This to me explains the Mixons problems. If I'm reading it correctly he has alot of carries that he isn't expected to get alot but he gets more than expected for what's there. He doesn't have elite speed so he doesn't take runs to the house and why he's not higher with actual yards over expected. His lack of elite speed does cause him to not be able to make the unblocked defender a safety per say miss very often. We all see Browns elite speed can make the unblocked defender miss and turn into a bigger gain. But Mixon does things we simply take for granted. He handles the short yardage and he handles alot of carries both of these things will bring down a ypc over time.
There was talk of Perine being more productive but Perine didn't handle short yardage or has never been tasked with carrying the ball as much as Mixon (his 3 years didn't equal one healthy season of Mixon). If we look at the games individually we see they are essentially the same player from a production viewpoint. They both have games where they go over 4 ypc and they both have games where they fall well below 4 ypc.
I've always thought since Mixon has been here that he thrives in a certain blocking scheme while struggling in a wide zone blocking scheme. But yet we constantly try and switch him to a wide zone seemingly every year only to change out of it. We also never make the run game a priority. I don't mean just running the ball more I mean urgently try and fix the run doing more screens and playaction in an attempt to slow down defenders. Look at our offense under Browning. We put him out there attempting to run Burrows offense and it failed miserably. So we drastically change things up now granted that is the whole offense so if it fails its ugly. But we never put that same urgency to the run as it's treated as just a after thought to Burrow and the passing offense ( deservedly or not ).
Lastly I obviously think Brown is helping the run game with his explosiveness but I'm not so sold that it's for fear of losing his job. I think it's more just freshness and not carrying the load as well as two different style runners giving defenders a different look. But it's not Mixons fault we refused to give anyone else carries earlier in the year. I think we all wanted to see someone else get some carries before this point.
(12-13-2023, 07:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Is the "bad oline" an excuse for Burrow? Because apparently how he likes to run offense hangs them out to dry.
I'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say. Mixon missing open holes is the argument against him always running behind a 'bad line'. Mixon himself is the cause of a lot of missed yards.
Burrow holding the ball and causing a lot of his sacks isn't really an idictment of the line. They're certainly bad in the case of Mixon and Burrow on many occasions but it's not a big reason why Mixon's ypc is as low as it is because there's clear visual evidence that Mixon has left a lot of yards on the field by missing open running lanes.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(12-13-2023, 09:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say. Mixon missing open holes is the argument against him always running behind a 'bad line'. Mixon himself is the cause of a lot of missed yards.
Burrow holding the ball and causing a lot of his sacks isn't really an idictment of the line. They're certainly bad in the case of Mixon and Burrow on many occasions but it's not a big reason why Mixon's ypc is as low as it is because there's clear visual evidence that Mixon has left a lot of yards on the field by missing open running lanes.
I guess it's not a good argument on my end. But neither is you claiming Mixon misses alot of big holes. I feel like we can just make any claim we want and pretend it's the truth at this point.
Mixon is doing better in man blocking vs zone blocking. They’ve gone back and forth on the zone blocking and man blocking. The linemen I’ve got a feeling are mixed at their strengths.
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
(12-13-2023, 07:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That and the fact that you can turn on pretty much any All 22 and see some big holes that he missed over the years. I'm not here to dog him with this post but the "bad oline" is not a valid argument for the majority of his 'problems'.
I've been asking for examples . . . If you or anybody else can recall the plays, I have the all 22, I'm just not going to watch game after game to try to find what you see, give me time of the plays and I'll watch them.
(12-13-2023, 09:50 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I guess it's not a good argument on my end. But neither is you claiming Mixon misses alot of big holes. I feel like we can just make any claim we want and pretend it's the truth at this point.
You could make that argument for anyone who has done that.
I've posted on multiple occasions in the past, with screen caps, of him doing just what i claimed. Others have as well.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
You have to consider Mixon has never had a great offensive line in front of him and in fact the majority of his time with the Bengals they've been barrel scraping slugs.. This is the first season they've been half decent. He absolutely rarely fumbles and catches most everything thrown to him. At the least he's no Cory Dillon going to a superbowl winning team telling the world, "They don't even want to win."
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
(12-13-2023, 10:03 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I've been asking for examples . . . If you or anybody else can recall the plays, I have the all 22, I'm just not going to watch game after game to try to find what you see, give me time of the plays and I'll watch them.
And for you Volson fans
Last year i posted several examples with screen caps from NFL+ game reviews. It would take a massive amount of time to go back and find out which games and which carries.
I just spent quite a bit of time going through posts to find previous examples that i've posted and it would take hours to find the one's i'm specifically thinking of and i'm not about to spend that much time.
Here is a post from last year after the 1st Browns game.
