Our drafting has sucked lately

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-31-2024, 08:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's a note about Sweat from today's Senior Bowl practice...
https://saintswire.usatoday.com/lists/senior-bowl-highlights-practice-notes-day-2-2024-nfl-draft-prospects/

Another win for Sweat. He bent Limmer's back the wrong way. pic.twitter.com/PHbalTwagm

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) January 31, 2024

Nasty.

[Nepa]

(01-31-2024, 10:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: ****

T'Vondre Sweat has been a dominant player. Outland Trophy winner and unanimous All-American and a position the Bengals need. I was reading about him during the College Playoffs and the knock was his conditioning, and sure enough he was on the sidelines during key plays against Washington, seemingly with no gas left in the tank. If that could be addressed, he could clog up the middle big-time. 

[Whatever]

(01-31-2024, 07:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I wouldn't consider Sheldon Rankins a NT.
DaQuan Jones won't happen because he's 32 years old.
Hankins about to turn 32, so also won't happen.
Stewart also 30 years old.
Bengals will want a guy under 30, at least based on their other FA signings the past few years.

Any NT you see worth picking up in FA that will be 29 or younger this year?

The Bengals have already talked about wanting Reader back, and he'll be 30 before the season starts.  There's not a lot to suggest they necessarily won't sign a guy 30+. Reiff was well over 30. 

Rankins plays shade NT/1 tech.

Wilkins is 28.

[Whatever]

(01-31-2024, 08:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's a note about Sweat from today's Senior Bowl practice...
https://saintswire.usatoday.com/lists/senior-bowl-highlights-practice-notes-day-2-2024-nfl-draft-prospects/

As I said, he has looked better today than he did earlier.  But still, he had weight/conditioning issues coming in and refusing to weight in and walking around like he's put on a significant amount of weight only exacerbate those.

[*Synric*]

(01-31-2024, 08:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's a note about Sweat from today's Senior Bowl practice...
https://saintswire.usatoday.com/lists/senior-bowl-highlights-practice-notes-day-2-2024-nfl-draft-prospects/

(01-31-2024, 10:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Another win for Sweat. He bent Limmer's back the wrong way. pic.twitter.com/PHbalTwagm

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) January 31, 2024

Nasty.

Here are all the 1 on 1s day 2 from T'Vondre Sweat who was "better" day 2. Sweat goes 2 (maybe 2 1/2) for 5 with 1 win out of 3 against Limmer, 1 win against Layden Robinson ( Robinson looks terrible). Maybe half a win against Brandon Coleman. He showed the power everyone expected yesterday but the get off looks like a 400lb man.

Here is every one-on-one pass-rush rep by #Texas DT T'Vondre Sweat on Day 2 of the Senior Bowl: pic.twitter.com/Ry51jYSoLD

— Marcus Mosher (@Marcus_Mosher) January 31, 2024

 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-31-2024, 10:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Another win for Sweat. He bent Limmer's back the wrong way. pic.twitter.com/PHbalTwagm

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) January 31, 2024

Nasty.

Got him in the second round in one of my mocks. I've only watched in the playoff game, but I liked what I saw.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2024, 03:39 AM)Synric Wrote: Here are all the 1 on 1s day 2 from T'Vondre Sweat who was "better" day 2. Sweat goes 2 (maybe 2 1/2) for 5 with 1 win out of 3 against Limmer, 1 win against Layden Robinson ( Robinson looks terrible). Maybe half a win against Brandon Coleman. He showed the power everyone expected yesterday but the get off looks like a 400lb man.

Here is every one-on-one pass-rush rep by #Texas DT T'Vondre Sweat on Day 2 of the Senior Bowl: pic.twitter.com/Ry51jYSoLD

— Marcus Mosher (@Marcus_Mosher) January 31, 2024

 

Thanks for this information.
As I don't watch the practices themselves, I go off what news clips I find on them. I did look at a couple and saw positive marks, but I did not try to scour for more after.

With that said, I don't think Sweat (or any player really) has to win every rep to be considered worth taking.
He's showing power and anchor, which is what he showed in college.
He's likely gotten too big, and may be more effective getting back down to 360, maybe even 340-350 range.
Let's see if/how he trims down by the time the Combine comes around (assuming he weighs in there).

EDIT:
Question for you Synric - In the reps Sweat did not win, did he get pushed off the LOS? Asking because if he's always at least staying put, that's still good given our DL has been getting blown back pretty regularly, allowing for RBs to pick up more yards than they would if the DL was at least sticking at the LOS.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-31-2024, 11:17 PM)Nepa Wrote: T'Vondre Sweat has been a dominant player. Outland Trophy winner and unanimous All-American and a position the Bengals need. I was reading about him during the College Playoffs and the knock was his conditioning, and sure enough he was on the sidelines during key plays against Washington, seemingly with no gas left in the tank. If that could be addressed, he could clog up the middle big-time. 

