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Well, I thought I'd start an off-season roster thread a bit early. I apologize for abandoning the 2023 thread mid-season. I admit I lost my appetite once Burrow went down. Will try to be better this seaon.
Here is our roster heading Into the last game.
A. 53 Man Roster
I. Offense = 26
QB (2): Browning, McCarron
RB (4): Mixon, T. Williams, C. Brown, Evans
WR (6): Chase, Higgins, Boyd; Irwin, Iosivas, C. Jones
TE (4): D. Sample, I. Smith, Hudson, Wilcox
OT (5): O. Brown, J. Williams, Ford, Carman, D. Smith
OG (3/4): Cappa, Volson, Scharping (Ford)
C (2): Karras, T. Hill
II. Defense = 24
DE (5): Hendrickson, Hubbard, C. Sample, Murphy, Ossai
NT/DT (5): BJ Hill, Tupou, Carter, Tufele, Bell
LB (6): Wilson, Pratt; ADG, Bailey, Bachie, Harper
CB (5): CTB, Awuzie, Hilton; Turner, J. Davis
S (3): Battle, D. Hill; Scott
III. Specials
PK: McPherson
P: Robbins
LS: Adomitis
B. Injured Reserve
1. Burrow, QB
2. Reader, NT
3. Ivey, CB
4. Anderson, S
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5. Cochran, OT, PS
6. Marshall, DT/NT, PS
7. Kirkland, OL, PS
C. Practice Squad = 15
1. QB: Plitt
2. RB: Felton
3. WR: Morgan
4. WR: Jackson
5. WR: Lassiter II
6. WR: Pryor
7. TE: Gentry
8. C: Gilliam
9. DE: Gunter
10. DT: D. Davis
11. LB: Johnston
12. LB: Heyward
13: CB: S. Jones
14. CB: George
15. S: M. Thomas
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Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
"Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
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Practice Squad players signed to futures contracts. They will not count until Feb 12
DT Domenique Davis
CB Allan George
C Nate Gilliam
DE Jeff Gunter
LB Shaka Heyward
WR Shedrick Jackson
G Jaxson Kirkland (Practice Squad/Injured list)
WR Kwamie Lassiter II
WR Kendric Pryor
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I missed the Raiders signing Gentry off our practice squad late on.
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I will put the roster into 90 man, camp mode. 3 sections: signed players on the regular roster (count towards cap & roster limits), future's contracts (do not count vs camp/roster limits until spring, can't negotiate with other teams), and our FA's.
A. Signed Players = 38
I. Offense = 14
QB (1): Burrow (IR)
RB (3): Mixon; C. Brown, Evans
WR (3): Chase; Iosivas, C. Jones
TE (0):
OT (3): O. Brown; Carman, D. Smith
OG (2): Cappa, Volson
C (2): Karras, T. Hill
II. Defense = 22
DE (5): Hendrickson, Hubbard, C. Sample, Murphy, Ossai
NT/DT (5): BJ Hill; Carter, Tufele, Bell; Maxwell (PS/IR)
LB (3): Wilson, Pratt; Harper
CB (5): CTB, Hilton; Turner, Ivey (IR), J. Davis
S (4): Battle, D. Hill; Scott, Anderson (IR)
III. Specials = 2
PK (1): McPherson
P (1): Robbins
LS (0):
II. Future's Contracts = 9 (cannot negotiate with other teams, don't count vs cap or roster limits till Spring).
1. WR: Jackson
2. WR: Lassiter II
3. WR: Pryor
4. G/OT: Kirkland (IR)
5. C/G: Gilliam
6. DE: Gunter
7. DT: Davis
8. LB: Heyward
9. CB: George
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III. Free Agents
A. ERFA's = 3. (must stay if we make an offer)
1. QB: Browning
2. LS: Adomitis
3. OT: Cochran (IR/PS)
B. RFA's = 2. (we can match).
1. WR: Irwin
2. TE: Wilcox
OTC has them as UFA's, and Spotrac as RFA's. But I think each has only 3 accrued seasons (6+ games on active roster/IR). Irwin in '21, '22, and '23 (but not '19 or '20) and Wilcox in the same 3 years but not in '20 (PS guy). If I am wrong on this, let me know.
