Our drafting has sucked lately

[NotBigzo]

(01-30-2024, 03:21 PM)jason Wrote: Throw the receipts away. Plenty of people will just exhume a lot of the hyperbole and and troll like posts you've become famous for in retaliation. You didn't like Carmen in 21... Cool. You also buried Myles Murphy after like 12 snaps this year.

Can’t. They’re digital.


People are gonna jump for joy at data points and ignore red flags with Murphy. He played scrubs the last game and didn’t do shit. Come talk to me after next season on Murphy.

[*jason*]

(01-30-2024, 04:31 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Can’t. They’re digital.


People are gonna jump for joy at data points and ignore red flags with Murphy. He played scrubs the last game and didn’t do shit. Come talk to me after next season on Murphy.

I'm not even sure on Murphy.... Nobody realistically can be. Personally I hope he succeeds though because I'm a fan of this team. That matters more than being right about a guy. I thought Zac Taylor was trash with way more of a sample size than we have of Murphy. Happy to be proven wrong.

[JoeyB2023]

(01-30-2024, 01:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: Ross was a bad pick, but was far from a one trick pony.  He had elite short area quickness and change of direction and was a nightmare in the red zone in college.  He also displayed that in the Pro's.  His problems were injuries(which he had a history of in college), drops(which he didn't have a history of in college), and a seemingly fragile psyche that crumbled when he had to start facing guys he couldn't just clown with his physical gifts.

I loved Creed Humphrey coming out of college, but the problem is, we were locked in on a RT of the future.  That's an issue of going into the draft looking for specific needs instead of getting the best player.  Smith was very scheme limited coming out, which is a big reason he fell so far.  Honestly, he wouldn't be near as good if he played for a team that didn't get away with holding all day because they're protecting the league poster boy.  We saw how KC was marching up and down the field on the Ravens in the AFCCG until the refs started nailing Smith with holding calls.  After that, the Ravens dominated up front.

Also, KC only has 2 drafted starters on their OL, so it isn't like they are wizards at drafting them.

Ross was a one trick pony. U site what he did in college a lot of us knew it wouldnt translate. His speed was all he had and it was the number 1 reason we took him at 9. It was dumb pick from the get and the bengals and Tobin couldnt keep their minds when they saw his 40 time. (We have to hVe him). Hahaha in what the afc north. Everybody was reaaaaaching for the next tyreke hill when nothing about this guy was tyreke. Ross was a walking cast y u take that at 9 he’s wayyyyy too small why u take that at 9. We didn’t even need him why u take him at 9. He’s a wide receiver with the dropsies why do u take that at 9. It was a dumb pick all the way around it was his speed and speed alone we took him at 9 and I still can’t get that taste out of my mouth. Creed Humphreys biggest resume builder was the fact he could play all five positions instead we go with the injured back carman. Stupid. Smith fell cuz of a heart condition. Don’t care now didn’t care then and neither did the chiefs and they in turn have a top guard and a top center we have neither. Cool. Bengals can’t draft to save their lives when they needs to. They hit late. Great cool. They need to hit on the blue chip rounds and they don’t. Ross hurt carman hurt fisher hurt ogbuehi hurt sample killed us I mean dude tell me when to stop lol

[NotBigzo]

(01-30-2024, 04:49 PM)jason Wrote: I'm not even sure on Murphy.... Nobody realistically can be. Personally I hope he succeeds though because I'm a fan of this team. That matters more than being right about a guy. I thought Zac Taylor was trash with way more of a sample size than we have of Murphy. Happy to be proven wrong.

Nobody said otherwise. It's just that if i'm going to be let down by the team when they fail to exceed expectations, I need to get enjoyment from something. 

No one can be sure, but people can consider some concerning signs that they see, make a conclusion, and hope they're wrong. 

After an offseason of swearing off of giving players third contracts, the Bengals surprised everyone when they extended Hendrickson. 

Why would they do that if they were confident in their first round pick?

People can point to the monster season Trey had this year as a justification, but that would just be them playing Captain Hindsight. After Hendrickson had a less productive 2nd season when compared to his first, there was no indication that he'd have the season that he had.

