Potential Restructures

[Knightmare on Elm Street]

Although the team will have roughly $60 million (depending on what report you believe) to spend in free agency, are there any players that the front office could approach for possible restructures to save some cap space? I am think maybe Hubbard, Hill and maybe Cappa? Thoughts?

[Whatever]

(01-12-2024, 03:50 PM)Knightmare on Elm Street Wrote: Although the team will have roughly $60 million (depending on what report you believe) to spend in free agency, are there any players that the front office could approach for possible restructures to save some cap space? I am think maybe Hubbard, Hill and maybe Cappa? Thoughts?

Hill is in the last year of his deal, so he's probably looking more at a potential cut than restructure.

Hubbard could clear up $3 mil or so, logically.  Though he could be a cut candidate if Murphy develops.

Hendrickson could be a restructure possibility as part of an extension.

Mixon is possible, although he should probably just be cut.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2024, 03:50 PM)Knightmare on Elm Street Wrote: Although the team will have roughly $60 million (depending on what report you believe) to spend in free agency, are there any players that the front office could approach for possible restructures to save some cap space? I am think maybe Hubbard, Hill and maybe Cappa? Thoughts?

While the Bengals are projected to have roughly $60-70 mill cap, they have the following guys they either need to re-sign or replace with another:
- DJ reader
- Tee Higgins
- Tyler Boyd
- Jonah Williams
- Chidobe Awuzie
- Max Scharping
- Irv Smith
- Tanner Hudson
- Drew Sample
- Mitchell Wilcox
- Trenton Irwin
- Trayveon Williams
- Josh Tupou
- ADG
- Markus Bailey
- Joe Bachie
- Cal Adomitis
- Cody Ford
- Jake Browning/AJ McCarron

That's 19 spots the Bengals have to re-sign/replace, and each player costs ~$1 mill at minimum.


So let's be optimistic and say 5-10 of those guys re-sign so cut your cap down by $10 mill at minimum.
Let's also cut out another $5-10 mill for draft picks to fill more spots.

That cap has now dwindled down to $40-50 mill and you still gotta worry about some pretty big spots to fill.
It could be more like $30 mill depending on how expensive some of those backup-types cost higher than $1 mill.

[jj22]

Mixon was the first time in awhile (that I can remember) I've seen them "redo" a deal to lower the cap hit. Not a restructure. They just don't operate like that.

[007BengalsFan]

(01-12-2024, 05:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: Hill is in the last year of his deal, so he's probably looking more at a potential cut than restructure.

Hubbard could clear up $3 mil or so, logically.  Though he could be a cut candidate if Murphy develops.

Hendrickson could be a restructure possibility as part of an extension.

Mixon is possible, although he should probably just be cut.

BJ Hill is an above average tackle but certainly not great.   Im not sure he is worth 10 million a year but we cant cut him because who would that leave us at tackle?  Reader is a free agent so right now he is not part of the team plus he is injured.  Tupou isnt very good but he is a free agent too.  That would leave us with who? Carter and Tufele as the starting tackles?  Even if you could somehow sign Madubuike you would probably want to keep Hill so you at least have two quality starting defensive tackles.

Hubbard I dont think is worth 10 million either but he is above average and his dead cap hit would be 4 million this year.  I would rather keep Hubbard at least for 1 more year than lose an above average defensive end and have a 4 million cap hit to do it.

Hendrickson is signed for another 2 years.  Im not sure the Bengals extend him after they extended him last year.

Mixon being cut would save the Bengals 6 million in cap space but Im not sure the Bengals do that after Mixon agreed to redo his contract last year.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2024, 07:30 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: BJ Hill is an above average tackle but certainly not great.   Im not sure he is worth 10 million a year but we cant cut him because who would that leave us at tackle?  Reader is a free agent so right now he is not part of the team plus he is injured.  Tupou isnt very good but he is a free agent too.  That would leave us with who? Carter and Tufele as the starting tackles?  Even if you could somehow sign Madubuike you would probably want to keep Hill so you at least have two quality starting defensive tackles.

Hubbard I dont think is worth 10 million either but he is above average and his dead cap hit would be 4 million this year.  I would rather keep Hubbard at least for 1 more year than lose an above average defensive end and have a 4 million cap hit to do it.

Hendrickson is signed for another 2 years.  Im not sure the Bengals extend him after they extended him last year.