C. UFA's = 22 (16 roster/+6 Practice Squad)
A. Offense
1. WR: Higgins
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2. WR: Boyd
3. RT: J. Williams
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4. TE: Hudson (Spotrac has RFA, wrongly)
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5. TE: D. Sample
6. RB: T. Williams
7. OT/G: Ford
8. OG/C: Scharping
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9. QB: McCarron
10. TE: I. Smith
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11. WR: Morgan (PS)
12. RB: Felton (PS)
13. QB: Plitt (PS)
*Hudson has 6+ games played in 4 different NFL seasons. I don't see how he his a RFA.
B. Defense
1. NT: Reader
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2. CB: Awuzie
------------
3. NT: Tupou
4. LB: Davis-Gaither
---------
5. LB: Bailey
6. LB: Bachie
----------
7. LB: Johnston (PS)
8. CB: S. Jones (PS)
9. S: M. Thomas (PS)
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If you believe in Dax Hill and Turner as starters next year, then Reader is the only starter void on D entering FA. Not saying we could not upgrade a spot or two (DT, S, CB) or improve the depth.
But offense has just as many depth issues (OL, TE, RB, WR) plus 4 open starting spits (RT, WR2, WR3, TE).
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I don’t know outside the free agent holes looming there’s a huge need. We have good cap space. I’d expect we re-sign Chido. I’d expect we resign D J on a 1 year deal. I’d expect we sign in FA a DT. I’d expect if we tag Tee ( expect) we posture towards a RT in the first round. In the second round they go with best player available that’s a TE or RB. After that all depth related.
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
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Important NFL off-season dates:
1/8: First day teams can sign free agents who were not under contract/on a roster for 2023 (the Furlryre's Contract guys).
1/8: Earliest possible date to renegotiate or extend rookie contracts for 2021 rookie draftees or 2022 undrafted rookies (Chase).
1/8: Teams can exercise 5th year options on 2021 first round picks (Chase).
1/15: Special eligibility application deadline for college underclassman to enter the draft.
2/20-3/5: Window for teams to designate Franchise and Teansition players.
3/11 Noon to 3/13 4 pm EST: FA negotiating window starts.
3/13: 4pm. FA signing period & trade period open.
4/15: Offseadon workouts can begin for teams with returning head coaches.
4/19: Deadline for RFA's to sign Oglffer sheets.
4/24: Deadline for teams to exercise right of first refusal on RFA's who signed offer sheets.
4/25-27: NFL Draft
5/2: Deadline to exercise 5th year options on 2021 1st rounders.
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(01-09-2024, 03:10 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: If you believe in Dax Hill and Turner as starters next year, then Reader is the only starter void on D entering FA. Not saying we could not upgrade a spot or two (DT, S, CB) or improve the depth.
But offense has just as many depth issues (OL, TE, RB, WR) plus 4 open starting spits (RT, WR2, WR3, TE).
.
I would consider Corner Stephon Gilmore on a 1 year deal at around $10 million.
Not sold on it yet but would consider.
A lot depends on the Tee decision as to what holes can be upgraded versus filled.
A solid Veteran RT & very good veteran DT seem more important to me than S, CB, LG, WR3 or TE & the Draft can be used as well.
*I am in the Super Bowl Win now mindset. A PLAN that aims to Win it all in 2025 would be my Goal. Not just any Plan.
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(01-09-2024, 03:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I don’t know outside the free agent holes looming there’s a huge need. We have good cap space. I’d expect we re-sign Chido. I’d expect we resign D J on a 1 year deal. I’d expect we sign in FA a DT. I’d expect if we tag Tee ( expect) we posture towards a RT in the first round. In the second round they go with best player available that’s a TE or RB. After that all depth related.
