great-he-is-simply-over-rated
2011: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/928901-why-tom-brady-is-the-most-overrated-quarterback-in-nfl-history

I am sure I could find a lot more if I bothered to look.

https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/how-bleacher-report-made-crap-journalism-pay/

Quote:The San Francisco–based site is an aggressively growing online giant, tapping the oceanic labor pool of thousands of unpaid sports fanatics typing on thousands of keyboards.

https://deadspin.com/bleacher-report-is-the-worst-thing-in-the-history-of-j-5948516

Quote:One of Bleacher Report's top-five strategies for up-and-comers is to pen "hyperbolic headlines" and "always aim to either overstate or understate your position."

- - - - - - - - -


Again, Kershaw got $30.7m/yr the same year Bailey got $17.5m/yr. That means Bailey got just 57% of the salary of elite pitchers of that time.

That would be like a QB getting a $31.3m/yr extension the same time as Joe Burrow getting $55m/yr and saying "they're the same situation!"

Homer took 6 years to be even decent, he didn't get paid at an elite level, he didn't get accolades, and his hype was largely regulated to just people trying to hype up some advanced metrics while being shit or mediocre at actual stats.

They aren't in the same situation at all.

[Sled21]

(11-28-2023, 01:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: No, but we are toting the company line in case the League is lurking....

They trotted him out to practice with a sleeve on his calf just to see him go down that same practice to a significant calf injury (just to tell us there was nothing wrong with the calf and he just wore the sleeve to.......... keep it warm, or whatever they said". Plus we have already noted him flexing and stretching his wrist periodically for weeks leading up to the injury.

Not sure who your post was directed to. But this is old news.

If someone wants me to believe Burrow's wrist was injured and the team hid that injury, they would have to explain to me how it would in any way benefit the team over just putting him on the injury report and making him a game time decision. The whole conspiracy makes zero sense.