Mixon being cut would save the Bengals 6 million in cap space but Im not sure the Bengals do that after Mixon agreed to redo his contract last year.

BJ Hill is absolutely worth his contract.  Don't believe me?  Imagine if we cut him and tried to replace him via free agency.  Who has proven his stats or greater that would sign for less money?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

The key part of restructuring a guy's contract is that you are pushing cap hits into the future. That means you are either commiting to them being on your team for multiple years or are going to eat a large dead cap hit if you want to eventually move on. They have to be under contract for at least 2 more years (or you have to do void years which means dead cap) and they need a good sized base salary as that is what you will be turning into a signing bonus to prorate.

So I would actually lean more towards Burrow ($10.7m base salary), Hendrickson ($14.8m base salary) and probably Cappa ($6m base salary) as the three guys who you are probable fine fully commiting in advance that you will keep them for their entire contract.

Capwise you could clear almost $8m with Burrow, $7.5m with Hendrickson, and $2.5m with Cappa if you needed to for about $18m more in 2024 cap space. ($24m if we cut Mixon)

Don't think our FO really operates like that, though. Never trying to get the most talent they can fit now to try to win. It also means more cash having to be spent now by them.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-12-2024, 06:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While the Bengals are projected to have roughly $60-70 mill cap, they have the following guys they either need to re-sign or replace with another:
- DJ reader
- Tee Higgins
- Tyler Boyd
- Jonah Williams
- Chidobe Awuzie
- Max Scharping
- Irv Smith
- Tanner Hudson
- Drew Sample
- Mitchell Wilcox
- Trenton Irwin
- Trayveon Williams
- Josh Tupou
- ADG
- Markus Bailey
- Joe Bachie
- Cal Adomitis
- Cody Ford
- Jake Browning/AJ McCarron

That's 19 spots the Bengals have to re-sign/replace, and each player costs ~$1 mill at minimum.


So let's be optimistic and say 5-10 of those guys re-sign so cut your cap down by $10 mill at minimum.
Let's also cut out another $5-10 mill for draft picks to fill more spots.

That cap has now dwindled down to $40-50 mill and you still gotta worry about some pretty big spots to fill.
It could be more like $30 mill depending on how expensive some of those backup-types cost higher than $1 mill.

We have $55 million or so in functional cap space. Some of the existing spots are taken up by guys who will be cut (Maxwell, Harper, Bell, etc) with either 0 or finctionally 0 dead cap. The 9 future's guys can all be cut w/out any dead cap & din't coint vs the cap yet. 

For the moment, let's just count signed guys who started last year: Burrow, Mixon, Chase, O. Brown, Volson, Karras, Cappa; Hendrickson, BJ Hill, Hubbard, Wilson, Pratt, CTB, Hilton, Battle, D. Hill; McPherson, Robbins. 

That is 18. If Robbins gets replaced, it will be a FA/late pick with equivalent salary, so forget that for now. 18. They make $152,855,681.

Reserves that are signed or AND likely safe: C. Brown, Iosivas, C. Jones; C. Sample, Murphy, Ossai, Carter, Turner, J. Davis, Ivey (IR), Anderson (IR). That is 11. 29 total. Tgey make $14,798,184. Plus the starters makes $167,653,865. 

The cap is estimated to be $242,500,000. Plus our rollover of $10,766,741 is $253,266,741. Minus our dead cap of $1,775,689 for $251,491,052. That $251+ minus the$167+ leaves us $83,837,187 with 29 guys signed. 

The following guys are currently signed and eating cap space: Scott ($2.3 mil savings if cut), Carman ($1.6 savings if cut), Evans, D. Smith, T. Hill; Tufele, Harper, Maxwell, Cochran. That is 9 more for 38. Not sure on Cochran's  but I can only be off by a couple $100k. $13,800,884 for those 9 (many of whom may get replaced). Now we are at $70,036,303 in space with 38 guys signed.

I'd like to think the following guys can be had for league min: Browning (ERFA), Adomitis (ERFA), T. Williams, Irwin (RFA), D. Sample, Ford, Scharping; Tupou, Bailey, Bachie. That's 10 for 48. I don't see anyone clamoring to sign them. At min, they make $10,760,000. That is $59,276,303 with 48 signed. 

The first rounder is a hit of $2,695,995. Space is now at $56,585,308 with 49 guys signed.  

