We have leader for RT in free agency....

[The D.O.Z.]

It makes sense to sign Elumeanor. We could probably sign him to a two year deal AND draft his heir apparent at pick 18. I know people want a Day 1 Starter in R1 but getting a guy NOW, in this supposedly deep OT class would be the smart play, in my opinion. Plan for injuries and plan for the future. Say we sign Elumeanor.. we're one injury away from D'Ante Smith / Jackson *Charmin* playing meaningful snaps on a SB contender. I'd MUCH prefer a high pedigree 1Rd draft pick stepping in at that point.

[Clark W Griswold]

I would still like to get a rookie in the first round who can start at RT and continue to get better. Adding this guy from the Raiders doesn’t make the O line that much better and they need to make the line good not just good enough.
I think there will be a guy there at 18 who can start and be good (or maybe I’m just hoping) right away. Would love to see them address DT (Madubuike) in FA if they are going to spend $.

That video was just some dumb kid who knows nothing. Obviously a Herbert fan based on the hair style.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2024, 03:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: Another factor (one folks will kill me for), is do they have enough confidence in Smith or Carman to start at RT at least part of the year while a draft pick develops?

No one should kill you for it, as it's just asking a question that the team might be asking themselves.
We don't know what the staff is thinking, but it is possible (although maybe not probable) that they think Carman/Smith could hold down the fort to start the year while a draft pick develops.

I'm not personally confident in that being the case given both guys have been in the league for 3 full seasons and neither has gotten a starting gig yet.
Carman has shown more promise in his career to-date to start over Smith, at least IMO.
With that said, I don't think Carman belongs on the right side of the line.
Smith just seems to get manhandled far too often, even after 3 full years of NFL development.

Carman played just 12 snaps on offense last year, all at LT.
Smith didn't see the field.
Cody Ford saw more action than both of them, 18 snaps at LT, 21 at RG, and 38 as an extra lineman on the outside.

[jj22]

(02-07-2024, 03:37 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Quality starting rookies at OT are usually found in the Top 15 picks, not even the entire 1st round.  Hoping to find a starter in round 2 is risky, expecting a starter any round after that should be considered grounds for firing.  There are always some exceptions, a player goes to the right team with the right oline coach..... but we are far from that.


As I said before, address EVERY starting need in free agency.  Also in free agency address clear depth needs with cheap vets that could be replaced by a rookie or an ascending practice squad player.  

This allows BPA to be taken in every round, this is how solid rosters top to bottom are built.

I'm for bpa, I'm just not sold this FA period will be what people think it will be. I think the philosophy is shifting back to the pre Zac days. Not sure, but I remember how they start saving cap after signing Dalton (even though they never re-signed the people they were saving cap for 3 years in advance).

Worried people are setting themselves up for disappointment. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2024, 04:06 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: It makes sense to sign Elumeanor. We could probably sign him to a two year deal AND draft his heir apparent at pick 18. I know people want a Day 1 Starter in R1 but getting a guy NOW, in this supposedly deep OT class would be the smart play, in my opinion. Plan for injuries and plan for the future. Say we sign Elumeanor.. we're one injury away from D'Ante Smith / Jackson *Charmin* playing meaningful snaps on a SB contender. I'd MUCH prefer a high pedigree 1Rd draft pick stepping in at that point.

Smith is more soft than Carman.
Carman has at least shown on multiple occasions that he doesn't get bullied at the LOS.
Smith has been extremely disappointing.

[casear2727]

(02-07-2024, 03:42 PM)tms Wrote: I wouldn't mind Eluemunor. Steady option. I'd rather someone like Onwenu, tho. Arguably more upside and he might even come cheaper.

I'm also a wee bit weary of Raiders this year. Not saying the McDaniels saga was their fault- I have no idea what happened- but if you come from a dysfunctional (mutinous?) culture like that, whether you're directly involved or not, I just figure it takes awhile for the residue to wear off. We see ourselves as a SB contender and intangibles are everything. Just my 2c.

I believe Onwenu is expected to make much more than Eluemunor.  Onwenu can play guard and tackle, has had excellent grades at both spots and is only 26 years old.   

[casear2727]

(02-07-2024, 04:09 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I would still like to get a rookie in the first round who can start at RT and continue to get better. Adding this guy from the Raiders doesn’t make the O line that much better and they need to make the line good not just good enough.  
I think there  will be a guy there at 18 who can start and be good (or maybe I’m just hoping) right away. Would love to see them address DT (Madubuike) in FA if they are going to spend $.

That video was just some dumb kid who knows nothing. Obviously a Herbert fan based on the hair style.

I do not understand this thought process though.  Everyone banging the table that oline is so important to protect Burrow and have a decent run game, and yet the answer is to put all of our eggs in a mid round rookie?  That is such an unnecessary risk.   We can easily sign a guy like Eluemunor AND draft a kid like Mims at 18.   If Mims is ready to go he takes the spot, if not we have a serviceable veteran.  Why in the world would we take such an unnecessary risk?  Unless maybe you believe Smith or Carman will suffice in the event the rookie doesnt pan out?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2024, 04:46 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I believe Onwenu is expected to make much more than Eluemunor.  Onwenu can play guard and tackle, has had excellent grades at both spots and is only 26 years old.   

FWIW, Spotrac has Onwenu's estimated value at $13.6 mill AAV.
That might be too high for what the Bengals would be looking to spend at RT.

[casear2727]

(02-07-2024, 04:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FWIW, Spotrac has Onwenu's estimated value at $13.6 mill AAV.
That might be too high for what the Bengals would be looking to spend at RT.