Agree in the main, though I think Reader will be a multiple year deal with incentives. IDK on Chido.
Agree 100% on Tee & DJ coming back and DT (3T) being the #1 FA priority for a new face. And, accordingly, OT being the focus in Rd1.
Disagree on RB or TE being a priority in Rd2. I think WR (Boyd replacement), NT (even with Reader back), and CB/S all rate as higher priorities. Though I would not rule TE/RB out in Rd3, I think Rd2 is too high. Not a particularly strong draft for either. I could handle Stover or Braelin Allen in Rd3, though.
I expect Mixon & Brown to be RB1/RB2 next year. I also expect D. Sample & Hudson back at TE. Probably T. Williams as well. Wilcox likely though not sure he makes the roster if we only carry 3.
Dream Scenario:
1. FA: Get Higgins signed for around $20 mil per
2. FA: Sign Reader for reasonable.
3. FA: Land DT big fish (Jones, Wilkins, Madubuike).
4. FA: Keep at least 1 of Chido/Boyd
5. Draft: Rd1: RT (Mims, Fuaga)
6. Draft Rd 2: NT (Sweat), or WR if Boyd gone (Legette, Polk), or CB if Chido (Burke, Tampa), or S (Nubin).
If we whiff on a DT in FA, then maybe we make a run at Winfield or a corner or Schultz (though I doubt it). And maybe a DT is in play in Rd2 (Murphy).
Only a guy like Bowers, Newton, or DeJean might make me get off OT at #18.
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(01-09-2024, 03:49 PM)depthchart Wrote: .
I would consider Corner Stephon Gilmore on a 1 year deal at around $10 million.
Not sold on it yet but would consider.
A lot depends on the Tee decision as to what holes can be upgraded versus filled.
A solid Veteran RT & very good veteran DT seem more important to me than S, CB, LG, WR3 or TE & the Draft can be used as well.
*I am in the Super Bowl Win now mindset. A PLAN that aims to Win it all in 2025 would be my Goal. Not just any Plan.
Gilmore will be 34 years old next season... granted he has been solid with the Cowboys the last 2 years.
A solid Veteran RT & very good veteran DT - agree we need these in FA.
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FWIW, Final PFF for our guys. I do not have a subscription. Also included snaps.
QB: Burrow, 77.9, 602 Off
RB: Mixon, 71.1, 752 Off
WR1: Chase, 85.3, 890 Off
WR2: Higgins, 72.1, 573 Off, 1 ST
WR3: Boyd, 59.5, 824 Off, 1 ST
TE: I. Smith, 44.2, 330 Off
LT: O. Brown, 66.1, 1,059 Off, 71 ST
LG: Volson, 58.3, 1,088 Off, 72 ST
C: Karras, 67.4, 1,076 Off, 66 ST
RG: Cappa, 64.9, 1,067 Off
RT: J. Williams, 58.5, 1,088 Off, 72 ST
-----------
QB2: Browning, 79.3, 469 Off
QB3: McCarron, 59.0, 17 Off
RB2: T. Williams, 58.9, 156 Off, 294 ST
RB3: C. Brown, 63.9, 93 Off, 160 ST
RB4: Evans, 51.9, 24 Off, 122 ST
WR4: Irwin, 57.0, 429 Off, 22 ST
WR5: Iosivas, 61.2, 266 Off, 217 ST
WR6: C. Jones, 65.8, 44 Off, 52 ST
TE2: D. Sample, 60.0, 497 Off, 199 ST
TE3: Hudson, 73.0, 276 Off, 31 ST
TE4: Wilcox, 46.7, 230 Off, 316 ST
OT3/G: Ford, 53.9, 79 Off, 72 ST
OG3/C: Scharping, 78.1, 13 Off, 72 ST
OT/OG: Carman, 56.6, 12 Off, 1 ST
C/G: T. Hill, no snaps
OT/OG: D. Smith, no snaps
------------------
WR7: Jackson, 60.7, 5 Off, 38 ST
WR8: Morgan Jr., NR, 4 Off, 52 ST
WR9: Lassiter II, 58.4, 5 Off
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I justcwanted to point out that BJ Hill graded our pretty well this year at PF. And while Carter certainly was not that impactful (other than that Vikings game), he was borderline playable.
