Burrow and his grasp on this offense...

[NotBigzo]

A part of being a great leader is differenting WANTS from NEEDS and giving the people you're entrusted to lead what they NEED.

Taylor has been giving Burrow what he WANTS, not what he NEEDS.

[THE PISTONS]

This is going to sound weird, but sometimes when you have an elite QB, I think in some ways it's harder to design an offense around them than if you have a limited QB.

An elite QB can do it all, so you want to pass every play. Call crazy plays, etc. Defenses take the deep throw away and the run isn't there. And defenses are up to play against Burrow.

With a limited QB, you are FORCED to be balanced and creative.

I'd rather have the elite QB 100/100 times.

[3wt]

(12-05-2023, 11:49 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Bengals twitter users like Bengals_Sans were talking about "easy button" plays that Taylor was calling to help Browning (things like PA rollouts after establishing the run), and I couldn't help but wonder why there are easy buttons that the Bengals simply choose not to use with Burrow very often.

It definitely warrants some thought and investigation during the off season as to what aspects of the Burrow offense are making it harder than it needs to be, and possibly creating more opportunities for easy throws that guarantee you that 3rd and 1 (or 2nd and 1, or 4th and 1) play that you really need.

I'm thinking we're going to want to see what the sustain of those easy button plays is.  Someone said it in the Browning appreciation thread: Allen had a superpower game - but only one.

Let's see how this rolls

But for the record I truly admire his game last night, the play calling for it and his chill under pressure.  The last may make the sustain possible.  He certainly threw the ball better than I expected.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2023, 10:27 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know its only one game and this will be a SLIGHT over reaction...but I think it's becoming a bit more clear how this offense operates.

It's basically a system in which Burrow wants it to all run through him. Line up in spread, diagnose, make the play. He wants it ALL to fall on him and his big brain. He wants to throw it 50 times a game and HE wants to beat you.

It's worked and it's been fine to an extent, but man...it might be time for Joe to look himself in the mirror and maybe say "yeah, this doesn't have to be THAT hard and ALL fall on me".

Running the ball is the absolute key to opening this offense up and relieving some pressure off Burrow (or whoever is at QB)...he needs to be open to that, and other ways to make it easier on himself.

I think a lot of us have gotten it twisted that ZT want the offense to be a certain way, but in the end, I think it's Joe.

Again, this isn't a criticism of Joe (because he's amazing), but just pointing out how it could be better.

There was a tell tale sign last night. We've been running RPOs all year, and most of the time, he pulls it and throws. Jake seemed to predominantly hand it off. This may come off as weird, but this injury might be a blessing in disguise. He gets a chance to watch the offense work within its structure. You know he's over there learning. Every single series, he was with Jake on his tablet. Like you said, maybe he'll realize he doesn't have to be the hero all of the time. He doesn't usually have this opportunity to watch someone else run it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2023, 10:40 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Totally agree and have said all along that Zac needs to coach the team and not just Burrow.  And that means telling JB that it's better for the team if they spread things around.

Love JB but sometimes the coach needs to be the coach and tell even the best player what's is more efficient for the TEAM.  There is no "I" in TEAM.  We've all heard that and it's true.

Plus, it will prolong JB's career.

That's the biggest benefit, no doubt.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Found an article that hints at the premise of your thread. Maybe Bengals Wire is watching you. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2023/12/05/bengals-joe-burrow-learn-jake-browning-offense/

[Essex Johnson]

(12-05-2023, 10:27 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know its only one game and this will be a SLIGHT over reaction...but I think it's becoming a bit more clear how this offense operates.

It's basically a system in which Burrow wants it to all run through him. Line up in spread, diagnose, make the play. He wants it ALL to fall on him and his big brain. He wants to throw it 50 times a game and HE wants to beat you.

It's worked and it's been fine to an extent, but man...it might be time for Joe to look himself in the mirror and maybe say "yeah, this doesn't have to be THAT hard and ALL fall on me".

Running the ball is the absolute key to opening this offense up and relieving some pressure off Burrow (or whoever is at QB)...he needs to be open to that, and other ways to make it easier on himself.

I think a lot of us have gotten it twisted that ZT want the offense to be a certain way, but in the end, I think it's Joe.

Again, this isn't a criticism of Joe (because he's amazing), but just pointing out how it could be better.

One area i haved since Burrows 1st year that he needs to improve on or commit to better is play action and RPOs... that is what Browning did a very good job with last nite

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2023, 01:42 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: One area i haved since Burrows 1st year that he needs to improve on or commit to better is play action and RPOs... that is what Browning did a very good job with last nite

Browning is actually pretty damn good with the play fake. He had a nice one on his TD pass against Pitt. 

[casear2727]

(12-05-2023, 01:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: Found an article that hints at the premise of your thread. Maybe Bengals Wire is watching you. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2023/12/05/bengals-joe-burrow-learn-jake-browning-offense/

Maybe Weezy is Chris Roling....?

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Towards the end of the game like Burrow. Browning was reverting to old habits took a coverage sack nearly took a 2nd. Both could learn to throw it away more even if it ruins their precious completion percentage

[tms]

I know it's hard, but I absolutely refuse to draw too many conclusions after one game. There was such limited tape on Browning with this offense, Jags were bound to look unprepared to some extent. I didn't expect it and I'll enjoy it, but I'm also not gonna read too much into it. The NFL's all about adaptation. It's gonna get trickier for Browning as teams start to lock in on his tendencies and gain actual data on which to base their game plans.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2023, 01:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Maybe Weezy is Chris Roling....?

Hey, ya never know!

