You fans expect too much from these players

[casear2727]

(11-28-2023, 03:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Again, I don't think you can give him a chance in a game until he shows it in practice, because you risk the QB on every single snap his misses the protection. As to why they can't develop him, this is the first year Mixon has not been horrible at it, so it is either poor coaching or not easy to learn. And, you have to be willing. FWIW, I was really looking forward to this kid running the ball this season, as I'm quite tired of watching Mixon dance and fall down. Mixon seems to be running harder North and South this season, so at least maybe he's feeling pushed by Brown. 

I dont disagree.  He may not be good.  With the way this season has gone, not playing a guy in Week 13 due to being "overwhelmed"  just mind numbingly pisses me off.  Kid had a ton of pass pro sets at a major D1.  They talked about wanting him to play.  I'd rather they say he isnt a good blocker than he would be "overwhelmed".   If I was Chase Brown I would not be happy reading that.  

[Joelist]

Come let us reason together...

To advocate for more snaps for Chase Brown or Chuck Sizzle or Yoshi is not the same as tanking. We can get them more snaps WHILE still playing to win. It is just looking down the road a bit and saying that if we use this time now to discover what we have it allows a more informed approach to the postseason. Also all three of these players have excellent speed, and a big issue on offense is right now the only player with jets is Chase. I love Tyler and Trent but they are what they are, which is sure handed possession receivers.

Also, let's be real Browning needs to SERIOUSLY improve his awareness, reading the defense and reaction times if he is ever to be more than a spot backup. His missed reads directly cost us the game with the dumb INT and also standing like a rock and getting sacked while Yoshi beat his defender like a rented mule and was WIDE open - Burrow sees that and it is an easy TD. But we're stuck with him so we should make the best of it and get the kids the snaps.

[jj22]

(11-28-2023, 03:05 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I'll type slower so you can understand.  I do not agree with Zac not giving the young guys any snaps. Oh but you are. Because well if he does that would mean tanking! You stated in order for them to get playing time someone would have to sit. You stated that. Then got bent out of shape when I decided said players would just have to sit then 

They need to be given some clock, rotated in a little bit more.  Do it properly.  That is my opinion.

Your suggestion to bench veterans that are not playing poorly is obvious tanking.  That is against the rules.  That is stupid. Is Mixon not playing poorly? Awuzie? Irv? 

Your suggestion to bench players not playing poorly that will be free agents in 6 weeks is more than stupid. I'd argue you worrying about players feelings or whatever it is you are worried about who are not going to be on the team in 6 weeks is what is "stupid". How and what do their feelings have to do with 2024? This is the NFL, it's a cutthroat industry. Players know this. Nobody running these teams are as sensitive as you being about these players who aren't apart of the future on a 5-6 soon to be 5-12 team.

The fact that you dont know the difference in getting young players some snaps for experience vs absolute benching of starting veterans reveals a total lack of understanding. Maybe, you place too much on someone being a "starter". Irv surely appreciates that. 


Your idea is only acceptable the last 2 games of the season, not in Week 13.  Why? "tanking" as you call it the last two games of the season looks even more guilty as the draft position is further set and that is when teams picking top 5 surely wouldn't want to win....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-28-2023, 03:17 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree.  He may not be good.  With the way this season has gone, not playing a guy in Week 13 due to being "overwhelmed"  just mind numbingly pisses me off.  Kid had a ton of pass pro sets at a major D1.  They talked about wanting him to play.  I'd rather they say he isnt a good blocker than he would be "overwhelmed".   If I was Chase Brown I would not be happy reading that.  

Maybe pizzing Chase Brown off is what they were trying to do? lol

RB's come in the NFL a lot more prepared than many positions as well. I highly doubt Brown would be overwhelmed.

