They were just guessing

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-13-2023, 02:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True, but what do you feel is the likelihood of the Bengals and J Williams coming to terms on a long term contract? 

Don't even know who will be in the market for a LT but i have to think it might be difficult for him to find a suitor. Might be in his best interest to stay with the same team, around guys he knows, with a team that's a legit SB contender for a while still. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-13-2023, 03:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Don't even know who will be in the market for a LT but i have to think it might be difficult for him to find a suitor. Might be in his best interest to stay with the same team, around guys he knows, with a team that's a legit SB contender for a while still. 

Sure, it's easy for us to say that, but he will have his agent in his ear telling him he's worth big LT $$$. With him being originally from Atlanta, I would think that any team in the southeast that came with a respectable offer would likely gain his services.

[Joelist]

So...not giving the play away by the formation and making the defense think helps? Who would've thunk it?

[HarleyDog]

(12-13-2023, 12:21 PM)SladeX Wrote: Joe needs to be a team player and adjust his play to the strengths of his line. Doesn’t like under center? Learn to like it…

I'm still not entirely sold it was all Joes decision.

(12-13-2023, 12:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Every one of Browning's 9 sacks have apparently come from shotgun.

This right here is startling. Hopefully ZT has learned.

(12-13-2023, 12:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Was there ever any explanation as to why the OL didn't play in preseason this year?

(12-13-2023, 01:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: On the opposite side, does a unit that has to operate with orchestrated precision like an OL really benefit from entering the regular season essentially 'cold'?  I've also read some opinions that counter the injury prevention aspect by suggesting that the lack of contact in preseason leaves the body more susceptible to injuries from not getting used to the shock of blocking/tackling/being tackled.

I can understand saving the wear and tear on your QB and even WRs, but the OL, RBs and TEs would seem to need that contact heading into the season.

I can understand both sides but I lean with your thinking on the increased possibility of injury. Plus, playing catch-up all friggen year sucks.

[Millhouse]

Mystify, mislead, and surprise is a sound strategy to have.

[HarleyDog]

(12-13-2023, 06:01 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Mystify, mislead, and surprise is a sound strategy to have.

I have 3 ex-wives who would agree with you. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-13-2023, 05:39 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm still not entirely sold it was all Joes decision.

Yeah the fact that we didn't change the offense that 1st week against Pitt makes me think our coaches liked the offense we were running. Then still continued throwing the Chase screens in the beginning of the Jax game still points to that. Also really thinking about the Chase screens on there own. I get the whole Joe had the ability to throw the RPO and we did the screen to Chase alot. But they were seriously ineffective and we should've been able to see this in the stats. Plus Chase just didn't seem great at them and body language should've shown it just wasn't in his wheel house. Not sure that I buy Joe and him being such good friends he wasn't picking up on this but it could happen.

[*michaelsean*]

Well the best do go under center and do turn their back to the D for PA. Wanna be the best then you have to be able to do it all.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-13-2023, 01:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: On the opposite side, does a unit that has to operate with orchestrated precision like an OL really benefit from entering the regular season essentially 'cold'?  I've also read some opinions that counter the injury prevention aspect by suggesting that the lack of contact in preseason leaves the body more susceptible to injuries from not getting used to the shock of blocking/tackling/being tackled.

I can understand saving the wear and tear on your QB and even WRs, but the OL, RBs and TEs would seem to need that contact heading into the season.

I don’t know which philosophy is right but Ted Karras was effusive in his praise of Zac managing their bodies. Said he was the best in the NFL

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-13-2023, 11:55 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is what the OL reported to Coach Frank Pollack on the sidelines of last Sunday's game, in response to Colts DL attempting to call out Bengal plays based upon formation and personnel.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/they-were-just-guessing-bengals-broke-tendencies-mixed-up-colts-calling-out-plays/ar-AA1lptzh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=84e7f9ac556746a684d09385a1c014e0&ei=58

Great thread and article Sunset. I hope to be hearing these types of things the rest of the season. It is so refreshing after Burrow 
went down and seeing our Offense flourish and be unpredictable. Joe better start liking putting his back to the Defense because it
is a winning way. I think he will buy in and get comfortable doing this next year. We will see, no one can argue with the success of
our OL and Offense the last few games with Jake Downtown Browning.

