Newton or sweat?

[J24]

(02-05-2024, 05:11 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: I think the value is way higher taking sweat in the second as opposed to taking newton at 18.  I like sweat better.  Would really like the bengals to trade back from 18 and move up a bit in the second.
If they could grab either JC, Mimms or Kingsley in the first and comeback with sweat in the second…woah.

Newton- Pass rush and penetration in the running game kills offenses!

[Jpoore]

(02-05-2024, 03:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Another way to look at it Most teams on average pass on 1st down so another way to look at it so if you have your run stuffer on 1st down i think it matters less anyway... if you don;t stop the pass on 1st down then you are playing from behind anyway. Also if they feel Newton reminds them of Atkins, Geno stopped the run well also by beating the Oline on the snap... My biggest worry with Sweat is he sounds like he will be off the field a decent amount with his size and conditioning, not sure if i want to invest a #1 in that type of player

He played 503 snaps last year… conditioning will play a big part as will if he playing at 364 or 346? Regardless if you draft aNT in rd1 you believ they’re gonna be a vita vea impact

(02-05-2024, 03:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: A 3 down player is always going to be more important than a 2 down player.  That's what most of the 2 gap NT's are now.  

In the salary cap era, you simply can't be great at everything.  You're going to have to prioritize resources.  

If you draft a NT rd1- they have be a 3 down
[quote='SunsetBengal' pid='1454345' dateline='1707158347']

I agree, I wouldn't take Sweat in the first round, either.  I saw the question as an either/or to which player was needed more, not as "who do you take at #18".
[/quote
Would be fine with sweat in anything after 24-25

[007BengalsFan]

(02-05-2024, 12:15 PM)3wt Wrote: I think the DL depth is better than the OL depth.  And we need both a RT and (I think) and improved IOL - at least for depth.  But players like Barton and Powers-Johnson are very tempting guys in addition to the RT candidates.

The interior DL depth isnt good at all.  You would have BJ Hill and either Jay Tufele or Zach Cater as starters with Travis Bell as your 4th option.  That is a pretty bad interior defensive line.  While Hill is above average the rest of those guys are not.  You also have to consider Hill and Tufele are in the last year of their contract.  The Bengals need to add a couple of good interior Defensive linemen.

[TKUHL]

Why not both? I have both available 1st Newton 2nd round Sweat on 90% of the mocks I do. Several mocks I have us going just that. No dickin around with the D line. We have to have a stronger Dline that can stop the run to even be able to compete with the other teams in the AFCN. Wouldn’t be mad if we used every damn pick on OL/DL and maybe if they find a decent TE in the draft, grab them too.

[Whatever]

(02-06-2024, 12:21 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Why not both? I have both available 1st Newton 2nd round Sweat on 90% of the mocks I do. Several mocks I have us going just that. No dickin around with the D line. We have to have a stronger Dline that can stop the run to even be able to compete with the other teams in the AFCN. Wouldn’t be mad if we used every damn pick on OL/DL and maybe if they find a decent TE in the draft, grab them too.

Because of other needs.  

Jonah is a FA, is underwhelming, and will cost too much to resign.  RT must be addressed and it's a bad FA T group.  So we're going to have to be locked in on taking one of the Top 10-11 OT's in the first two rounds.  

Boyd will be gone, Higgins most likely FT'ed, and the current WR3 is Irwin, who will also be a UFA in '25.  If their pattern holds true, WR will be drafted in the first or second.

Our #3-4 LB's are UFA's, so cheap depth is needed there.

Awuzie is an UFA, so unless they sign a vet CB, CB depth will need to be added.  

Mixon is washed, Brown is horribly inconsistent, Evans sucks, and Williams is an UFA, so they need RB depth at minimum, preferably a new starter.  

They want Reader back and his quad injury just dropped his price, so hypothetically they only need a guy to rotate, which doesn't have to be Day 1 or 2.  

[SunsetBengal]

(02-06-2024, 01:27 AM)Whatever Wrote: Because of other needs.  

Jonah is a FA, is underwhelming, and will cost too much to resign.  RT must be addressed and it's a bad FA T group.  So we're going to have to be locked in on taking one of the Top 10-11 OT's in the first two rounds.  

Boyd will be gone, Higgins most likely FT'ed, and the current WR3 is Irwin, who will also be a UFA in '25.  If their pattern holds true, WR will be drafted in the first or second.