I dont even get how someone can knock conditioning. That's literally one of the easiest things to fix in a player. 

[Whatever]

(02-01-2024, 03:39 AM)Synric Wrote: Here are all the 1 on 1s day 2 from T'Vondre Sweat who was "better" day 2. Sweat goes 2 (maybe 2 1/2) for 5 with 1 win out of 3 against Limmer, 1 win against Layden Robinson ( Robinson looks terrible). Maybe half a win against Brandon Coleman. He showed the power everyone expected yesterday but the get off looks like a 400lb man.

Here is every one-on-one pass-rush rep by #Texas DT T'Vondre Sweat on Day 2 of the Senior Bowl: pic.twitter.com/Ry51jYSoLD

— Marcus Mosher (@Marcus_Mosher) January 31, 2024

 

For a further point of reference, on average Robinson is rated the 174th overall prospect, Limmer 148th, and Coleman 132nd overall.  So it's not like these reps are against the top IOL prospects like Powers -Johnson, Frazier, Van Pran, Beebe, etc.  The guys he faces in these reps all have solid Day 3 grades. 

[*Synric*]

(02-01-2024, 10:42 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Thanks for this information.
As I don't watch the practices themselves, I go off what news clips I find on them. I did look at a couple and saw positive marks, but I did not try to scour for more after.

With that said, I don't think Sweat (or any player really) has to win every rep to be considered worth taking.
He's showing power and anchor, which is what he showed in college.
He's likely gotten too big, and may be more effective getting back down to 360, maybe even 340-350 range.
Let's see if/how he trims down by the time the Combine comes around (assuming he weighs in there).

EDIT:
Question for you Synric - In the reps Sweat did not win, did he get pushed off the LOS? Asking because if he's always at least staying put, that's still good given our DL has been getting blown back pretty regularly, allowing for RBs to pick up more yards than they would if the DL was at least sticking at the LOS.

The 1 on 1 pass rush drills you won't often see a OL jump set to try to displace or stall the DL by moving forward. In team drills Sweat looked better the second day getting into gaps but he was a little overshadowed by Braden Fiske next who him who lived in the back field lol.


This is a good drill to see for NTs but one fans don't get to see much. Tyler Guyton and Christian Hayes vs McKinnley Jackson. That's a 6'1 330+lb McKinnley Jackson he barely looks half the size of Sweat lol.

This was probably my favorite rep of the day, live. Two OL I’ve been a fan of for a while absolutely obliterating the defender. pic.twitter.com/HAUDhOFJVu

— Parker Blake (@ParkerBlake60) January 30, 2024

[*Synric*]

(02-01-2024, 10:58 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I dont even get how someone can knock conditioning. That's literally one of the easiest things to fix in a player. 

Conditioning depends completely on the player I wouldn't call it an easy fix.  

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2024, 12:20 PM)Synric Wrote: The 1 on 1 pass rush drills you won't often see a OL jump set to try to displace or stall the DL by moving forward. In team drills Sweat looked better the second day getting into gaps but he was a little overshadowed by Braden Fiske next who him who lived in the back field lol.


This is a good drill to see for NTs but one fans don't get to see much. Tyler Guyton and Christian Hayes vs McKinnley Jackson. That's a 6'1 330+lb McKinnley Jackson he barely looks half the size of Sweat lol.

This was probably my favorite rep of the day, live. Two OL I’ve been a fan of for a while absolutely obliterating the defender. pic.twitter.com/HAUDhOFJVu

— Parker Blake (@ParkerBlake60) January 30, 2024

It's funny you mention Fiske.
I had both him and Sweat in my latest mock that I posted a week or so ago.
Given how both are performing though, I might have to flip flop them.

[*Synric*]

(02-01-2024, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's funny you mention Fiske.
I had both him and Sweat in my latest mock that I posted a week or so ago.
Given how both are performing though, I might have to flip flop them.

Fiske has been fun to watch. He is explosive and it's only matched by great hand speed. He isn't a power player and even though he has a tremendous motor I've noticed he will work himself right into the turf a few times. I hope he keeps his feet better on day 3.

[Whatever]

(02-01-2024, 12:21 PM)Synric Wrote: Conditioning depends completely on the player I wouldn't call it an easy fix.  