If we spend for a vet DT, I think it needs to be a big swing for it to be a Hill upgrade. Otherwise, I think a Rd2-4 pick and FA spending elsewhere might be more efficient.
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(01-09-2024, 04:09 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agree in the main, though I think Reader will be a multiple year deal with incentives. IDK on Chido.
Agree 100% on Tee & DJ coming back and DT (3T) being the #1 FA priority for a new face. And, accordingly, OT being the focus in Rd1.
Disagree on RB or TE being a priority in Rd2. I think WR (Boyd replacement), NT (even with Reader back), and CB/S all rate as higher priorities. Though I would not rule TE/RB out in Rd3, I think Rd2 is too high. Not a particularly strong draft for either. I could handle Stover or Braelin Allen in Rd3, though.
I expect Mixon & Brown to be RB1/RB2 next year. I also expect D. Sample & Hudson back at TE. Probably T. Williams as well. Wilcox likely though not sure he makes the roster if we only carry 3.
Dream Scenario:
1. FA: Get Higgins signed for around $20 mil per
2. FA: Sign Reader for reasonable.
3. FA: Land DT big fish (Jones, Wilkins, Madubuike).
4. FA: Keep at least 1 of Chido/Boyd
5. Draft: Rd1: RT (Mims, Fuaga)
6. Draft Rd 2: NT (Sweat), or WR if Boyd gone (Legette, Polk), or CB if Chido (Burke, Tampa), or S (Nubin).
If we whiff on a DT in FA, then maybe we make a run at Winfield or a corner or Schultz (though I doubt it). And maybe a DT is in play in Rd2 (Murphy).
Only a guy like Bowers, Newton, or DeJean might make me get off OT at #18.
I was reading your other post and saw we were pretty close then I saw you responded to me. We are on the same page mostly.Lou will make the call I’d expect on Chido. Zac likes him a lot. I’d imagine on Boyd, Chido, and DJ they get solid 1 or maybe 2 year offers at reasonable amounts. It will probably be up to them but I’d expect the door from the Bengals still open if they can’t find a better deal. I’d expect it will be tough decisions for them. In both Boyd & Chico’s case we’ve got a young player with experience if either falters the next few years. They could be backups.
I think like I said they go for a DT in FA. Draft a RT in 1. We disagree on round 2 of the draft. I’ve heard they’ve finally convinced themselves they need a dynamic TE. They are tired of 1 year rentals. But Brown is not big enough to pass pro and Joe Mixon needs to be the third down and power back. If he’s gonna stick he has to be better in pass pro. Brown is no power back. So I expect BPA that’s a TE or RB at 2.
There’s nothing wrong with the roster. It’s got holes but so does everybody. They are fixable but if we are going to win the SB next year we need Charlie Jones, Iosivas, Chase Brown, Myles Murphy, Jordan Battle & the top rookies to deliver like young players for Baltimore and KC and Detroit have
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
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(01-09-2024, 04:28 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Gilmore will be 34 years old next season... granted he has been solid with the Cowboys the last 2 years.
A solid Veteran RT & very good veteran DT - agree we need these in FA.
Gilmore's age would be my only concern plus the Money going that position direction. (Corner)
But Gilmore is a tough, experienced Veteran that could be a nice piece for a Super Bowl run.