[Essex Johnson]

(12-05-2023, 02:06 PM)tms Wrote: I know it's hard, but I absolutely refuse to draw too many conclusions after one game. There was such limited tape on Browning with this offense, Jags were bound to look unprepared to some extent. I didn't expect it and I'll enjoy it, but I'm also not gonna read too much into it. The NFL's all about adaptation. It's gonna get trickier for Browning as teams start to lock in on his tendencies and gain actual data on which to base their game plans.

I agree with you but the idea of the adaptation also can relate to Burrow, teams don;t bite at his RPO and play action much when he does them, so that could be a good conversation between Burrow and ZT to adapt for next year, correct ?

[casear2727]

(12-05-2023, 02:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I agree with you but the idea of the adaptation also can relate to Burrow, teams don;t bite at his RPO and play action much when he does them, so that could be a good conversation between Burrow and ZT to adapt for next year, correct ?

We all loved Boomer, he was the greatest play action QB ever.  Burrow is no Boomer.

That said, not all play action is the same.  The shorter the route concept the quicker the fake must be.  Also the vast majority of the time they only need to stall a LB for a half a second. 

The last thing that LBs all read the oline first, if they pass blocking or run blocking, that is where they get their tells, if you can catch them with eyes in the backfield you can get them. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2023, 10:27 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know its only one game and this will be a SLIGHT over reaction...but I think it's becoming a bit more clear how this offense operates.

It's basically a system in which Burrow wants it to all run through him. Line up in spread, diagnose, make the play. He wants it ALL to fall on him and his big brain. He wants to throw it 50 times a game and HE wants to beat you.

It's worked and it's been fine to an extent, but man...it might be time for Joe to look himself in the mirror and maybe say "yeah, this doesn't have to be THAT hard and ALL fall on me".

Running the ball is the absolute key to opening this offense up and relieving some pressure off Burrow (or whoever is at QB)...he needs to be open to that, and other ways to make it easier on himself.

I think a lot of us have gotten it twisted that ZT want the offense to be a certain way, but in the end, I think it's Joe.

Again, this isn't a criticism of Joe (because he's amazing), but just pointing out how it could be better.

I don't want to over react either, but yeah. I do think Zac caters to Joe a ton and Joe loves empty sets and the Shotgun so 
Zac trusts him and who can blame him? But Joe needs to understand that unpredictability and a running game will only help 
him and the team.

I want to see some games where Joe just hands the ball off to his RB's 30 times and throws the ball 20 times and we win
in astonishing fashion. I was saying yesterday that more balance is what this team needs as OL like to run block and it gets
them settled in instead of always having to pass protect in Shotgun sets.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2023, 02:06 PM)tms Wrote: I know it's hard, but I absolutely refuse to draw too many conclusions after one game. There was such limited tape on Browning with this offense, Jags were bound to look unprepared to some extent. I didn't expect it and I'll enjoy it, but I'm also not gonna read too much into it. The NFL's all about adaptation. It's gonna get trickier for Browning as teams start to lock in on his tendencies and gain actual data on which to base their game plans.

I agree with this as well. Teams will have some film on Browning of him playing well after this game.

Let's see if he can play well 2 games in a row. But he WILL need a running game.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-05-2023, 10:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think this organization has a REALLY hard time telling Joe "No". From him wanting to play in the first few games this season when he was clearly injured, to how certain aspects of this offense operate. 

I get he's the franchise and you want to make him happy...but man, at some point the coach player heiarchy has to be a thing. 

Kinda interesting that the TE’s got the ball and we ran it more. I’d bet Joe checks out of the run game I bet several times a game. There’s a lot of substance to your post.

[reuben.ahmed]

(12-05-2023, 10:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think this organization has a REALLY hard time telling Joe "No". From him wanting to play in the first few games this season when he was clearly injured, to how certain aspects of this offense operate. 

I get he's the franchise and you want to make him happy...but man, at some point the coach player heiarchy has to be a thing. 

Yeah I think it's true, like the leaders of the team need someone that has the balls to say no. It was half-time in the finals that Ty Lue told Lebron he wasn't playing well enough to win game 7. He was like wtf look at my stats and Lue said I don't give a shit about your stats, if you don't play better we're going to lose!

I think Browning performing well gives Zac and others leeway to say no, if we trust Zac...lol. Up until this point I trust Joe Burrow more than anyone else on the team, so I hope he's just learning from what he's seeing.

[reuben.ahmed]

(12-05-2023, 01:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: Browning is actually pretty damn good with the play fake. He had a nice one on his TD pass against Pitt. 

Yeah from my eye test I think Browning does the playaction fake and rollouts better than Burrow lol, but the playaction might just work/look better because we had a run game yesterday once in a blue moon, but I also think his fake is just better. He likes playing under center and RPO, it works for him.

[Roland]

You're criticizing Joe Burrow for Zac Taylor's offense and play calling.   The big difference in this game is that they ran the ball and they stuck with running the ball.   That helped the protection and kept the linebackers and secondary honest.

Zac Taylor's running game has always stunk. He's a quarterback-focused coach and it's on him that he puts the offense so heavily on the quarterback's shoulders.  With this game plan and Burrow at QB we would have won by two touchdowns.  There were touchdown passes there for the taking that Brown wasn't seeing.

When Zac thinks about being aggressive he needs to think more in terms of attacking the defense and less in terms of going for it on fourth downs and low percentage trick plays.

Yes, Burrow takes on more than his share sometimes - usually when the game plan is not getting it done.

Our best hope is that this and the remaining games will give Zac the opportunity to see where he can make changes to put his quarterback in a position to win games without requiring them to perform heroically game after game.