Most underappreciated Bengal: Trey Hendrickson

[J24]

I wasn't a big fan of the Trey signing at the time but man I was wrong on him. He's arguably played like a HOF during his time here!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-14-2023, 03:18 PM)J24 Wrote: I wasn't a big fan of the Trey signing at the time but man I was wrong on him. He's arguably played like a HOF during his time here!

I forget, did you want to keep Lawson? I wanted Trey over him the moment he was a FA because he knew how to finish Sacks
and played with better discipline in keeping the QB in the pocket and not over pursuing like Dunlap always did. The only question
for me was if he would play as well without a stud End like Cam opposite of him.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-14-2023, 07:43 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Absolutely a great pass rusher. Likely the second best pass rusher I have ever seen in a Bengals uniform (Atkins). I do think we need to talk about him playing a bit fewer snaps, though, for the sake of the run defense.

Another 1.5 sacks today. Our run defense problems aren't on Hendrickson. Unless he suddenly got so massively worse in one year that it's caused us to drop from 7th to 25th as a team.

I'd give the title of "best pass rusher" to the guy who was better at rushing the passer, but that's just me. More consistent as well. Doesn't disappear as often as Atkins did.

Love Atkins though. One of my favorite Bengals of all-time. We just disagree, and that's fine.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-16-2023, 09:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Another 1.5 sacks today. Our run defense problems aren't on Hendrickson. Unless he suddenly got so massively worse in one year that it's caused us to drop from 7th to 25th as a team.

I'd give the title of "best pass rusher" to the guy who was better at rushing the passer, but that's just me. More consistent as well. Doesn't disappear as often as Atkins did.

Love Atkins though. One of my favorite Bengals of all-time. We just disagree, and that's fine.

Didn't he set a franchise record today?

[Shake n Blake]

(12-14-2023, 04:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The guy just keeps balling. He's sacked the QB in 11 of 13 games this year. He has 13.5 sacks with 4 games left.

Just to update: He's now sacked the QB in 12 of 14 games with 15 sacks overall.

[The D.O.Z.]

(12-16-2023, 09:46 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Didn't he set a franchise record today?

Yep! 15 sacks now and plenty of time for more! Hope he gets 20!

[007BengalsFan]

Hendrickson is the only Pro Bowl caliber player on the defense. Without him, we have very little pass rush.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-16-2023, 10:30 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Hendrickson is the only Pro Bowl caliber player on the defense. Without him, we have very little pass rush.

CTB would have likely been a Pro Bowler had he not got hurt. He’s that caliber anyway.

[007BengalsFan]

(12-16-2023, 10:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: CTB would have likely been a Pro Bowler had he not got hurt. He’s that caliber anyway.

I like CTB and think he has a bright future but he is not that caliber player at this point.   You can look at various stats and things like his PFF grade.  While he has potential, he is not one of the top corners out there right now.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-16-2023, 11:14 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I like CTB and think he has a bright future but he is not that caliber player at this point.   You can look at various stats and things like his PFF grade.  While he has potential, he is not one of the top corners out there right now.

He would have gotten a lot of Pro Bowl votes off the INT’s alone.

[casear2727]

(12-16-2023, 11:14 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I like CTB and think he has a bright future but he is not that caliber player at this point.   You can look at various stats and things like his PFF grade.  While he has potential, he is not one of the top corners out there right now.

He definitely played himself into our CB1 before his injury.   He is an impact player.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-16-2023, 09:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Another 1.5 sacks today. Our run defense problems aren't on Hendrickson. Unless he suddenly got so massively worse in one year that it's caused us to drop from 7th to 25th as a team.

I'd give the title of "best pass rusher" to the guy who was better at rushing the passer, but that's just me. More consistent as well. Doesn't disappear as often as Atkins did.

Love Atkins though. One of my favorite Bengals of all-time. We just disagree, and that's fine.

I actually do wonder if he was trying to be much more deliberate with maintaining the edge and that impacted his rushing last year. Remember that while the Bengals had a good run defense, Hendrickson only had 8 sacks last year and now he's at 15 this year while also almost doubled his missed tackle %.

Atkins was doing it against 2 OL and sometimes 2 OL + 1 RB, which is why it was so impressive, but also why he'd go a bit quiet at times even though that meant he was opening up everything for everyone else.

Hendrickson is still a hell of a pass rusher, though, and he's really on quite a run of sacks this year, only having 2 games this year where he's not recorded at least a half sack. That's real nice consistency. I just also know that outside of sacks he's only made 2 solo tackles and 1 assissted tackle over the last 5 games. It's largely sack or bust.

(Also just saw that Twatt retook the sack lead for now, blech.)

[Nepa]

Whether Hendrickson is underappreciated by Bengals fans and media, I don't know. He does make lists of top players and gets talked about a lot on game days by announcers (unlike Reader). But I would say clearly underappreciated by game officials, who treat him like he's a no-name with questionable calls against him and not calling offensive holding when he's clearly being held. Well-known names like Watt and Bosa seem to get those calls.

[Sled21]

(12-16-2023, 11:14 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I like CTB and think he has a bright future but he is not that caliber player at this point.   You can look at various stats and things like his PFF grade.  While he has potential, he is not one of the top corners out there right now.