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(01-09-2024, 04:51 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was reading your other post and saw we were pretty close then I saw you responded to me. We are on the same page mostly.Lou will make the call I’d expect on Chido. Zac likes him a lot. I’d imagine on Boyd, Chido, and DJ they get solid 1 or maybe 2 year offers at reasonable amounts. It will probably be up to them but I’d expect the door from the Bengals still open if they can’t find a better deal. I’d expect it will be tough decisions for them. In both Boyd & Chico’s case we’ve got a young player with experience if either falters the next few years. They could be backups.
I think like I said they go for a DT in FA. Draft a RT in 1. We disagree on round 2 of the draft. I’ve heard they’ve finally convinced themselves they need a dynamic TE. They are tired of 1 year rentals. But Brown is not big enough to pass pro and Joe Mixon needs to be the third down and power back. If he’s gonna stick he has to be better in pass pro. Brown is no power back. So I expect BPA that’s a TE or RB at 2.
There’s nothing wrong with the roster. It’s got holes but so does everybody. They are fixable but if we are going to win the SB next year we need Charlie Jones, Iosivas, Chase Brown, Myles Murphy, Jordan Battle & the top rookies to deliver like young players for Baltimore and KC and Detroit have
I do not buy for a second that Charlie Jones or Iosivas will start for Boyd next year.
If we re-sign Tee, Reader, Chido AND land a big time DT in FA, that is basically all the cap space. They are not really any dynamic TEs in this draft outside of Bowers & Sanders.
Plugging the holes at WR (2 guys), DT/NT (likely 2-3 guys), RT, and getting better secondary play are my priorities. Those are more premium positions.
There are not any dynamic TEs in this draft beyond Bowers & Sanders. Bowers will be gone and Sanders in Rd2 is iffy. If he is even there. I think Stover/Lachey/Johnson in Rd3-4 or even 5 is more likely. I'd certainly make a run at Dalton Schultz if we whiff on DTs. I'd rather pay him than Boyd or Chido at this point.
RB just isn't a need. Mixon is fine for now. Brown showed flashes and is fine at RB2. T. Williams was fine at RB3 and is cheap. Evans is signed. RB3/RB4 could use an upgrade, sure. And Mixon is coming to the end of the line. I'd like a bigger guy: Allen or the kid from ND.
But WR3, RT, fixing the run D, and landing a cheaper/dependable secondary guy (CB or S) are all above TE for me. I can live with Hudson & Sample if I have too.
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(01-09-2024, 05:01 PM)depthchart Wrote: Gilmore's age would be my only concern plus the Money going that position direction. (Corner)
But Gilmore is a tough, experienced Veteran that could be a nice piece for a Super Bowl run.
We may be able to keep Chido at a much lower cost than previously expected.
He went from 41% in 2021 and 56% (2022) in reception rate to 68% this year. Not 100% coming back from the ACL?
If he has a fully healthy offseason and if the Safeties improve, he could have a bounce back year next season at an affordable rate.
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(01-09-2024, 05:13 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I do not buy for a second that Charlie Jones or Iosivas will start for Boyd next year.
If we re-sign Tee, Reader, Chido AND land a big time DT in FA, that is basically all the cap space. They are not really any dynamic TEs in this draft outside of Bowers & Sanders.
Plugging the holes at WR (2 guys), DT/NT (likely 2-3 guys), RT, and getting better secondary play are my priorities. Those are more premium positions.
There are not any dynamic TEs in this draft beyond Bowers & Sanders. Bowers will be gone and Sanders in Rd2 is iffy. If he is even there. I think Stover/Lachey/Johnson in Rd3-4 or even 5 is more likely. I'd certainly make a run at Dalton Schultz if we whiff on DTs. I'd rather pay him than Boyd or Chido at this point.
RB just isn't a need. Mixon is fine for now. Brown showed flashes and is fine at RB2. T. Williams was fine at RB3 and is cheap. Evans is signed. RB3/RB4 could use an upgrade, sure. And Mixon is coming to the end of the line. I'd like a bigger guy: Allen or the kid from ND.