Dude has been hurt most of the season, I could understand if he isn't 100% on why not to get him any snaps and the fact we had 
half the snaps we normally do in this game. But overwhelmed just doesn't make sense to me this late in the season. We have been 
playing rookies all year and they have not been overwhelmed for the most part. I see no reason Chase Brown would be.

Give him some snaps to know what we have for the future behind the starting OL.

He is known to be a good pass catcher as well. Maybe they are scared about his ball security? That also would make sense as this
was probably his biggest problem in college. Tried to fight for extra yardage too much and defenders punched the ball out on him 
far too much for my liking...

(11-28-2023, 03:18 PM)Joelist Wrote: Come let us reason together...

To advocate for more snaps for Chase Brown or Chuck Sizzle or Yoshi is not the same as tanking. We can get them more snaps WHILE still playing to win. It is just looking down the road a bit and saying that if we use this time now to discover what we have it allows a more informed approach to the postseason. Also all three of these players have excellent speed, and a big issue on offense is right now the only player with jets is Chase. I love Tyler and Trent but they are what they are, which is sure handed possession receivers.

Also, let's be real Browning needs to SERIOUSLY improve his awareness, reading the defense and reaction times if he is ever to be more than a spot backup. His missed reads directly cost us the game with the dumb INT and also standing like a rock and getting sacked while Yoshi beat his defender like a rented mule and was WIDE open - Burrow sees that and it is an easy TD. But we're stuck with him so we should make the best of it and get the kids the snaps.

Well said, we need to see more speed besides Chase and Chase Brown, Chuck Sizzle and especially Iosivas would provide it.

So true on Browning holding onto the ball way too long with actually good protection and just not seeing Iosivas coming free for a 
potential TD. I saw it live from the broadcast point of view. Don't know what Browning was doing?

[SunsetBengal]

(11-28-2023, 03:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: You can argue coaching when players are not performing up to the investment you put into them.  Would anyone be surprised if a WR, CB, or OT couldn't get on the field as a 5th round pick barring injuries?  Not really.  5th round picks are usually reserves and bubble guys that often don't even make it through their rookie deals.

You can't hand your coach chicken shit and expect him to make chicken salad.

Draft position seems to matter less with the RB position than some others.

Kareem Hunt late 3rd round
Devon Achane late 3rd round
Gus Edwards UDFA
Jerome Ford 5th round
Austin Ekeler UDFA

You might have been able to excuse Chase Brown by draft position, but the same coaching staff has yet to develop Traveyon Williams or Chris Evans to the point of gaining meaningful playing time either.

[casear2727]

I cant believe I have to explain this to you.

 I do not agree with Zac not giving the young guys any snaps. Oh but you are. Because well if he does that would mean tanking! You stated in order for them to get playing time someone would have to sit. You stated that. Then got bent out of shape when I decided said players would just have to sit then ]


There is a difference in getting players snaps, and benching a vet to play rookies that have yet to play.  You not understanding this is a terrible look on you.


 Is Mixon not playing poorly? Awuzie? Irv? 

Chase has 2 rushing attempts.  He has NOT beat Mixon out. Does Ivey have any snaps on defense?  See Battle's rep count before he took Scott's role.   Again, your lack of basic football sense is concerning.


Your suggestion to bench players not playing poorly that will be free agents in 6 weeks is more than stupid. I'd argue you worrying about players feelings or whatever it is you are worried about who are not going to be on the team in 6 weeks is what is "stupid". How and what do their feelings have to do with 2024? This is the NFL, it's a cutthroat industry. Players know this. Nobody running these teams are as sensitive as you being about these players who aren't apart of the future on a 5-6 soon to be 5-12 team.


This has NOTHING to do with feelings for vets about to become free agents.  This is their livelihood.  An organization exists called the Players Association, backed by millions of dollars whose only reason for existence is to ensure the players are treated fairly.  This organization is VERY powerful.  Again your lack of knowledge is pitiable.