[Whatever]

(01-30-2024, 05:39 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: Ross was a one trick pony.  U site what he did in college a lot of us knew it wouldnt translate.  His speed was all he had and it was the number 1 reason we took him at 9.  It was dumb pick from the get and the bengals and Tobin couldnt keep their minds when they saw his 40 time.  (We have to hVe him). Hahaha in what the afc north.  Everybody was reaaaaaching for the next tyreke hill when nothing about this guy was tyreke.  Ross was a walking cast y u take that at 9 he’s wayyyyy too small why u take that at 9.  We didn’t even need him why u take him at 9.  He’s a wide receiver with the dropsies why do u take that at 9.  It was a dumb pick all the way around it was his speed and speed alone we took him at 9 and I still can’t get that taste out of my mouth.  Creed Humphreys biggest resume builder was the fact he could play all five positions instead we go with the injured back carman.  Stupid.  Smith fell cuz of a heart condition.  Don’t care now didn’t care then and neither did the chiefs and they in turn have a top guard and a top center we have neither.  Cool. Bengals can’t draft to save their lives when they needs to.  They hit late.  Great cool.  They need to hit on the blue chip rounds and they don’t.  Ross hurt carman hurt fisher hurt ogbuehi hurt sample killed us I mean dude tell me when to stop lol

If you think Ross was a one trick pony, you never bothered to watch his tape.  He broke a number of top draft prospects ankles with his route stems, his whip route was nasty due to his quickness, and he actually showed the ability to break tackles due to often having to wait on the ball forever from a non NFL caliber QB.  However, most of deep shots were actually on post routes where he could set the defender up at the top of his stem, not the repeated "go" routes he was running here between the 20's.  His big question marks were injuries and whether he could hold up against constant press man impeding his release.  

It ultimately didn't matter, though, because as legend goes, Mikey broke a dead lock between Tobin and Marvin on the pick.  Tobin wanted Ross, while Marvin wanted Reuben Foster, who had already flunked his drug test at the Combine and only lasted 2 years in the league before being run out with more failed drug tests and domestic violence issues.  Marvin apparently had a hard on for troubled LB's(Burfict, Odell), so we would have wound up with a bust if he had his druthers, anyways.

Smith isn't a top G, dude.  He's been Top 10 in penalties every year and that's with the Mahomes effect.  He wasn't a scheme fit in wide zone anyways.  Look at what Orlando Brown is for us, and you'd have a worse version of that if he was drafted here.  

[KillerGoose]

(01-30-2024, 06:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: If you think Ross was a one trick pony, you never bothered to watch his tape.  He broke a number of top draft prospects ankles with his route stems, his whip route was nasty due to his quickness, and he actually showed the ability to break tackles due to often having to wait on the ball forever from a non NFL caliber QB.  However, most of deep shots were actually on post routes where he could set the defender up at the top of his stem, not the repeated "go" routes he was running here between the 20's.  His big question marks were injuries and whether he could hold up against constant press man impeding his release.  

It ultimately didn't matter, though, because as legend goes, Mikey broke a dead lock between Tobin and Marvin on the pick.  Tobin wanted Ross, while Marvin wanted Reuben Foster, who had already flunked his drug test at the Combine and only lasted 2 years in the league before being run out with more failed drug tests and domestic violence issues.  Marvin apparently had a hard on for troubled LB's(Burfict, Odell), so we would have wound up with a bust if he had his druthers, anyways.

Smith isn't a top G, dude.  He's been Top 10 in penalties every year and that's with the Mahomes effect.  He wasn't a scheme fit in wide zone anyways.  Look at what Orlando Brown is for us, and you'd have a worse version of that if he was drafted here.  

It's surprisingly irritating when people insist that Ross was a one trick pony due to his speed. He was a great prospect on paper for all of the reasons you mentioned. Ultimately he didn't work out, but it is such a lazy and misinformed opinion to say that he had nothing but speed. You don't get drafted in the top 10 purely on speed unless you're Darrius Heyward-Bey.

[Whatever]

(01-30-2024, 11:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's surprisingly irritating when people insist that Ross was a one trick pony due to his speed. He was a great prospect on paper for all of the reasons you mentioned. Ultimately he didn't work out, but it is such a lazy and misinformed opinion to say that he had nothing but speed. You don't get drafted in the top 10 purely on speed unless you're Darrius Heyward-Bey.

I will never claim to be some football expert or draft guru, but most folks don't really take any time to really familiarize themselves with the prospects.  They just think you draft you guy highest on Kiper's Best Available at the position that they think we need most.

