LBs in 2023

[casear2727]

(01-19-2024, 11:57 AM)kalibengal Wrote: PFF has Pratt and Wilson rated quite low and honestly I agree on this seasons performances. I hope they bring in some competition through FA
or draft to upgrade this unit. I know PFF isnt the only metric here but it seems to be the baromoter everyone looks at. Im still pissed they didnt bring in Ivan Pace
that kid is a beast.....cant believe he went undrafted!

Last year Wilson and Pratt were 2 of the highest rated LBs according to PFF.  

Failures in front of them at the dline and behind them in the secondary surely made life difficult.  They both had some poor plays on their own as well.

No one drafted Ivan Pace because he could not guard a receiver in a telephone booth in college.  We had him workout in our facility and he apparently didnt impress.  The Vikings obviously worked with him on coverage and of course blitzed him a lot, as they should.  

After his punk-ass BS he gave Mixon after we beat the Vikings, Im ok with no one drafting him, especially us.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 04:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pratt's biggest issue is going for strips every time and getting drug an extra 3-4 yards before someone else gets in on the stop.

He's kinda become known for getting turnovers, so maybe that became his focus in 2023 rather than just getting the tackles.
2021-2023:
FF - 5
INT - 6

That's pretty good for an off-ball LB, but you can really hurt yourself if you're going for big plays so often.

[*pally*]

Logan Wilson flat out said he found himself looking behind him to see if his DBs were in the right place instead of looking towards the play.

I think 2023 was an anomaly for both players as the communication among everyone took a hit with the young ones in the backfield learning to play at the pro level.

[J24]

(01-19-2024, 04:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What makes you think that??

He would be a nice backup option at LB who can play on passing downs. How is that a controversial take?

[NATI BENGALS]

I’m hoping Pratt and Wilson have become more comfortable with having enormous bank accounts. And they get back to playing good football. I was thinking becoming financially set for life made them turn it down a notch on the field.

[NATI BENGALS]

I’d love to have ADG and Bailey back as quality LB depth.

If not we could be spending 2-3 of our 9 draft picks to reload the LB depth chart.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2024, 06:00 PM)J24 Wrote: He would be a nice backup option at LB who can play on passing downs. How is that a controversial take?

The Bengals currently have two mid-tier contracts invested in LB, if anything they likely look to get cheaper and younger at the depth LB positions, as they have real needs at positions of higher importance.  Positions like RT, NT, at least 2 WR spots, TE, and depth at interior DL and possibly secondary and interior OL. While the player you mentioned might be a good addition to the team, bringing in another LB that would require an actual contract is just not feasible.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 05:24 PM)pally Wrote: Logan Wilson flat out said he found himself looking behind him to see if his DBs were in the right place instead of looking towards the play.

I think 2023 was an anomaly for both players as the communication among everyone took a hit with the young ones in the backfield learning to play at the pro level.

Yep.
You essentially had 3-4 new guys back there.
Hill replacing Bates.
Battle replacing Bell.
CTB replacing Apple.
And then you also had Turner starting for a recovering Awuzie part of the season.

There will be growing pains with that much change in one offseason.

I know it was a down year, but Bengals really weren't gonna get to the promised land without Burrow anyway, so it might have been the perfect year to have those growing pains compared to this coming year.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 06:00 PM)J24 Wrote: He would be a nice backup option at LB who can play on passing downs. How is that a controversial take?

Wilson and Pratt are the passing down LBs.


One of the things Pratt wanted when signing a new contract was being considered a 3-down LB.
That's evidenced with him playing 89% of the defensive snaps this past year.
He had not played more than 76% in a year prior.

Logan Wilson played 98% of the defensive snaps in 2023, 97% in the year prior.