There is your $55+ mil in space. Plug in $20 mil for Tee & $15 mil for Reader and you have $21,585,308 at top 51. If the cap hits are say, $17.5 and $12.5 instead, you got $26,585,308. 

ADG & Hudson might pull a bit more but would be close to min in my view for 53. We still have 8 more picks that would be displacing a guy already capped. That is a cap wash, probably a gain if Scott or Carman get bumped. Figure ADG/Hudson costca min + 1 mil and we are looking at $19.6 to $24.6 in cap space, after signing Tee & Reader to big deals. Every other signing will be displacement. I'd hope we can get 2 (if not 3) starter caliber guys, or one stud plus a borderline starter/high quality backup. 

[WeezyBengal]

Hubbard and Bill are making too much money for what they are.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-12-2024, 10:40 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Hubbard and Bill are making too much money for what they are.

I think you move on from Hill after next year when his deal is up but you can't this offseason. He has a $10.8m cap hit but you only save $7.5m in cap space by cutting Hill. Draft picks DTs generally need a year and we already need a NT so hopefully not two rookie starting DTs at once so you'd need to go through FA. You'd then need to spend money to replace his production. Even 34-year-old Fletcher Cox is projected to get 1yr/$9m and I am not sure you're really upgrading there but still spending $1.5m more than you would if you just kept Hill.  I just am not sure there's a ton of savings to be had without a loss in production. 

Sam Hubbard probably falls in the same category this offseason with only a $6m savings unless you're looking at spending a lot of money on a new DE anyway, which I feel like would be hard to do when you just spent a 1st round pick on a DE.

[jj22]

(01-12-2024, 09:01 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: There is your $55+ mil in space. Plug in $20 mil for Tee & $15 mil for Reader and you have $21,585,308. 

Or you can sign a starting corner, rt, fs, and te. 

Or just Justin Jefferson and move on from both of them. 

[schroomytunes]

- DJ reader
- Tee Higgins- franchised tagged
- Tyler Boyd
- Jonah Williams
- Chidobe Awuzie
- Max Scharping- resigned
- Irv Smith
- Tanner Hudson-resigned
- Drew Sample- resigned
- Mitchell Wilcox
- Trenton Irwin-resigned
- Trayveon Williams- resigned
- Josh Tupou
- ADG-resigned
- Markus Bailey-resigned
- Joe Bachie
- Cal Adomitis-resigned
- Cody Ford
- Jake Browning/AJ McCarron-JB resigned

-I think we will be fine next year, we will have 2 additional draft picks and some big salaries coming off the books, I do think we make some value FA signings this offseason and Franchise Higgins. Of the above I think we keep the 10 above. DJ is going on 30 and has been injured. the others can be replaced with draft picks or outside FA's.

- Cap casulty- Nick Scott (adds back 2.3 million.)

Outside FA's:

1) Dalton Schultz-TE (Hou)- i think we will use TE more going forward.
2) Justin Jones-DT (CHI) - we will bring a repacement in at DT
3) Tashon Gipson FS (SF) -starting FS, with Dax being moved to more CB roles
4) George Fant- RT (HOU)- backup Tackle to groom an eventual draft pick in the early rds

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2024, 09:01 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have $55 million or so in functional cap space. Some of the existing spots are taken up by guys who will be cut (Maxwell, Harper, Bell, etc) with either 0 or finctionally 0 dead cap. The 9 future's guys can all be cut w/out any dead cap & din't coint vs the cap yet. 

For the moment, let's just count signed guys who started last year: Burrow, Mixon, Chase, O. Brown, Volson, Karras, Cappa; Hendrickson, BJ Hill, Hubbard, Wilson, Pratt, CTB, Hilton, Battle, D. Hill; McPherson, Robbins. 

That is 18. If Robbins gets replaced, it will be a FA/late pick with equivalent salary, so forget that for now. 18. They make $152,855,681.

Reserves that are signed or AND likely safe: C. Brown, Iosivas, C. Jones; C. Sample, Murphy, Ossai, Carter, Turner, J. Davis, Ivey (IR), Anderson (IR). That is 11. 29 total. Tgey make $14,798,184. Plus the starters makes $167,653,865. 

The cap is estimated to be $242,500,000. Plus our rollover of $10,766,741 is $253,266,741. Minus our dead cap of $1,775,689 for $251,491,052. That $251+ minus the$167+ leaves us $83,837,187 with 29 guys signed. 