(11-02-2022, 01:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I manned up and rewatched last night, to watch every Mixon run. By my count, he had better option on every single run and if you're talking about the play i think you're talking about...it was REALLY bad. Blocker in front of him, defender shading left and Mixon...cuts left???? right into the 2 of them when he had nothing but green grass to the right.
Bad.
EDIT: You're talking about a different play (though you could be talking about every run Mixon had). The one i'm talking about was in the middle of the field and it was wide open to the right and Mixon ran right into getting tackled.
EDIT TO THE EDIT: I can only imagine what the Oline is thinking, sitting there in films, watching him and wondering "wtf is he doing??".
Here's a post about that game.
(11-02-2022, 12:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I mean, look at this frigging hole…
If Joe Mixon cuts inside here late in the second quarter, it might be a touchdown.
Mixon missed on a couple explosive runs on Monday. In a few cases, he was one-on-one and wasn't able to make a defender miss. pic.twitter.com/EwTA3RiTgD
(12-13-2023, 11:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Last year i posted several examples with screen caps from NFL+ game reviews. It would take a massive amount of time to go back and find out which games and which carries.
I just spent quite a bit of time going through posts to find previous examples that i've posted and it would take hours to find the one's i'm specifically thinking of and i'm not about to spend that much time.
Here is a post from last year after the 1st Browns game.
Here's a post about that game.
Ok. I'm tired of searching. If you have NFL+, just go back and watch some games from last year....or the year be...ok i'm done with this post now.
Even on this screen shot it looks like a big hole but cappa defender is free and coming into the hole. I'm not saying Mixon doesn't ever make bad cuts ( last years jets game is a game I remember being highlighted) but he has good vision. They're are keys that running backs read that we don't or atleast I don't always pick up on. What can look like a decent cut lane can be deceptive with what side a defenders head is to the blocker or if a defender is able to get his arms extended.
Mixon has never lived up to his hype that the Bengals expected when they surprised everybody by taking him early after punching that girl and other teams were passing on him.
He has been ok on the field.
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
(12-13-2023, 11:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Last year i posted several examples with screen caps from NFL+ game reviews. It would take a massive amount of time to go back and find out which games and which carries.
I just spent quite a bit of time going through posts to find previous examples that i've posted and it would take hours to find the one's i'm specifically thinking of and i'm not about to spend that much time.
Here is a post from last year after the 1st Browns game.
Here's a post about that game.
Ok. I'm tired of searching. If you have NFL+, just go back and watch some games from last year....or the year be...ok i'm done with this post now.
Yes, last year there were like 5+ runs early in the season where I was like where the hell is he going? Just follow the blockers in front
of you....
He would of had TD's instead of 15 yard gains. This year, Mixon has been better which is perplexing, you wouldn't think a RB this late
in his career would gain vision and get better in pass pro but he has from what I have seen which is wild.
(12-14-2023, 08:44 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This is a thread about Joe Mixon, why are you attempting to shift the focus?
I was merely trying to point out that the "bad oline" is completely acceptable to throw out regarding Burrow but not with Mixon. I just thought it's worth pointing out when we are questioning if Mixon is under appreciated that we look at two different positions with different lenses.
(12-14-2023, 03:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, last year there were like 5+ runs early in the season where I was like where the hell is he going? Just follow the blockers in front
of you....
He would of had TD's instead of 15 yard gains. This year, Mixon has been better which is perplexing, you wouldn't think a RB this late
in his career would gain vision and get better in pass pro but he has from what I have seen which is wild.
I remembered you calling atleast the ones in the Jets game. I thought it at the time but not sure I ever mentioned it. But Burrow struggled to start and we all pointed out the appendix which I'm sure it had something to do with it. But I noticed with Burrow the line would appear to lose early Burrow would drop his eyes and start to essentially panic and end up taking a sack. But the line would stay with they're guys and after losing initially would be able to wash they're guys out of the play and maintain a good pocket. Once Burrow adjusted with this and settled down he would just make slight adjustments in the pocket and keep his eyes down field. I just mention all this because he had to adjust to the new personnel on the line and I just wonder if the same was true with Mixon. Knowing how guys block and what a win or loss of them blocking looks like. Just a thought because generally i think his vision is fine.
(12-14-2023, 03:12 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I remembered you calling atleast the ones in the Jets game. I thought it at the time but not sure I ever mentioned it. But Burrow struggled to start and we all pointed out the appendix which I'm sure it had something to do with it. But I noticed with Burrow the line would appear to lose early Burrow would drop his eyes and start to essentially panic and end up taking a sack. But the line would stay with they're guys and after losing initially would be able to wash they're guys out of the play and maintain a good pocket. Once Burrow adjusted with this and settled down he would just make slight adjustments in the pocket and keep his eyes down field. I just mention all this because he had to adjust to the new personnel on the line and I just wonder if the same was true with Mixon. Knowing how guys block and what a win or loss of them blocking looks like. Just a thought because generally i think his vision is fine.