The fact that you dont know the difference in getting young players some snaps for experience vs absolute benching of starting veterans reveals a total lack of understanding. Maybe, you place too much on someone being a "starter". Irv surely appreciates that. 

Benching a player can have severe implications, contract wise and moving forward in their career.  A rookie TE we would like to see play does not exist on this roster, mentioning Irv makes zero sense, much like the rest of your mindless argument.


Your idea is only acceptable the last 2 games of the season, not in Week 13.  Why? "tanking" as you call it the last two games of the season looks even more guilty as the draft position is further set and that is when teams picking top 5 surely wouldn't want to win....

You seriously reveal your total lack of understanding the NFL with this comment.  Many times vets themselves are ok with sitting out at the very end as they have a whole season on tape.  Teams are absolutely out of playoff consideration in the last 2 weeks and playing younger players is much more acceptable.  How do you NOT know this?


The fact you need any of this explained to you is beyond words.

[Whatever]

(11-28-2023, 03:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Draft position seems to matter less with the RB position than some others.

Kareem Hunt late 3rd round
Devon Achane late 3rd round
Gus Edwards UDFA
Jerome Ford 5th round
Austin Ekeler UDFA

You might have been able to excuse Chase Brown by draft position, but the same coaching staff has yet to develop Traveyon Williams or Chris Evans to the point of gaining meaningful playing time either.

There were 11 RB's drafted on Day 3 of the 2023 NFL Draft.  Only two have 100+ rushing yards and only one is on pace to match Perrine's 394 from last year, and that's by decimal points.  He was also taken in the top of the 4th, so if you weren't pushing for RB in 1, 2, or 3, you really don't have any room to complain.  

Out of the '22 draft, 17 RB's were selected on Day 3.  Only 5 are on pace to average 400 rushing yards a season.  

'21 is 5 of 14.  '20 was 0 for 8.  '19 was 2 for 16.  

So, in the Zac Taylor era, there have been 66 RB's drafted on Day 3.  Only 13 of those are on pace to average 400 rush yards a year for their career.  That's a 19.6% hit rate, meaning you should hit on one every 5 picks.  Not good odds if you're expecting guys to make a significant contribution, especially in Year 1.  

[GodFather]

(11-28-2023, 12:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Seems like there may have been a lot of plays that they didn't "get to", as they only ran 37 offensive plays.  (average is like 60-70/game)

You always hear Lou doesnt care about yards but points. Well one thing is with alot of yards equals alot of time of possession and our offense sitting on the sidelines. Yes points are what matters but we arent going to score many points either if our offense is sitting on the sideline either.

This team has so much to clean up it's ridiculous.

[*Synric*]

(11-28-2023, 07:01 PM)GodFather Wrote: You always hear Lou doesnt care about yards but points. Well one thing is with alot of yards equals alot of time of possession and our offense sitting on the sidelines. Yes points are what matters but we arent going to score many points either if our offense is sitting on the sideline either.

This team has so much to clean up it's ridiculous.

Bengals only had 1 drive with more than 4 plays. If they want to control the ball they have to move the ball.

[GodFather]

(11-28-2023, 07:05 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals only had 1 drive with more than 4 plays. If they want to control the ball they have to move the ball.

Yup, one of many of their problems.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-28-2023, 07:01 PM)GodFather Wrote: You always hear Lou doesnt care about yards but points. Well one thing is with alot of yards equals alot of time of possession and our offense sitting on the sidelines. Yes points are what matters but we arent going to score many points either if our offense is sitting on the sideline either.

This team has so much to clean up it's ridiculous.

The same argument could be made that if the Bengals offense could have moved the ball with any consistency, Pittsburgh's offense may never have had so many opportunities to get into a rhythm to run up those yards.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-28-2023, 01:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: No.  Logically he could play more if he improves in pass pro.

These are professional athletes.  It's not youth soccer where everyone gets to play.  While everyone on this board is hoping he shows something so they don't have to include a RB in their mock drafts, the coaches see this kid every day in practice and already 99% know what they have.  