The following guys are currently signed and eating cap space: Scott ($2.3 mil savings if cut), Carman ($1.6 savings if cut), Evans, D. Smith, T. Hill; Tufele, Harper, Maxwell, Cochran. That is 9 more for 38. Not sure on Cochran's  but I can only be off by a couple $100k. $13,800,884 for those 9 (many of whom may get replaced). Now we are at $70,036,303 in space with 38 guys signed.

I'd like to think the following guys can be had for league min: Browning (ERFA), Adomitis (ERFA), T. Williams, Irwin (RFA), D. Sample, Ford, Scharping; Tupou, Bailey, Bachie. That's 10 for 48. I don't see anyone clamoring to sign them. At min, they make $10,760,000. That is $59,276,303 with 48 signed. 

The first rounder is a hit of $2,695,995. Space is now at $56,585,308 with 49 guys signed.  

There is your $55+ mil in space. Plug in $20 mil for Tee & $15 mil for Reader and you have $21,585,308 at top 51. If the cap hits are say, $17.5 and $12.5 instead, you got $26,585,308. 

ADG & Hudson might pull a bit more but would be close to min in my view for 53. We still have 8 more picks that would be displacing a guy already capped. That is a cap wash, probably a gain if Scott or Carman get bumped. Figure ADG/Hudson costca min + 1 mil and we are looking at $19.6 to $24.6 in cap space, after signing Tee & Reader to big deals. Every other signing will be displacement. I'd hope we can get 2 (if not 3) starter caliber guys, or one stud plus a borderline starter/high quality backup. 

You're thinking Reader and Higgins sign big deals on top of adding (2-3 solid starters OR 1 stud and good backup)?
Sounds like lofty expectations to me.

I'm expecting 3 solid-or-better starters in FA total, including re-signings.
Any additional will come via the draft, I think.
But to clarify, I'm not saying they'll leave starting spots open, just that they won't be filled by solid-or-better starters.
Thinking like a Nick Scott type who could lose starting spot to a rookie sometime in 2024.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-12-2024, 11:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Or you can sign a starting corner, rt, fs, and te. 

Or just Justin Jefferson and move on from both of them. 

Hill and Turner will start in the secondary. RT is gonna be a draft pick most likely (Brown & Smith are the only starter worthy RTs un FA). Schultz is really the only FA TE I'd say is worth big money and he seems like a Texas guy. 

I mean, we can try. But I'd start with the guys we know are impact players & want to be here: Higgins & Reader, and then go from there. 

Outside of landing a stud DT (who likely never hit FA) I think the biggest FA impact guy would be Derrick Henry. He won't cost a lot. What he does cost can be mostly offset by what Mixon already makes. But I think Joe is loved by the FO/coaches and stays. 

[casear2727]

(01-12-2024, 11:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Or you can sign a starting corner, rt, fs, and te. 

Or just Justin Jefferson and move on from both of them. 

How can we simply sign Justin Jefferson? Are you expecting the Vikings to cut him this offseason?

[*michaelsean*]

Am I correct in assuming that a lot of the money that is there in 2024 will be eaten up by Joe in 2025? So it seems it would be kind of hard to sign someone to a three year deal based on 2024 cap availability. Unless you pay a bunch in the first year.

[*michaelsean*]

I’m not sure about Hubbard. I think it’s obvious he was playing hurt seeing as he is going to have surgery.

[Bengalholic]

(01-13-2024, 04:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Am I correct in assuming that a lot of the money that is there in 2024 will be eaten up by Joe in 2025? So it seems it would be kind of hard to sign someone to a three year deal based on 2024 cap availability. Unless you pay a bunch in the first year.

Joe's cap number will increase by 17m in 2025, but the salary cap is also projected to increase by about the same number that year..

[*michaelsean*]

(01-13-2024, 05:07 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Joe's cap number will increase by 17m in 2025, but the salary cap is also projected to increase by about the same number that year.

Ok thanks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-12-2024, 08:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: BJ Hill is absolutely worth his contract.  Don't believe me?  Imagine if we cut him and tried to replace him via free agency.  Who has proven his stats or greater that would sign for less money?

Completely agree, BJ is the one dude on the DL that played well this year besides Trey. You keep this guy around. You surely don't cut him.