Beyond that, they will never hesitate to tell you all about the picks they thought were bad at the time that turned out bad, but never mention the ones they thought would be good that turned out bad.  Or the prospects they lusted after that we didn't take that busted.  

[Bengal Dude]

Duke and the other scouts need to reevaluate their OL scouting. This team hasn't drafted a quality OL since Kevin Zeitler in 2012. I'm not a fan of Pollack, but I will cut him a small slice of slack because it has been coming out that he wasn't in favor of drafting Carmen or Billy Price. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-30-2024, 05:39 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: Ross was a one trick pony.  U site what he did in college a lot of us knew it wouldnt translate.  His speed was all he had and it was the number 1 reason we took him at 9.  It was dumb pick from the get and the bengals and Tobin couldnt keep their minds when they saw his 40 time.  (We have to hVe him). Hahaha in what the afc north.  Everybody was reaaaaaching for the next tyreke hill when nothing about this guy was tyreke.  Ross was a walking cast y u take that at 9 he’s wayyyyy too small why u take that at 9.  We didn’t even need him why u take him at 9.  He’s a wide receiver with the dropsies why do u take that at 9.  It was a dumb pick all the way around it was his speed and speed alone we took him at 9 and I still can’t get that taste out of my mouth.  Creed Humphreys biggest resume builder was the fact he could play all five positions instead we go with the injured back carman.  Stupid.  Smith fell cuz of a heart condition.  Don’t care now didn’t care then and neither did the chiefs and they in turn have a top guard and a top center we have neither.  Cool. Bengals can’t draft to save their lives when they needs to.  They hit late.  Great cool.  They need to hit on the blue chip rounds and they don’t.  Ross hurt carman hurt fisher hurt ogbuehi hurt sample killed us I mean dude tell me when to stop lol

Ok ....Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, JaMarr Chase, Cam Taylor Britt, jury out on Dax Hill and DJ Turner....just under Taylor. Several in the third have been money....Bates, Hubbard, Pratt, Logan Wilson, and maybe Jordan Battle. Even Jonah has been serviceable. 

But yes, John Ross pick sucked and I hated it even then. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-31-2024, 01:24 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Duke and the other scouts need to reevaluate their OL scouting. This team hasn't drafted a quality OL since Kevin Zeitler in 2012. I'm not a fan of Pollack, but I will cut him a small slice of slack because it has been coming out that he wasn't in favor of drafting Carmen or Billy Price. 

Carman was all Son of Paul and Ketchup bottle.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(01-31-2024, 03:20 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Carman was all Son of Paul and Ketchup bottle.

Willie Anderson went to his hill for Carman too.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-31-2024, 09:30 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Willie Anderson went to his hill for Carman too.

Damn Willie! I either didn't know that, or had forgotten.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-30-2024, 01:19 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: SO many people hated the carman pick or were confused by it. The people who liked it were mainly people who had to convince themselves it was good, and kept referencing "5 star high school recruit"

Actually, many were jubilant about the Carmen pick because he played his HS ball for one the Cincinnati suburbs.  That, and they were enamored with his trendy broccoli head hair style.

(01-30-2024, 01:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I dont like Volson, and Volson is better than Carman

Really now, I could have sworn that just last year you said that you did like him.. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-31-2024, 03:19 AM)Wyche Wrote: Ok ....Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, JaMarr Chase, Cam Taylor Britt, jury out on Dax Hill and DJ Turner....just under Taylor. Several in the third have been money....Bates, Hubbard, Pratt, Logan Wilson, and maybe Jordan Battle. Even Jonah has been serviceable. 

But yes, John Ross pick sucked and I hated it even then. 

Yeah, John Ross was very much an Al Davis like selection.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-31-2024, 01:24 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Duke and the other scouts need to reevaluate their OL scouting. This team hasn't drafted a quality OL since Kevin Zeitler in 2012. I'm not a fan of Pollack, but I will cut him a small slice of slack because it has been coming out that he wasn't in favor of drafting Carmen or Billy Price. 

Maybe we can hire Bill Belichick as special advisor to the GM to help our front office make better OL selection.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-29-2024, 09:36 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The draft has not produced other than Logan Wilson much from the #3/4 spot. Battle YTBD but looks promising. Baltimore has hit with Linderbaum, Flowers, and Hamilton. Those are first rounders but Hill, Murphy etc haven’t yet. I would say our drafts have been average at best.