PFF has:
Onwenu at 4 yrs 14.5M per year
Eluemunor at 2 yrs 7.25M per year

edited to add "per year" to avoid confusion.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2024, 04:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I do not understand this thought process though.  Everyone banging the table that oline is so important to protect Burrow and have a decent run game, and yet the answer is to put all of our eggs in a mid round rookie?  That is such an unnecessary risk.   We can easily sign a guy like Eluemunor AND draft a kid like Mims at 18.   If Mims is ready to go he takes the spot, if not we have a serviceable veteran.  Why in the world would we take such an unnecessary risk?  Unless maybe you believe Smith or Carman will suffice in the event the rookie doesnt pan out?

Depends on the cost, for me.

Bengals brought in Nick Scott at 3 years, $12 mill ($4 mill APY), only for him to get supplanted by a 3rd round rookie.
That essentially became wasted money that could have gone toward another position.

Eluemunor just played on a $3 mill contract.
You ok with spending $3-6 mill APY for someone to potentially ride the bench for a year or two?
Or if the 18th pick doesn't actually start their first year or two, are you ok with a 1st rounder playing very little to no snaps their first year or two?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2024, 04:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: PFF has:
Onwenu at 4 yrs 14.5M
Eluemunor at 2 yrs 7.25M

Is that per year, or total across the years?

[JoeyB2023]

(02-07-2024, 02:46 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Drafting early based on position of need is a horrible, horrible strategy. It's what causes teams to reach ala Billy Price. 

We need to sure up our needs before the draft and take BPA like last year. Sign a quality DT, OT, and CB in free agency. 

Bengals go ragnow if the lions don’t do it right before em and then going early in position of need works out to a All pro. Just saying

[jj22]

I think it definitely depends on the cost. 3-5 million wouldn't stop them from drafting a rookie. So I wouldn't be against that. I wouldn't be against any RT signing, but if it was that and no more room for CB, TE, DT, FS, then I'd rather just draft one, and spread the money out on positions the draft isn't strong at (TE, FS)

[casear2727]

(02-07-2024, 04:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Depends on the cost, for me.

Bengals brought in Nick Scott at 3 years, $12 mill ($4 mill APY), only for him to get supplanted by a 3rd round rookie.
That essentially became wasted money that could have gone toward another position.

Eluemunor just played on a $3 mill contract.
You ok with spending $3-6 mill APY for someone to potentially ride the bench for a year or two?
Or if the 18th pick doesn't actually start their first year or two, are you ok with a 1st rounder playing very little to no snaps their first year or two?

(02-07-2024, 04:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Is that per year, or total across the years?

I am absolutely ok with spending whatever it takes to ensure the oline is solid. I will never complain that we overspent out of caution to improve the oline. A rookie is a big risk, but I absolutely would love to draft one. We can easily do what we did with Scott, which is give the guaranteed money in the signing bonus and the vet be a cut option the next year. Having rookies excel, regardless of their draft round is the ultimate luxury for every team. They are younger and cheaper.

PFF numbers are avg/yr

[007BengalsFan]

The Bengals should have traded Jonah last year and signed Eluemunor like many of us were saying. They missed that opportunity to get something of value for Jonah, having more cap space and already having Eluemunor on the roster. They messed that up like they messed up the Tee situation.

If they can get Eluemunor at 2 yrs 7.25 million, they should do it. That would ensure the team had a capable RT and allow more flexibility in the draft.

[casear2727]

(02-07-2024, 05:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think it definitely depends on the cost. 3-5 million wouldn't stop them from drafting a rookie. So I wouldn't be against that. I wouldn't be against any RT signing, but if it was that and no more room for CB, TE, DT, FS, then I'd rather just draft one, and spread the money out on positions the draft isn't strong at (TE, FS)

Bengals drafted Dax even though Bates was making 13.5M.  I think fans put waaaay too much emphasis on a rookie's immediate impact.  NFL teams do not, because rookies rarely shine out their 1st year, especially those not drafted in the upper third of the 1st round.

[casear2727]

(02-07-2024, 05:06 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The Bengals should have traded Jonah last year and signed Eluemunor like many of us were saying.  They missed that opportunity to get something of value for Jonah, having more cap space and already having Eluemunor on the roster.   They messed that up like they messed up the Tee situation.  

If they can get Eluemunor at 2 yrs 7.25 million, they should do it.  That would ensure the team had a capable RT and allow more flexibility in the draft.

Just to clarify, Eluemunor's projection of 7.25 is per year.  The thin OT free agent market likely drives up the prices.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-07-2024, 04:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Depends on the cost, for me.

Bengals brought in Nick Scott at 3 years, $12 mill ($4 mill APY), only for him to get supplanted by a 3rd round rookie.
That essentially became wasted money that could have gone toward another position.

Eluemunor just played on a $3 mill contract.
You ok with spending $3-6 mill APY for someone to potentially ride the bench for a year or two?
Or if the 18th pick doesn't actually start their first year or two, are you ok with a 1st rounder playing very little to no snaps their first year or two?

If your rookie pans out, you still have quality depth in case of an injury.

[Whatever]

(02-07-2024, 05:02 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: Bengals go ragnow if the lions don’t do it right before em and then going early in position of need works out to a All pro.  Just saying

But that's the problem.  You can't plan your draft based on need thinking Player X will be there at Pick Y unless you're drafting in the first 5 or do picks.  If you do, the guy you're counting on likely won't be there.  The only way this somewhat works is if there's a large group of prospects that you have similar grades on that you have projected to go around that spot, but that will vary from team to team.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-07-2024, 05:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Just to clarify, Eluemunor's projection of 7.25 is per year.  The thin OT free agent market likely drives up the prices.

Yes, I understood that.  It is still half of what would be paid to Onwenu or even Jonah. I like Onwenu more but not at 14.5 million