Our #3-4 LB's are UFA's, so cheap depth is needed there.

Awuzie is an UFA, so unless they sign a vet CB, CB depth will need to be added.  

Mixon is washed, Brown is horribly inconsistent, Evans sucks, and Williams is an UFA, so they need RB depth at minimum, preferably a new starter.  

They want Reader back and his quad injury just dropped his price, so hypothetically they only need a guy to rotate, which doesn't have to be Day 1 or 2.  

I agree that there are other needs to cover.  However, even if DJ Reader is re-signed at an affordable price, and he makes as good of a recovery as he did on the first leg, he still won't likely be ready for real game action until late in the season due to the injury occurring so late in this past season.  So, you still need a starting caliber NT to cover the first 12-15 weeks of the season.

[JoeyB2023]

(02-05-2024, 06:38 PM)J24 Wrote: Newton- Pass rush and penetration in the running game kills offenses!

Agreed but I highlighted “value” as the reason I went with sweat because between the two I don’t see much of a drop off so if u can get a top tackle in 1 and sweat in two that is way more valuable than Newton in 1 and praying the bengals don’t blow another offensive lineman pick in the second. No thanks. Again the value bruh.

[3wt]

(02-05-2024, 10:24 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The interior DL depth isnt good at all.  You would have BJ Hill and either Jay Tufele or Zach Cater as starters with Travis Bell as your 4th option.  That is a pretty bad interior defensive line.  While Hill is above average the rest of those guys are not.  You also have to consider Hill and Tufele are in the last year of their contract.  The Bengals need to add a couple of good interior Defensive linemen.

My apologies.   I meant the depth in the draft not on our team.   I agree that the depth on our team is not good.

[Whatever]

(02-06-2024, 09:53 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree that there are other needs to cover.  However, even if DJ Reader is re-signed at an affordable price, and he makes as good of a recovery as he did on the first leg, he still won't likely be ready for real game action until late in the season due to the injury occurring so late in this past season.  So, you still need a starting caliber NT to cover the first 12-15 weeks of the season.

The Reader situation will have to be monitored.  How they deal with him and FA will be a telling sign.  If he's expected to miss significant time, I can see them signing a stop-gap vet on a one-year deal to cover for, then rotate with him.  I can't see him getting a multi-year deal and them drafting a NT day 1 or 2 to rotate.  

[SunsetBengal]

(02-06-2024, 01:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Reader situation will have to be monitored.  How they deal with him and FA will be a telling sign.  If he's expected to miss significant time, I can see them signing a stop-gap vet on a one-year deal to cover for, then rotate with him.  I can't see him getting a multi-year deal and them drafting a NT day 1 or 2 to rotate.  

After this year's dismal performance in stopping the run, I have a sneaking suspicion that will be a focal point for the Defense this offseason.  If this team has genuine Superbowl aspirations, they're going to have to field a Championship level defense.  A "stop-gap" level player while they hope and wait for a full recovery and return to form from DJ Reader just isn't going to cut it.  They need a top level NT through the draft, and a competent veteran to shoulder the load while Reader gets back to his self.  I have a feeling that the secondary performance will be much improved with the young players getting settled into their roles and the communication becomes more natural.

[Whatever]

(02-06-2024, 01:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: After this year's dismal performance in stopping the run, I have a sneaking suspicion that will be a focal point for the Defense this offseason.  If this team has genuine Superbowl aspirations, they're going to have to field a Championship level defense.  A "stop-gap" level player while they hope and wait for a full recovery and return to form from DJ Reader just isn't going to cut it.  They need a top level NT through the draft, and a competent veteran to shoulder the load while Reader gets back to his self.  I have a feeling that the secondary performance will be much improved with the young players getting settled into their roles and the communication becomes more natural.

I don't think they see it that way.

They were 5th in '22 in Rush Defense and 10th in Rush Yards Allowed/Carry with the same front four and the same LB's.  They were 7th in rush D in '21 with Hill splitting time with Larry O.  I don't see them thinking the front 7(really front 6), is the issue.  Lou did discuss the youth movement in the secondary and said communication issues really negatively impacted the LB play, which I what I think they see as the culprit, there.

Pass Rush, on the other hand, had been consistently bottom third of the league with this group, so I think that if DL are added in the draft, it will likely be geared more towards addressing that than the run game.