For all intents and purposes, any other LB added is going to just spell those two or be on the field sparingly for the rare occasion the Bengals want to have 3 LBs on the field.
And when I say rare, I really mean rare.
Last season, Bailey, ADG, and Bachie combined only played 138 defensive snaps. None of them played more than 12% of total snaps.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-19-2024, 05:24 PM)pally Wrote: Logan Wilson flat out said he found himself looking behind him to see if his DBs were in the right place instead of looking towards the play.

I think 2023 was an anomaly for both players as the communication among everyone took a hit with the young ones in the backfield learning to play at the pro level.

Well, that would go a long way in explaining why he was two or three steps behind a lot of plays this last season.

I hope that they re-sign ADG and Bailey. Batchie and Cliff Johnston have also earned their spots on the LB corp. All in all, I think that it's a very solid group, but when both guys that take over 95% of the snaps have off years the whole squad looks down or mediocre.

Personally, I'm less of a "Pratt is a 3 down LB" believer and more fond of a "Let's keep him fresher next season" kind of approach. He's got his contract now . . . they should quit trying to make him something he's not. Sell it to him like this, "Think of it as load management, Germaine . . . We're planning on 21 game seasons every year, not 17."

[Clark W Griswold]

(01-19-2024, 02:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think Wilson was dealing with an ankle injury for the majority of the season. 

I hope this was the case because I have been fan of how he plays since he was drafted. He is too young to have lost a step so it’s likely that the injury combined with having to baby sit the DBs caused him to play crappy this season. Hoping to see the old Logan next season…

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2024, 08:16 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Well, that would go a long way in explaining why he was two or three steps behind a lot of plays this last season.

I hope that they re-sign ADG and Bailey. Batchie and Cliff Johnston have also earned their spots on the LB corp. All in all, I think that it's a very solid group, but when both guys that take over 95% of the snaps have off years the whole squad looks down or mediocre.

Personally, I'm less of a "Pratt is a 3 down LB" believer and more fond of a "Let's keep him fresher next season" kind of approach. He's got his contract now . . . they should quit trying to make him something he's not. Sell it to him like this, "Think of it as load management, Germaine . . . We're planning on 21 game seasons every year, not 17."

I'm not sold that either of them had an "off year" as much as they were greatly affected by the disarray with what was happening behind them.  Wilson and Pratt have worked hard to become one of the best pass defending LB duos in the league, for them to not have confidence that the Safeties behind them have their backs speaks volumes of the calamity that was actually going on this season on the defensive side of the ball.  We all expected some growing pains with losing a top Safety duo in the league, I guess nobody other than Lou Anarumo really understood the full implications of that event happening.

[J24]

(01-19-2024, 08:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Wilson and Pratt are the passing down LBs.


One of the things Pratt wanted when signing a new contract was being considered a 3-down LB.
That's evidenced with him playing 89% of the defensive snaps this past year.
He had not played more than 76% in a year prior.

Logan Wilson played 98% of the defensive snaps in 2023, 97% in the year prior.

For all intents and purposes, any other LB added is going to just spell those two or be on the field sparingly for the rare occasion the Bengals want to have 3 LBs on the field.
And when I say rare, I really mean rare.
Last season, Bailey, ADG, and Bachie combined only played 138 defensive snaps. None of them played more than 12% of total snaps.

We were dead last in passing yards per attempt and gave up the most yards to TE last season. + Pratt was a 2 down player in 2022 and had a much better season than he did in 2023(according to PFF). So maybe he shouldn't be a 3 down player because evidence shows he's not.

Having a LB who can play on 3rd downs and passing situations isn't a terrible idea. Assuming that they can get Isiah Simmons on the cheap!

[The D.O.Z.]

(01-19-2024, 10:39 PM)J24 Wrote: We were dead last in passing yards per attempt and gave up the most yards to TE last season. + Pratt was a 2 down player in 2022 and had a much better season than he did in 2023(according to PFF). So maybe he shouldn't be a 3 down player because evidence shows he's not.

Having a LB who can play on 3rd downs and passing situations isn't a terrible idea. Assuming that they can get Isiah Simmons on the cheap!