Yes, the Jets game stood out.
It is all about continuity for sure. But when Mixon has 2 blockers in front of him, an OL and a TE to the left and cuts to the right into
the Safety it just blew my mind last year early in the season. I don't know if this is vision or just stupidity, I simply do not know. I don't
see Burrow ever panic, I have seen him unsure of things with his appendectomy, the new OL and the calf though.
It would be nice for Burrow and the entire Offense to have a clean Offseason, preseason snaps and continuity leading into the opener
for once. But onto now where Mixon is playing well and we have a shot at the Playoffs. I do believe having another RB like Chase Brown
helps Mixon. This guy has vision, quicks and long speed, the things Mixon doesn't have. Great 1-2 punch.
See but here's the problem. 2019 is when Zac Taylor got here. Not trying to blame everything on Taylor here. But as I've said we just don't emphasize the run with Taylor. Ask yourself if you were a first year head coach taking over the Bengals in 2019 what do you think you would try to utilize with a quick glance at that 2018 stat. Then add in AJ Green gets hurt in training camp. But you come into the 1st game and still have Dalton throw it 51 times and have Mixon run it 6 times (literally) and lose 21-20. Then we continue that year and Mixon is the worst he's ever been here in the first half had 4 games where he gained 10,17,17, and 2 yards. Then during the 2nd half of the season he was literally the 2nd best back in the league behind only Derrick Henry. This again is why I'm just not so sure what the culprit is in Mixons struggles. I know it's been multiple years and now Mixon is getting older so it's easy to point to the continued trend. But we keep trying to change the scheme to a wide zone we never make strong efforts to improve the run game especially since Burrow has been here.
(12-14-2023, 03:31 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: See but here's the problem. 2019 is when Zac Taylor got here. Not trying to blame everything on Taylor here. But as I've said we just don't emphasize the run with Taylor. Ask yourself if you were a first year head coach taking over the Bengals in 2019 what do you think you would try to utilize with a quick glance at that 2018 stat. Then add in AJ Green gets hurt in training camp. But you come into the 1st game and still have Dalton throw it 51 times and have Mixon run it 6 times (literally) and lose 21-20. Then we continue that year and Mixon is the worst he's ever been here in the first half had 4 games where he gained 10,17,17, and 2 yards. Then during the 2nd half of the season he was literally the 2nd best back in the league behind only Derrick Henry. This again is why I'm just not so sure what the culprit is in Mixons struggles. I know it's been multiple years and now Mixon is getting older so it's easy to point to the continued trend. But we keep trying to change the scheme to a wide zone we never make strong efforts to improve the run game especially since Burrow has been here.
Nothing in this post has anything to do with RYOE. It's a stat that takes play design, defense formation, and player tracking to measure how many yards a RB creates for himself. For his career Mixon has pretty much gotten what's blocked for him and that's all.
(12-14-2023, 03:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, the Jets game stood out.
It is all about continuity for sure. But when Mixon has 2 blockers in front of him, an OL and a TE to the left and cuts to the right into
the Safety it just blew my mind last year early in the season. I don't know if this is vision or just stupidity, I simply do not know. I don't
see Burrow ever panic, I have seen him unsure of things with his appendectomy, the new OL and the calf though.
It would be nice for Burrow and the entire Offense to have a clean Offseason, preseason snaps and continuity leading into the opener
for once. But onto now where Mixon is playing well and we have a shot at the Playoffs. I do believe having another RB like Chase Brown
helps Mixon. This guy has vision, quicks and long speed, the things Mixon doesn't have. Great 1-2 punch.
To me I would call it panicking but he would just drop his eyes and start moving eracticly in the pocket. Only really happened the 1st 2 or 3 games of last year. But regardless of that we do have a good 1-2 punch right now. Hopefully they keep feeding off of each other and giving defenses trouble with they're different running styles. I think this week will be a test because Minn. is tougher against the run than either Jax or Indy.
(12-14-2023, 03:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Nothing in this post has anything to do with RYOE. It's a stat that takes play design, defense formation, and player tracking to measure how many yards a RB creates for himself. For his career Mixon has pretty much gotten what's blocked for him and that's all.
Mixon doesn't make Defenders miss or break tackles well that is for sure.
I like him on screens though gotta say.
(12-14-2023, 03:39 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: To me I would call it panicking but he would just drop his eyes and start moving eracticly in the pocket. Only really happened the 1st 2 or 3 games of last year. But regardless of that we do have a good 1-2 punch right now. Hopefully they keep feeding off of each other and giving defenses trouble with they're different running styles. I think this week will be a test because Minn. is tougher against the run than either Jax or Indy.
What is the Vikes run blocking rank again? Jax was top 5 and we ran on them pretty well...
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