BTW, most know I always liked Pollack before this season and I am still for a new OL coach as this took entirely too long for this 
OL to play well. But being in the Gun all the time with Burrow being injured DID put the OL in bad situations a ton this year.

Volson is finally playing better etc.

[Joelist]

Being in shotgun as part of a mix is OL neutral; being in shotgun all the time is OL unfriendly. Passing as part (even a majority part) of a mix is again OL neutral while passing predominantly (like we were doing before the injury) is again OL unfriendly. It's not a coincidence that the OL blossoms at the same time we go to a balanced attack between run and pass and also more balanced between under center and shotgun. Our old way basically tipped the defense to the play and let them tee off - this way makes them think and lets the OL get into a groove.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-14-2023, 03:20 PM)Joelist Wrote: Being in shotgun as part of a mix is OL neutral; being in shotgun all the time is OL unfriendly. Passing as part (even a majority part) of a mix is again OL neutral while passing predominantly (like we were doing before the injury) is again OL unfriendly. It's not a coincidence that the OL blossoms at the same time we go to a balanced attack between run and pass and also more balanced between under center and shotgun. Our old way basically tipped the defense to the play and let them tee off - this way makes them think and lets the OL get into a groove.

Burrow loves to play with fire man. Problem is it evens the playing field.

As great as Burrow is when healthy, even the best cannot just go out there and destroy NFL Defenses at will passing out of the Gun
all the time. He needs to have a running game to throw Defenses off and play under Center in order to really open up the playbook.

We all are seeing it now with Jake, including Joe. He knows it. O-lineman like to be aggressive, not passive, just a fact. Being in the 
Shotgun allows the Defense to pin their ears back far too much instead of playing on their heels when they have to guess what is 
coming.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-14-2023, 03:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Burrow loves to play with fire man. Problem is it evens the playing field.

As great as Burrow is when healthy, even the best cannot just go out there and destroy NFL Defenses at will passing out of the Gun
all the time. He needs to have a running game to throw Defenses off and play under Center in order to really open up the playbook.

We all are seeing it now with Jake, including Joe. He knows it. O-lineman like to be aggressive, not passive, just a fact. Being in the 
Shotgun allows the Defense to pin their ears back far too much instead of playing on their heels when they have to guess what is 
coming.

Exactly

All kinds of things can and will happen. The wind is blowing 30 MPH in an open stadium, it's cold and snowing, couple WR's are missing the game due to injury, Joe's throwing thumb is tender from getting stepped on. The list is basically endless.

Look I love Joe Burrow ! He's the best thing to happen to Cincinnati in a long, LONG, time. I understand he likes shotgun and empty sets. But, and it's a BIG BUTT!! You can't put all your eggs in that basket and just be like we'll live or die with our flag planted on this hill come hell or high water.

They would be waaayyyyy better off with other tools in the tool box. Using and sticking with the run. Using under center a good bit more. As great as he is stop relying on JB to put on the Superman cape all game long every flipping game all season long.

Keep opposing D's off balance

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-14-2023, 03:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great thread and article Sunset. I hope to be hearing these types of things the rest of the season. It is so refreshing after Burrow 
went down and seeing our Offense flourish and be unpredictable. Joe better start liking putting his back to the Defense because it
is a winning way. I think he will buy in and get comfortable doing this next year. We will see, no one can argue with the success of
our OL and Offense the last few games with Jake Downtown Browning.

BTW, most know I always liked Pollack before this season and I am still for a new OL coach as this took entirely too long for this 
OL to play well. But being in the Gun all the time with Burrow being injured DID put the OL in bad situations a ton this year.

Volson is finally playing better etc.

Being fair to Joe ....Cally said they had been working on going more under center in camp, then the calf happened. We saw him do VERY well in SF with the offense looking more like the current version than the first four weeks of this year. They were doing pretty good in Baltimore too before his wrist. I think he will embrace it, especially after getting to watch it on the sidelines. He's even told Jake he's seeing the same things Jake is. 

Absolutely agree with your post though.

[tms]

(12-13-2023, 03:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Those runs, PAs and screens were always there, it's just that Joe didn't/wouldn't run them.