Yeah, weight/conditioning issues are usually a symptom of lack of desire/work ethic, which makes you wonder how hard they will work to learn their craft.  In college, there are extensive off season conditioning programs, while most of that in the pros is dependent on the player being self motivated enough to address it.  If you can't be in shape in a college program with coaches breathing down your neck, you probably won't with a ton of money in your pocket and left to your own devices. It's especially bad when you've put on 20-30 pounds before meeting with scouts from every NFL team.  

[JoeyB2023]

(01-31-2024, 07:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Equally irritating is if people pretend there wasn't a whole boatload of red flags about John Ross and those red flags weren't overlooked because speed.


John Ross was a <5'11" and <190lb WR who had had one knee with an ACL tear, the other knee with 3 meniscus tears. He had a torn labrum his draft offseason that got surgery that December, and then he injured his calf running his 40 yard dash. 

He had exactly 1 year of production and in that year he got absolutely shut down by Alabama (5 catches for 28 yards (5.6 AVG).

Then here comes the NFL and he gets an injured knee and ends up on the IR with a shoulder injury. Then he pulls his groin, pulls his groin again. Then he goes on IR with yet another shoulder injury.


Ross had missed the entire previous year and then after his one productive season he needed shoulder surgery. He hurt himself running his 40. 

He was a small fragile dude with small hands and had only played WR for an entire year once. He missed 2015 entirely, in 2014 he was a part-time WR and part-time CB, and in 2013 he was a return specialist.

All this and then some. Take Ross in the second round and I can live with its. He was always a top 10 bust even before the pick. It was all over him. And it only was his speed that got him picked at 9. And the bengals were the idiots on draft day. Ross is a tiny little guy in a very big tough game in a big and tough division his body with his speed was not built for nfl ball. U don’t go tiny in the top 10 bengals did and they paid heavily. Just stop already with the Ross pre draft hype he was more than a red flag he was a black flag. He should’ve never been our pick. Horrible horrible top 10 prospect.

[BengalBo]

That better change this year if you bring Tee back on the tag because I just don’t see this team paying 22 million a year on a WR and then going out and addressing offensive and defensive line needs, this front office just doesn’t work that way and I just don’t believe that will change. The good thing this draft is loaded with offensive line and defensive line talent. They just have to be better in this draft , biggest draft in the ZT era in my opinion.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-01-2024, 12:45 PM)Synric Wrote: Fiske has been fun to watch. He is explosive and it's only matched by great hand speed. He isn't a power player and even though he has a tremendous motor I've noticed he will work himself right into the turf a few times. I hope he keeps his feet better on day 3.

Being a Noles fan, this is a guy I've seen plenty of. He's definitely a hard worker, needs to clean up a couple of things, but I believe he would be a solid pick.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2024, 04:36 AM)BengalBo Wrote: That better change this year if you bring Tee back on the tag because I just don’t see this team paying 22 million a year on a WR and then going out and addressing offensive and defensive line needs, this front office just doesn’t work that way and I just don’t believe that will change. The good thing this draft is loaded with offensive line and defensive line talent. They just have to be better in this draft , biggest draft in the ZT era in my opinion.

The big thing for a boost in success will be can they get good immediate contributions from a few of the rookies they draft this Spring along with whoever they sign in FA.
The rookies (specifically McDuffie, Karlaftis, Pacheco) were pivotal in the success of the Chiefs back in 2022 with all the departures they had.
Bengals could use a draft like that.

[Frank Booth]

(02-02-2024, 12:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The big thing for a boost in success will be can they get good immediate contributions from a few of the rookies they draft this Spring along with whoever they sign in FA.
The rookies (specifically McDuffie, Karlaftis, Pacheco) were pivotal in the success of the Chiefs back in 2022 with all the departures they had.
Bengals could use a draft like that.

Well Murphy should be more impactful in 24, same with a full season of Battle, and Dax should feel more comfortable in this defense

and as I’ve said, hopefully Ossai has overcome his mental blockage and play like he did towards the end of 22

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2024, 02:24 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Well Murphy should be more impactful in 24, same with a full season of Battle, and Dax should feel more comfortable in this defense

and as I’ve said, hopefully Ossai has overcome his mental blockage and play like he did towards the end of 22

100% agree with you on that.

Battle and Hill were going to have growing pains.
It's hard going from such upper-tier safeties in Bates and Bell and expect near-same performance from two first-time guys.
I like what I saw from both new guys overall though, they just need to build on that.

Murphy too should get more utilization in 2024.
3.0 sacks on just 165 pass rush reps last season.
For comparison, Hubbard had 6.0 sacks on 409 pass rush reps last year.
I think Murphy's floor will be Hubbard-caliber pass rusher.