You can look at stats or you could watch him play. If you watch him play, it is easy to see he's a Pro Bowl caliber player.

[*bfine32*]

CTB is quickly becoming a fine starting CB in the NFL, but which one of these CBs is he better than:

Sauce Gardner
Patrick Surtain Jr
Jalen Ramsy
Denzel Ward
Xavien Howard
Tre'Davious White

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-17-2023, 12:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: CTB is quickly becoming a fine starting CB in the NFL, but which one of these CBs is he better than:

Sauce Gardner
Patrick Surtain Jr
Jalen Ramsy
Denzel Ward
Xavien Howard
Tre'Davious White

Probably none of them, but he might have got some Pro Bowl love had he stayed healthy, and had another pick or two. He’s still currently tied for 4th in the league, and that’s having missed 4 games.

[Ell Prez]

Hendrickson is a beast. If the argument is who was more important to the team: Hendrickson or Dunlap, it’s not even close. Hendrickson can completely shut down a drive with a negative 9 yard sack. Dunlap maybe got more tackles, but big deal. Who’s to say the tackle that Hendrickson didn’t get was picked up 1 yard later by a linebacker or another d lineman.

Give me the sack machine Hendrickson. Give me another one of him for this team and it would dramatically improve the defense.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-17-2023, 10:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I actually do wonder if he was trying to be much more deliberate with maintaining the edge and that impacted his rushing last year. Remember that while the Bengals had a good run defense, Hendrickson only had 8 sacks last year and now he's at 15 this year while also almost doubled his missed tackle %.

Atkins was doing it against 2 OL and sometimes 2 OL + 1 RB, which is why it was so impressive, but also why he'd go a bit quiet at times even though that meant he was opening up everything for everyone else.

Hendrickson is still a hell of a pass rusher, though, and he's really on quite a run of sacks this year, only having 2 games this year where he's not recorded at least a half sack. That's real nice consistency. I just also know that outside of sacks he's only made 2 solo tackles and 1 assissted tackle over the last 5 games. It's largely sack or bust.

(Also just saw that Twatt retook the sack lead for now, blech.)

I guess I'd be more worried about Hendrickson's tackling and run defense if teams were clearly running at him and he was the reason we were getting steamrolled. I just haven't seen that.

Does Hendrickson not get doubled? Did Atkins never get singled?

Tbh, we're splitting hairs. They're both fantastic HOF caliber players. If Hendrickson hadn't gotten such a late start and wasn't already pushing 30, I think he'd be a shoe in HOF'er.

Geno is on the cusp. I think he should get in, but he did kinda fizzle at the end, which worries me. Especially with him being a Bengal. 

I personally would put him in, no question. One of the best pass rushing DT's of all-time.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-17-2023, 03:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I guess I'd be more worried about Hendrickson's tackling and run defense if teams were clearly running at him and he was the reason we were getting steamrolled. I just haven't seen that.

Does Hendrickson not get doubled? Did Atkins never get singled?

Tbh, we're splitting hairs. They're both fantastic HOF caliber players. If Hendrickson hadn't gotten such a late start and wasn't already pushing 30, I think he'd be a shoe in HOF'er.

Geno is on the cusp. I think he should get in, but he did kinda fizzle at the end, which worries me. Especially with him being a Bengal. 

I personally would put him in, no question. One of the best pass rushing DT's of all-time.

Ehhh... realistically Hendrickson doesn't stand a chance at being a HoF. The late start made it a long shot at best, and being the 3rd best pass rusher in his own division is the coffin nail. Can't get an All-Pro or All-Decade team nod while behind Twatt and Myles, and making it into the Hall with zero All-Pros is tough.

I think Atkins got solidified as a choice when he made the All-Decade team as apparently that's weighted pretty heavily by voters. 8+ Pro Bowls (I think that's also considered a pretty big threshold of accumulation for those), multiple 1st Teamm All-Pros, and an All Decade Team is pretty much a guarantee that you'll make it in eventually.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-17-2023, 05:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ehhh... realistically Hendrickson doesn't stand a chance at being a HoF. The late start made it a long shot at best, and being the 3rd best pass rusher in his own division is the coffin nail. Can't get an All-Pro or All-Decade team nod while behind Twatt and Myles, and making it into the Hall with zero All-Pros is tough.

I think Atkins got solidified as a choice when he made the All-Decade team as apparently that's weighted pretty heavily by voters. 8+ Pro Bowls (I think that's also considered a pretty big threshold of accumulation for those), multiple 1st Teamm All-Pros, and an All Decade Team is pretty much a guarantee that you'll make it in eventually.

Hence why I said if Hendrickson hadn't gotten such a late start. A guy who posts 12 to 15+ sacks every year gets in, regardless of all-pro's, if he has the cumulative stats that Hendrickson obviously won't have.

He also has a Super Bowl on his resume and balled out in the playoffs, unlike Geno, although I don't put that on Geno at all. More of a Marvin Lewis thing.

I do think Atkins gets in, although it won't be first ballot and probably not 2nd ballot. Our recent success will help him as well. Keeps attention on the franchise as well as our former players.

A couple more solid seasons probably would've made Geno get in quicker.