[Stewy]

(02-04-2024, 01:55 PM)Synric Wrote: T'Vondre Sweat looked alot better day 2 and 3 of the Senior Bowl but it was just more tape confirmation. Testing is what will drag Swest into the first round or keep him around that early day 2 guy. I don't think he will test as well has his nfl comparisons Vita Vea and Haloti Ngata. It feels like 50/50 odds he will test at all other than bench.

His tape, attitude and personality is what will drag him into the 1st round.  I watched every Texas game.  He was a constant disruptor in the pass and run game. often laughing off double teams.  He will not be there in the 2nd round for us.  He's going to go 20-30 easily.

[JoeyB2023]

(02-06-2024, 02:48 PM)Stewy Wrote: His tape, attitude and personality is what will drag him into the 1st round.  I watched every Texas game.  He was a constant disruptor in the pass and run game. often laughing off double teams.  He will not be there in the 2nd round for us.  He's going to go 20-30 easily.

Yea it’s starting to look that way. I like the idea of the bengals possibly moving back to the mid 20s if they can move up in the second to grab Kingsley or guyton if they go sweat mid 20s

[Essex Johnson]

(02-06-2024, 12:21 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Why not both? I have both available 1st Newton 2nd round Sweat on 90% of the mocks I do. Several mocks I have us going just that. No dickin around with the D line. We have to have a stronger Dline that can stop the run to even be able to compete with the other teams in the AFCN. Wouldn’t be mad if we used every damn pick on OL/DL and maybe if they find a decent TE in the draft, grab them too.

Im reading more and more after Senior bowl... Sweat is 1st round, high 2nd round.. I think it also depends on FA first.. what Bengals do there is going to impact picks especially 1 to 3 round

[DYT_Bengal]

I have three things to say:
(1) Sweat compares to Terrance Cody. We don't play a 3-4 so I'm not sure we need that type of player. As a later pick, maybe.
(2) Newton played DE in a 3-4. He looks more polished as a pass rusher than Murphy and consistently made plays using superior technique but got pushed around a bit in the running game.
(3) Murphy was constantly double-teamed and did better against the run. He still looks impressive as a pass rusher.

I doubt Newton is still at 18, but I think a lot here are looking more for highlights when DT isn't a really pretty position to watch. My vote is Murphy and wouldn't mind trading up to get him. Unless you want to pay Chris Jones 30M.

[*bfine32*]

I'm terrible at "scouting" DTs and haven't really gotten one right since Geno Smith. WTS, Sweat scares me because he didn't weigh in at the Senior Bowl and Newton seems small. By the spirit of the OP. if I had to choose 1 it would be Sweat. But ask me I'd take Tim Krumrie...Branden Fiske in the 3rd...

[Whatever]

(02-07-2024, 12:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm terrible at "scouting" DTs and haven't really gotten one right since Geno Smith. WTS, Sweat scares me because he didn't weigh in at the Senior Bowl and Newton seems small. By the spirit of the OP. if I had to choose 1 it would be Sweat. But ask me I'd take Tim Krumrie...Branden Fiske in the 3rd...

Kingpin has definitely boosted his stock.  I'm also surprised I don't see any love for Darius Robinson after he wrecked just about everyone at the Senior Bowl.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Newton all the way.
Every so often players come from certain teams that get alot of hype and then flop in the NFL, Texas is one of those teams.
While I like Sweat, I'm just cautious about UT's past, they are a party college and it seems like their players aren't as disciplined as they should be for a career in the NFL. Sweat coming into the SR bowl over weight and not allowing himself to be weighed is a red flag to me. Other than their RB's, i usually prefer to pass on them.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-07-2024, 10:30 AM)Whatever Wrote: Kingpin has definitely boosted his stock.  I'm also surprised I don't see any love for Darius Robinson after he wrecked just about everyone at the Senior Bowl.

I would take Robinson in a heartbeat.   SEC guy that had 8.5 sacks this year, a forced fumble.   He is being compared to JJ Watt.


https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-2024-nfl-draft-scouting-report-missouri-edge-dl-darius-robinson/

[*bfine32*]

(02-07-2024, 10:30 AM)Whatever Wrote: Kingpin has definitely boosted his stock.  I'm also surprised I don't see any love for Darius Robinson after he wrecked just about everyone at the Senior Bowl.

No doubt dude was great, but I see him more as a 5-Tech. Absolutely no issue with taking him (perhaps do the unpopular thing of releasing Hubard), but he does little for our DT need