But WR3, RT, fixing the run D, and landing a cheaper/dependable secondary guy (CB or S) are all above TE for me. I can live with Hudson & Sample if I have too.
I’ve not looked at the TE draft so you may be right. I’m not saying I expect Boyd to get beat out. But I’m obviously higher on both Jones & Iosivas than you. But I’m not sure Boyd can hold them off all year or next. Mixon is 228 he’s pretty big.
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(01-09-2024, 03:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I will put the roster into 90 man, camp mode. 3 sections: signed players on the regular roster (count towards cap & roster limits), future's contracts (do not count vs camp/roster limits until spring, can't negotiate with other teams), and our FA's.
A. Signed Players = 38
I. Offense = 14
QB (1): Burrow (IR)
RB (3): Mixon; C. Brown, Evans
WR (3): Chase; Iosivas, C. Jones
TE (0):
OT (3): O. Brown; Carman, D. Smith
OG (2): Cappa, Volson
C (2): Karras, T. Hill
II. Defense = 22
DE (5): Hendrickson, Hubbard, C. Sample, Murphy, Ossai
NT/DT (5): BJ Hill; Carter, Tufele, Bell; Maxwell (PS/IR)
LB (3): Wilson, Pratt; Harper
CB (5): CTB, Hilton; Turner, Ivey (IR), J. Davis
S (4): Battle, D. Hill; Scott, Anderson (IR)
III. Specials = 2
PK (1): McPherson
P (1): Robbins
LS (0):
II. Future's Contracts = 9 (cannot negotiate with other teams, don't count vs cap or roster limits till Spring).
1. WR: Jackson
2. WR: Lassiter II
3. WR: Pryor
4. G/OT: Kirkland (IR)
5. C/G: Gilliam
6. DE: Gunter
7. DT: Davis
8. LB: Heyward
9. CB: George
--------
III. Free Agents
A. ERFA's = 3. (must stay if we make an offer)
1. QB: Browning
2. LS: Adomitis
3. OT: Cochran (IR/PS)
B. RFA's = 2. (we can match).
1. WR: Irwin
2. TE: Wilcox
OTC has them as UFA's, and Spotrac as RFA's. But I think each has only 3 accrued seasons (6+ games on active roster/IR). Irwin in '21, '22, and '23 (but not '19 or '20) and Wilcox in the same 3 years but not in '20 (PS guy). If I am wrong on this, let me know.
C. UFA's = 22 (16 roster/+6 Practice Squad)
A. Offense
1. WR: Higgins
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2. WR: Boyd
3. RT: J. Williams
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4. TE: Hudson (Spotrac has RFA, wrongly)
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5. TE: D. Sample
6. RB: T. Williams
7. OT/G: Ford
8. OG/C: Scharping
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9. QB: McCarron
10. TE: I. Smith
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11. WR: Morgan (PS)
12. RB: Felton (PS)
13. QB: Plitt (PS)
*Hudson has 6+ games played in 4 different NFL seasons. I don't see how he his a RFA.
B. Defense
1. NT: Reader
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2. CB: Awuzie
------------
3. NT: Tupou
4. LB: Davis-Gaither
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5. LB: Bailey
6. LB: Bachie
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7. LB: Johnston (PS)
8. CB: S. Jones (PS)
9. S: M. Thomas (PS)
I didn’t even realize that with Hudson. I was thinking he was a lock to be back as a RFA. Even the Bengals list him on their roster as having 4 years of experience. That stinks for us.
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(01-09-2024, 05:26 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve not looked at the TE draft so you may be right. I’m not saying I expect Boyd to get beat out. But I’m obviously higher on both Jones & Iosivas than you. But I’m not sure Boyd can hold them off all year or next. Mixon is 228 he’s pretty big.
I like both Jones and Iosivas, but I do not think either is ready to start on a SB level team.
As for Boyd, I expect he won't be here. So that means we will have to go get a WR on day 2, or prior in FA. If Boyd is back, we can take WR off the board for draft purposes.
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