PAs out of the gun always drove me crazy. The success of the PA relies on the drop. You're not fooling anyone if you're not under center, largely because DLs haven't even had time to make a decision yet. There are some exceptions, but not as many as one would think. I'm glad we're using more of a traditional playbook like this. 

Great article. Thanks for posting SB.

[grampahol]

Play action from the gun is like playing hide and seek in the middle of a really big, flat, well manicured field wearing bright colored clothing ..You'd think someone would've figured that out by now, huh?

[KillerGoose]

(12-15-2023, 12:06 PM)tms Wrote: PAs out of the gun always drove me crazy. The success of the PA relies on the drop. You're not fooling anyone if you're not under center, largely because DLs haven't even had time to make a decision yet. There are some exceptions, but not as many as one would think. I'm glad we're using more of a traditional playbook like this. 

Great article. Thanks for posting SB.

Playaction works fine from shotgun but what we are normally seeing is not playaction, but RPOs. Cincinnati has been running significantly more RPOs this season. It's another way of generating conflict. You're trying to create conflict in the linebackers and secondary, not the DL. The idea is to freeze them or make them move off their spot. If PA from shotgun didn't work, then no one would use it but it is heavily used throughout every level of football, including the NFL. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-14-2023, 10:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly

All kinds of things can and will happen. The wind is blowing 30 MPH in an open stadium, it's cold and snowing, couple WR's are missing the game due to injury, Joe's throwing thumb is tender from getting stepped on. The list is basically endless.

Look I love Joe Burrow ! He's the best thing to happen to Cincinnati in a long, LONG, time. I understand he likes shotgun and empty sets. But, and it's a BIG BUTT!! You can't put all your eggs in that basket and just be like we'll live or die with our flag planted on this hill come hell or high water.

They would be waaayyyyy better off with other tools in the tool box. Using and sticking with the run. Using under center a good bit more. As great as he is stop relying on JB to put on the Superman cape all game long every flipping game all season long.

Keep opposing D's off balance

Well said, so much can go wrong when you pass as well, no matter how good you are and Joe Burrow might be the most accurate
QB of all time. But it still doesn't matter, you need to be able to run the ball and be unpredictable. Under Center QB play is key to this 
and lets the RB hit the hole faster which in turn helps out the OL so they don't have to hold their blocks near as long.

(12-15-2023, 11:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: Being fair to Joe ....Cally said they had been working on going more under center in camp, then the calf happened. We saw him do VERY well in SF with the offense looking more like the current version than the first four weeks of this year. They were doing pretty good in Baltimore too before his wrist. I think he will embrace it, especially after getting to watch it on the sidelines. He's even told Jake he's seeing the same things Jake is. 

Absolutely agree with your post though.

Very true, Joe can do it and did it very well in the 49ers game. I completely agree and think Joe will embrace this Offense much 
more as hopefully he will be healthy to start out the season next year for once. The calf injury screwed everything up.

I cannot imagine how good this Offense can be with Burrow distributing the ball from under Center most of the time with a 
running game and Chase and Chase. Could be epic. 

[SladeX]

(12-15-2023, 02:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said, so much can go wrong when you pass as well, no matter how good you are and Joe Burrow might be the most accurate
QB of all time. But it still doesn't matter, you need to be able to run the ball and be unpredictable. Under Center QB play is key to this 
and lets the RB hit the hole faster which in turn helps out the OL so they don't have to hold their blocks near as long.


Very true, Joe can do it and did it very well in the 49ers game. I completely agree and think Joe will embrace this Offense much 
more as hopefully he will be healthy to start out the season next year for once. The calf injury screwed everything up.

I cannot imagine how good this Offense can be with Burrow distributing the ball from under Center most of the time with a 
running game and Chase and Chase. Could be epic. 

Or how about this, and I’m down with it 110%

The offense morphs from week to week depending upon what style of D the opponent runs, or what their injury situation is, or ours for that matter. Do shotgun , spread one week, under center playaction the next week , etc

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-15-2023, 08:55 PM)SladeX Wrote: Or how about this, and I’m down with it 110%

The offense morphs from week to week depending upon what style of D the opponent runs, or what their injury situation is, or ours for that matter. Do shotgun , spread one week, under center playaction the next week , etc

I like that too as long as it works SladeX.