With this past season being the exception, Logan Wilson is that guy. He does just fine when not hampered by ankle injuries. Hell, in 2022 he played through a shoulder injury and held up just fine all through the playoffs.

As with Pratt, his 2022 was good too. Plenty of splash plays and some key turnovers. He doesn't have the injury excuse. He needs to switch his mentality to tackle-first and start wrapping guys up.

I'm willing to believe there is some credibility to our LBs having to "babysit" the secondary this year and it effected their play. Toss in the front 4-5's lack of QB pressure or RB TFLs outside of Hendrickson too. If the defensive front can't keep offensive linemen from reaching the second level with any kind of consistency, the LBs become much less effective.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 10:39 PM)J24 Wrote: We were dead last in passing yards per attempt and gave up the most yards to TE last season. + Pratt was a 2 down player in 2022 and had a much better season than he did in 2023(according to PFF). So maybe he shouldn't be a 3 down player because evidence shows he's not.

Having a LB who can play on 3rd downs and passing situations isn't a terrible idea. Assuming that they can get Isiah Simmons on the cheap!

I'm not saying Pratt was the greatest, but wanting something and it being realistic to happen are two different things.
I almost guarantee Pratt re-signed with the Bengals because of the opportunity they were going to give him.
He's going to get that opportunity whether some like it or not.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-19-2024, 08:33 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I hope this was the case because I have been fan of how he plays since he was drafted.  He is too young to have lost a step so it’s likely that the injury combined with having to baby sit the DBs caused him to play crappy this season. Hoping to see the old Logan next season…

Logan, CTB, and Hilton all mentioned there were communication issues in the secondary which caused a lot of problems this season.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-19-2024, 11:57 AM)kalibengal Wrote: PFF has Pratt and Wilson rated quite low and honestly I agree on this seasons performances. I hope they bring in some competition through FA
or draft to upgrade this unit. I know PFF isnt the only metric here but it seems to be the baromoter everyone looks at. Im still pissed they didnt bring in Ivan Pace
that kid is a beast.....cant believe he went undrafted!

PFF is one general measure of a player, normally when you have a down year on defense most players stats suffer but is not always reflective of their ind. performance, for example Wilson was 26th in solo tackles, top 10 in FF/INTS so i felt had a decent year and i look at overall performance in career both Pratt and Wilson have done well and they have newer contracts so i don't think Bengals are going to look at that as high need area in FA or Draft.

As for Pace nice rookie year no doubt but a "beast" since both him and Pratt had similar stats this year does that mean Pratt is a "beast" ?

[J24]

(01-20-2024, 02:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not saying Pratt was the greatest, but wanting something and it being realistic to happen are two different things.
I almost guarantee Pratt re-signed with the Bengals because of the opportunity they were going to give him.
He's going to get that opportunity whether some like it or not.

How is signing a guy to a vet Minimum unrealistic? Isiah Simmons shouldn't be too expensive!

[KillerGoose]

(01-20-2024, 11:36 AM)J24 Wrote: How is signing a guy to a vet Minimum unrealistic? Isiah Simmons shouldn't be too expensive!

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Simmons would be okay with a one year prove it deal or any type of vet min. signing. Spotrac has him predicted to sign a 4 year $66M contract, or $16.5M per year. Here is his market value page.

[kalibengal]

(01-20-2024, 11:58 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Simmons would be okay with a one year prove it deal or any type of vet min. signing. Spotrac has him predicted to sign a 4 year $66M contract, or $16.5M per year. Here is his market value page.

would be a nice add and he would provide some possible shut down coverage for the TEs we cant seem to stop weekly...the dude is what 6'-5"?
but at 16M /yr, forget it. Bengals dont do these deals
I will say this: the D seems to lack some of those vocal alpha dogs. Only CTB and Hilton come to mind ...maybe Trey ? When Ravens broke bank for Smith I questioned it...not now