They've also drafted all those guys before the Bengals were up.
Many of us were big on Linderbaum, but he never fell.
Same with Hamilton, but he was not considered even remotely having a chance to fall to 31 that draft.

People give crap to Dax Hill, but here's how his 2023 compared to the other safeties who were taken early other than Hamilton:
Dax Hill (31st overall) - 110 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 2 INTs
Lewis Cine (32nd overall) - 1 tackle
Jalen Pitre (37th overall) - 84 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 INTs
Jaquan Brisker (48th overall) - 105 tackles, 2 FF, 1 sack, 1 INT

Hill did about as well as any of the other safeties in the 2022 draft class this year other than Hamilton, who Bengals didn't have opportunity to get.

Let's not criticize the team for not getting players they never had a shot at drafting unless they traded up (which they don't typically do in the 1st round).

EDIT - The real killers are the Drew Samples and Jackson Carmans who haven't even carved out a starter role after being on the team 3+ years and 2nd round picks. Team needs to hit on most 2nd and 3rd rounders as these core players are going to take up more and more of the cap and losing other expensive guys because of it.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-31-2024, 03:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They've also drafted all those guys before the Bengals were up.
Many of us were big on Linderbaum, but he never fell.
Same with Hamilton, but he was not considered even remotely having a chance to fall to 31 that draft.

People give crap to Dax Hill, but here's how his 2023 compared to the other safeties who were taken early other than Hamilton:
Dax Hill (31st overall) - 110 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 2 INTs
Lewis Cine (32nd overall) - 1 tackle
Jalen Pitre (37th overall) - 84 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 INTs
Jaquan Brisker (48th overall) - 105 tackles, 2 FF, 1 sack, 1 INT

Hill did about as well as any of the other safeties in the 2022 draft class this year other than Hamilton, who Bengals didn't have opportunity to get.

Let's not criticize the team for not getting players they never had a shot at drafting unless they traded up (which they don't typically do in the 1st round).

And I’m not criticizing necessarily. And yes all those went earlier but they immediately started and proved value. Not meant to be a condemnation of the Bengals just pointing out we need an immediate starter with our pick. My point really is Baltimore, Detroit, and KC have helped themselves in the draft regardless of the reasons. I don’t think we’ve had as great success.

[depthchart]

(01-31-2024, 03:08 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And I’m not criticizing necessarily. And yes all those went earlier but they immediately started and proved value. Not meant to be a condemnation of the Bengals just pointing out we need an immediate starter with our pick. My point really is Baltimore, Detroit, and KC have helped themselves in the draft regardless of the reasons. I don’t think we’ve had as great success.

The Bengals may not always see 1st round picks this way. (immediate Starters)

Dax Hill was taken to develop behind starters for a year.

Myles Murphy was taken to develop behind starters for 1 maybe 2 years.

The 2024 first round pick may not be taken to start right away. Maybe taken to develop for a year.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-31-2024, 03:08 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And I’m not criticizing necessarily. And yes all those went earlier but they immediately started and proved value. Not meant to be a condemnation of the Bengals just pointing out we need an immediate starter with our pick. My point really is Baltimore, Detroit, and KC have helped themselves in the draft regardless of the reasons. I don’t think we’ve had as great success.

I think the Bengals are drafting in a spot that they *should* be able to get an immediate starter (or at least heavy reps), not riding the bench for (most of) the first year.
Before we go into FA, the Bengals could need starters/heavy snap opportunities at the following positions:
- WR2
- slot WR (although I think this is Charlie Jones)
- RT
- TE
- NT
- 3T rotation

For all those positions, Bengals can't just rely on draft picks because that'd be nearly the entire set of picks, so I expect at least 3 of these to get addressed in FA.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-31-2024, 03:14 PM)depthchart Wrote: The Bengals may not always see 1st round picks this way. (immediate Starters)

Dax Hill was taken to develop behind starters for a year.

Myles Murphy was taken to develop behind starters for 1 maybe 2 years.

The 2024 first round pick may not be taken to start right away. Maybe taken to develop for a year.

I get that but we need 2 starters. A RT & DT at some point we need a really good player on a rookie deal. Don’t think this year we have that luxury JMHO