A kid who's college scouting reports knocked him for pass pro and ball security isn't someone you want out there in a one score game with a backup QB.

Right, just take Mixon for example. He's been killing it in pass pro his entire career.

[Sled21]

(11-28-2023, 03:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Draft position seems to matter less with the RB position than some others.

Kareem Hunt late 3rd round
Devon Achane late 3rd round
Gus Edwards UDFA
Jerome Ford 5th round
Austin Ekeler UDFA

You might have been able to excuse Chase Brown by draft position, but the same coaching staff has yet to develop Traveyon Williams or Chris Evans to the point of gaining meaningful playing time either.

You have a point with Chris Evans, but as for Williams it is hard to develop someone who is constantly in the tub. Dude has been injured most of his career. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-28-2023, 02:46 PM)casear2727 Wrote: JJ you are just not very intelligent.  Young guys can get reps rotating in, no need to bench vets.

Bench Mixon for a rookie that has never played.  That's tanking and stupid. 
Bench Awuzie for a rookie that has never played.  That's tanking and stupid. 
Bench Tee.  Thats tanking and stupid. 

It is against the rules, we will lose draft picks.  The Players Association will go to war against us.  No free agents will ever want to play here.

I obviously want young guys to get some snaps, Im just not stupid.

Exactly
 
1. We weren't moving the ball, at all, doing what we were doing. What could it possibly hurt rotating in some of the young guys to see what they got? And maybe, just maybe, something good will happen? Like a first down

2. Mixon just isn't that good. As has been said he will only get what's blocked the vast majority of the time. He doesn't have that break away gear to shift to. Why not see what Brown can do?

The only reason we were "in the game" is because Pittsburgh sucks. It wasn't like we were out there kicking ass and on the verge of victory with our practice squad level QB.

Try something, anything

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-29-2023, 09:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You have a point with Chris Evans, but as for Williams it is hard to develop someone who is constantly in the tub. Dude has been injured most of his career. 

Trayveon? No he hasn't:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillTr06.htm

He was on PS and/or inactive, otherwise I think he's missed like 5 games out of a possible 75. That's not always hurt.

In fact, if you search, "Trayveon Williams injury," in Google the ONLY thing that pops up is from this year and something about missing the first 5 games of his rookie season. That's it.

Guy is NEVER hurt.

[Sled21]

(11-29-2023, 10:18 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Trayveon? No he hasn't:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillTr06.htm

He was on PS and/or inactive, otherwise I think he's missed like 5 games out of a possible 75. That's not always hurt.

In fact, if you search, "Trayveon Williams injury," in Google the ONLY thing that pops up is from this year and something about missing the first 5 games of his rookie season. That's it.

Guy is NEVER hurt.

You're right. I must have been thinking of somebody else. I thought he had several knee things in the past.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-29-2023, 10:24 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You're right. I must have been thinking of somebody else. I thought he had several knee things in the past.

That was Rodney Anderson, his draft mate that never played due to his ACLs tearing.

Last year in college, tore it. First year with us, tore it in TC. Next year, tore it again in the 2nd PS game.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-29-2023, 09:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You have a point with Chris Evans, but as for Williams it is hard to develop someone who is constantly in the tub. Dude has been injured most of his career. 

Evidently it affected his brain development as well, Burrow was mad as hell at Williams when he blew his assignment earlier this season.

[Sled21]

(11-29-2023, 10:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That was Rodney Anderson, his draft mate that never played due to his ACLs tearing.

Last year in college, tore it. First year with us, tore it in TC. Next year, tore it again in the 2nd PS game.

Yep, had them confused.

[GodFather]

(11-29-2023, 08:47 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The same argument could be made that if the Bengals offense could have moved the ball with any consistency, Pittsburgh's offense may never have had so many opportunities to get into a rhythm to run up those yards.

Yes both statements are true..